Not questioning any of that, but if you're giving them hundreds to tens of hundreds of millions of dollars in tax breaks, who is benefiting?addxb2 wrote: ↑4:28 PM - Feb 25For rural communities, data centers are no brainers. One data center could double revenue. Really gives them an opportunity to increase the quality of life in a way not typically possible.
The data centers also do a decent job at plotting out industrial business parks. A rural community could get new streets and infrastructure that support other projects.
But that's how taxes work - it's not a la carte. I've never had to call the police or fire department in my 20 years of paying rent/mortgage but I still understand the benefit those tax dollars provide.addxb2 wrote: ↑4:54 PM - Feb 25Generally, I agree. I don’t think incentives should be offered but if (community name) doesn’t offer them then (community name) will.
I think those who are pro-data centers and economic development would argue that the property tax systems shouldn’t apply to buildings with this much capital and infrastructure. Especially when they typically don’t include too much pressure to schools or emergency services.
We need a binding moratorium on the regional tax incentive race to bottom. I know that won't happen, so would gladly see the City just give up on playing this game with data center development, regardless of whatever pie-in-the-sky benefits they promise.addxb2 wrote: ↑4:54 PM - Feb 25Generally, I agree. I don’t think incentives should be offered but if (community name) doesn’t offer them then (community name) will.
I think those who are pro-data centers and economic development would argue that the property tax systems shouldn’t apply to buildings with this much capital and infrastructure. Especially when they typically don’t include too much pressure to schools or emergency services.
These data centers should be in the city, in brownfield sites like the North Riverfront. Not greenfields in the exurbs of the metro. We don’t know exactly what the future will bring with data centers but St. Louis can’t really afford to miss out on what appears to be the infrastructure powering the future.SB in BH wrote:We need a binding moratorium on the regional tax incentive race to bottom. I know that won't happen, so would gladly see the City just give up on playing this game with data center development, regardless of whatever pie-in-the-sky benefits they promise.addxb2 wrote: ↑4:54 PM - Feb 25Generally, I agree. I don’t think incentives should be offered but if (community name) doesn’t offer them then (community name) will.
I think those who are pro-data centers and economic development would argue that the property tax systems shouldn’t apply to buildings with this much capital and infrastructure. Especially when they typically don’t include too much pressure to schools or emergency services.
Those who are pro-data center and economic development would (and often do) argue that they shouldn't have to pay any taxes at all and society should bear all of the external costs of their operation and/or failure from here to eternity. I give them zero credence.
A Land Value Tax solves your "soooo much capital" problem.
This is all in the Step 3 - Profit section. How is building a dormant building a "serious investment"? Is this any different than a parking garage?STLcommenter wrote: ↑8:51 PM - Feb 25These data centers should be in the city, in brownfield sites like the North Riverfront. Not greenfields in the exurbs of the metro. We don’t know exactly what the future will bring with data centers but St. Louis can’t really afford to miss out on what appears to be the infrastructure powering the future.SB in BH wrote:We need a binding moratorium on the regional tax incentive race to bottom. I know that won't happen, so would gladly see the City just give up on playing this game with data center development, regardless of whatever pie-in-the-sky benefits they promise.addxb2 wrote: ↑4:54 PM - Feb 25Generally, I agree. I don’t think incentives should be offered but if (community name) doesn’t offer them then (community name) will.
I think those who are pro-data centers and economic development would argue that the property tax systems shouldn’t apply to buildings with this much capital and infrastructure. Especially when they typically don’t include too much pressure to schools or emergency services.
Those who are pro-data center and economic development would (and often do) argue that they shouldn't have to pay any taxes at all and society should bear all of the external costs of their operation and/or failure from here to eternity. I give them zero credence.
A Land Value Tax solves your "soooo much capital" problem.
I do agree the regional tax incentive competition is an issue, and we shouldn’t make bad deals for the city. Ideally the region would align around a few specific districts (like the North Riverfront) where infrastructure, power, and land make sense, and compete nationally instead of with each other.
If done right, this could mean cleaning up industrial land, strengthening the power grid, and bringing serious investment back into the urban core rather than pushing everything further out. It would be a shame to look back in 10–15 years and realize the AI economy passed St. Louis by and our decline has only accelerated.
I'm sure ***** data centers are gonna stop the decline lmaoSTLcommenter wrote:These data centers should be in the city, in brownfield sites like the North Riverfront. Not greenfields in the exurbs of the metro. We don’t know exactly what the future will bring with data centers but St. Louis can’t really afford to miss out on what appears to be the infrastructure powering the future.SB in BH wrote:We need a binding moratorium on the regional tax incentive race to bottom. I know that won't happen, so would gladly see the City just give up on playing this game with data center development, regardless of whatever pie-in-the-sky benefits they promise.addxb2 wrote: ↑4:54 PM - Feb 25Generally, I agree. I don’t think incentives should be offered but if (community name) doesn’t offer them then (community name) will.
I think those who are pro-data centers and economic development would argue that the property tax systems shouldn’t apply to buildings with this much capital and infrastructure. Especially when they typically don’t include too much pressure to schools or emergency services.
Those who are pro-data center and economic development would (and often do) argue that they shouldn't have to pay any taxes at all and society should bear all of the external costs of their operation and/or failure from here to eternity. I give them zero credence.
A Land Value Tax solves your "soooo much capital" problem.
I do agree the regional tax incentive competition is an issue, and we shouldn’t make bad deals for the city. Ideally the region would align around a few specific districts (like the North Riverfront) where infrastructure, power, and land make sense, and compete nationally instead of with each other.
If done right, this could mean cleaning up industrial land, strengthening the power grid, and bringing serious investment back into the urban core rather than pushing everything further out. It would be a shame to look back in 10–15 years and realize the AI economy passed St. Louis by and our decline has only accelerated.
Thanks for the insightful response Auggie. I’m sure having tens if not hundreds more millions in tax dollars every year would do nothing to help St. Louis.StlAlex wrote:I'm sure ***** data centers are gonna stop the decline lmaoSTLcommenter wrote:These data centers should be in the city, in brownfield sites like the North Riverfront. Not greenfields in the exurbs of the metro. We don’t know exactly what the future will bring with data centers but St. Louis can’t really afford to miss out on what appears to be the infrastructure powering the future.SB in BH wrote: We need a binding moratorium on the regional tax incentive race to bottom. I know that won't happen, so would gladly see the City just give up on playing this game with data center development, regardless of whatever pie-in-the-sky benefits they promise.
Those who are pro-data center and economic development would (and often do) argue that they shouldn't have to pay any taxes at all and society should bear all of the external costs of their operation and/or failure from here to eternity. I give them zero credence.
A Land Value Tax solves your "soooo much capital" problem.
I do agree the regional tax incentive competition is an issue, and we shouldn’t make bad deals for the city. Ideally the region would align around a few specific districts (like the North Riverfront) where infrastructure, power, and land make sense, and compete nationally instead of with each other.
If done right, this could mean cleaning up industrial land, strengthening the power grid, and bringing serious investment back into the urban core rather than pushing everything further out. It would be a shame to look back in 10–15 years and realize the AI economy passed St. Louis by and our decline has only accelerated.
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It isn’t really comparable to a parking garage. It may not have many employees, but it represents hundreds of millions in investment, and major upgrades to utilities and infrastructure. If we place them on underused industrial land, and expand the city’s tax base over time, that is a huge win. Even if we were to get other types of manufacturing facilities or factories on those sites instead, the job creation numbers might not be that different since many of those jobs will be automated as well.Bart Harley Jarvis wrote:This is all in the Step 3 - Profit section. How is building a dormant building a "serious investment"? Is this any different than a parking garage?STLcommenter wrote: ↑8:51 PM - Feb 25These data centers should be in the city, in brownfield sites like the North Riverfront. Not greenfields in the exurbs of the metro. We don’t know exactly what the future will bring with data centers but St. Louis can’t really afford to miss out on what appears to be the infrastructure powering the future.SB in BH wrote: We need a binding moratorium on the regional tax incentive race to bottom. I know that won't happen, so would gladly see the City just give up on playing this game with data center development, regardless of whatever pie-in-the-sky benefits they promise.
Those who are pro-data center and economic development would (and often do) argue that they shouldn't have to pay any taxes at all and society should bear all of the external costs of their operation and/or failure from here to eternity. I give them zero credence.
A Land Value Tax solves your "soooo much capital" problem.
I do agree the regional tax incentive competition is an issue, and we shouldn’t make bad deals for the city. Ideally the region would align around a few specific districts (like the North Riverfront) where infrastructure, power, and land make sense, and compete nationally instead of with each other.
If done right, this could mean cleaning up industrial land, strengthening the power grid, and bringing serious investment back into the urban core rather than pushing everything further out. It would be a shame to look back in 10–15 years and realize the AI economy passed St. Louis by and our decline has only accelerated.
Pretty much lmao. If the city were serious, they'd stop funding the state's police board and put that $150M towards actually helping rebuild North City.quincunx wrote:Sorry any new data center tax revenue will be going to the SLMPD apparently.
