urbanSTL

Is there a reason these need to be in urban centers? Developers spent years building subdivisions and offices out away from city centers which destroyed our cities and downtowns but now every developer wants to do data centers in the middle of major downtowns?

I’m just confused, I don’t get it

keepstlbrick wrote: ↑

3:36 PM - Mar 17

Is there a reason these need to be in urban centers? Developers spent years building subdivisions and offices out away from city centers which destroyed our cities and downtowns but now every developer wants to do data centers in the middle of major downtowns?

I’m just confused, I don’t get it

They are facing extreme NIMBY backlash pretty much everywhere they are trying to build them, but I imagine it is more manageable to get approval from big city officials desperate for any kind of development.

Ebsy wrote:

keepstlbrick wrote: ↑

3:36 PM - Mar 17

Is there a reason these need to be in urban centers? Developers spent years building subdivisions and offices out away from city centers which destroyed our cities and downtowns but now every developer wants to do data centers in the middle of major downtowns?

I’m just confused, I don’t get it

They are facing extreme NIMBY backlash pretty much everywhere they are trying to build them, but I imagine it is more manageable to get approval from big city officials desperate for any kind of development.

This site specifically because it’s close to a lot of existing fiber infrastructure, district heating and cooling systems, etc.

In other words, cities already have the infrastructure to accomadate them for the most part and if the government isn't willing to subsidize that infrastructure in a suburban/rural place, they will prefer the city.

Similarly, if the government didn't subsidize the suburbs, the suburbs wouldn't exist how they are today.

Interesting how Urban Theory just keeps popping back up.

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StlAlex wrote:In other words, cities already have the infrastructure to accomadate them for the most part and if the government isn't willing to subsidize that infrastructure in a suburban/rural place, they will prefer the city.

Similarly, if the government didn't subsidize the suburbs, the suburbs wouldn't exist how they are today.

Interesting how Urban Theory just keeps popping back up.

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Not quite. This is a small peanuts proposal by a first time data center builder who likes what they see on paper, not a hyper scaler putting up 5 million sqft.
Those energy and district heating / cooling resources don’t exist in sufficient quantities to support a traditional hyperscale project nor would the massive cost of building a 5 million sqft tower make sense.

ldai_phs wrote:

StlAlex wrote:In other words, cities already have the infrastructure to accomadate them for the most part and if the government isn't willing to subsidize that infrastructure in a suburban/rural place, they will prefer the city.

Similarly, if the government didn't subsidize the suburbs, the suburbs wouldn't exist how they are today.

Interesting how Urban Theory just keeps popping back up.

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Not quite. This is a small peanuts proposal by a first time data center builder who likes what they see on paper, not a hyper scaler putting up 5 million sqft.
Those energy and district heating / cooling resources don’t exist in sufficient quantities to support a traditional hyperscale project nor would the massive cost of building a 5 million sqft tower make sense.

Well none of it actually makes sense when you look at how much money AI makes, hence why NVDA has been flat for the last 7+ months. If we are talking rationally, none of these data center proposals make any sense whatsoever.

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Downtown Kansas City eyes tower boom with seven high-rise projects in the pipeline

[li]https://archive.ph/5QePA[/li]

Wow, quite the boom they are having downtown. Never thought I would see a city like KC hit these kind of strides


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Don't underestimate the affect a half dozen+ cranes has on the public psyche of an area. When Nashville started catching fire in the 2010s, the amount of cranes in/near downtown contributed to "the energy" that was non-insignificant in the towns rapid growth IMO. Kind of became a virtuous cycle. Now KC definitely does not have as many things going for it as Nashville, but I wouldn't be surprised to see KC arbitrarily blow up like Nashville or Austin one day.

chris fuller wrote:Downtown Kansas City eyes tower boom with seven high-rise projects in the pipeline

[li]https://archive.ph/5QePA[/li]

Let’s see how many actually get off the ground…it’s all vapor ware until then. Multiple of those proposals are by groups whoever either never developed or never developed a tower.


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I concur.
Let's be realistic.  The KC BJ is a lot more "optimistic and flamboyant" than the STL BJ in writing. 

None are really "redefining" (the KC BJ's favorite headline word).
None are very tall or considered "skyscrapers".
None are "approved" or "fully funded"

Here they are: 

4 light in the P&W District:
The timeline remains unknown and Cordish has not announced any updates . Has not broke ground.
https://www.bizjournals.com/kansascity/ ... rdish.html

800 Grand
Hotel and a 25-story residential tower, is planned for completion is planned for a phased delivery over five years between 2028 and 2029
It has not broken ground and was to in the second half of 2025.  The question is - what phase delivery is the tower in?

The Bellwether
Proposed not approved yet.  Only 12 stories and not *really* downtown
https://thekcpulse.com/2026/02/16/of-no ... returning/

Ninth and Central
This is a pie in the sky proposal - and if it comes to fruition, it is going to have to take awhile until new renderings and timeline. WHY? Because the developer *must* first redevelopment of the Poindexter and Centennial Buildings prior to building the a new tower.  It would be 24 stories.  The KC Biz Journal loves the word "redefining" as in this story as well. On Dec. 17 of last year, the city did not take up giving any new incentives for the project. The project is only supported by a $2.8 million investment from Kansas City’s Affordable Housing Trust Fund.  
https://www.kansascity.com/news/busines ... 63988.html

10th and Central
This is another strange proposal and the The KC BJ had a redaction the day after they reported in the BJ saying "The development assistance team application was updated to remove the address and project description. The development assistance team request also disappeared from the parcel viewer. The request is still active and hasn’t been withdrawn."  There are very few details or information on this proposal.

Encore
I like this design and at 33 stories - it would be nice. However, the developer plans to make phased contributions of $2 million to the city's Affordable Housing Trust Fund, making roughly 126 of the units affordable. EPC detailed the project early February at the Port KC meeting. The project is seeking bond authorization approval from the agency. Overland Park-based EPC Real Estate Group have never built a building - they are a real-estate management group. The Commerce Tower KC was rehabbed with the group onboard as the management team and completed in 2017 or 18 . Most of their projects are smaller suburban apartments and some urban in-fill. They have never solely built a building on their own. It will be interesting if they can pull off this beautiful design.
https://www.kshb.com/news/local-news/de ... y-missouri

matguy70 wrote:I concur.
Let's be realistic.  The KC BJ is a lot more "optimistic and flamboyant" than the STL BJ in writing. 

None are really "redefining" (the KC BJ's favorite headline word).
None are very tall or considered "skyscrapers".
None are "approved" or "fully funded"

Here they are: 

4 light in the P&W District:
The timeline remains unknown and Cordish has not announced any updates . Has not broke ground.
https://www.bizjournals.com/kansascity/ ... rdish.html

800 Grand
Hotel and a 25-story residential tower, is planned for completion is planned for a phased delivery over five years between 2028 and 2029
It has not broken ground and was to in the second half of 2025.  The question is - what phase delivery is the tower in?

The Bellwether
Proposed not approved yet.  Only 12 stories and not *really* downtown
https://thekcpulse.com/2026/02/16/of-no ... returning/

Ninth and Central
This is a pie in the sky proposal - and if it comes to fruition, it is going to have to take awhile until new renderings and timeline. WHY? Because the developer *must* first redevelopment of the Poindexter and Centennial Buildings prior to building the a new tower.  It would be 24 stories.  The KC Biz Journal loves the word "redefining" as in this story as well. On Dec. 17 of last year, the city did not take up giving any new incentives for the project. The project is only supported by a $2.8 million investment from Kansas City’s Affordable Housing Trust Fund.  
https://www.kansascity.com/news/busines ... 63988.html

10th and Central
This is another strange proposal and the The KC BJ had a redaction the day after they reported in the BJ saying "The development assistance team application was updated to remove the address and project description. The development assistance team request also disappeared from the parcel viewer. The request is still active and hasn’t been withdrawn."  There are very few details or information on this proposal.

Encore
I like this design and at 33 stories - it would be nice. However, the developer plans to make phased contributions of $2 million to the city's Affordable Housing Trust Fund, making roughly 126 of the units affordable. EPC detailed the project early February at the Port KC meeting. The project is seeking bond authorization approval from the agency. Overland Park-based EPC Real Estate Group have never built a building - they are a real-estate management group. The Commerce Tower KC was rehabbed with the group onboard as the management team and completed in 2017 or 18 . Most of their projects are smaller suburban apartments and some urban in-fill. They have never solely built a building on their own. It will be interesting if they can pull off this beautiful design.
https://www.kshb.com/news/local-news/de ... y-missouri

Some corrections / comments

Four Light: Development plan and incentives are approved. This should get going in the fall (per some Cordish)

Encore: Co-developed by EPC and VeLa. EPC is a developer-manager so much of what you see being managed on their website they also developed. They recently opened a 246 unit project at 3rd and Grand with Rockefeller and Copaken coming in for a portion of the equity. Vela has a few towers under construction / proposed and is led by the most senior non-Cordish family execs at Cordish Cos.

10th Central: Developer and SOM held a community design feedback meeting recently and released a concept drawing package. Not sure if it actually happens.

Bellwether: Development plan and incentives are approved and RM is considered a part of downtown. Developer is very experienced so I think this one does break ground in the next 18 months.

KC must really be ramping up it's PR machine because I've seen a lot of discourse on social media lately and people seem to make the assumption that KC is a better urban city than St. Louis. I don't  know where this narrative comes from. but I've seen it growing in social media circles. 

goat314 wrote:KC must really be ramping up it's PR machine because I've seen a lot of discourse on social media lately and people seem to make the assumption that KC is a better urban city than St. Louis. I don't  know where this narrative comes from. but I've seen it growing in social media circles. 

The Chief’s NFL run bringing people to town + KC having a smaller but more unified urban core. STL’s is bigger but broken up into disjointed pockets.

goat314 wrote:KC must really be ramping up it's PR machine because I've seen a lot of discourse on social media lately and people seem to make the assumption that KC is a better urban city than St. Louis. I don't  know where this narrative comes from. but I've seen it growing in social media circles. 

I saw someone recently say KC deserves consideration for an NBA team over STL because it's a "bigger city."

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StlAlex wrote:

goat314 wrote:KC must really be ramping up it's PR machine because I've seen a lot of discourse on social media lately and people seem to make the assumption that KC is a better urban city than St. Louis. I don't  know where this narrative comes from. but I've seen it growing in social media circles. 

I saw someone recently say KC deserves consideration for an NBA team over STL because it's a "bigger city."

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More like saying St.Louis deserves a NBA team because it’s a better sports town which it truly is….


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goat314 wrote: ↑

3:56 PM - Mar 30

KC must really be ramping up it's PR machine because I've seen a lot of discourse on social media lately and people seem to make the assumption that KC is a better urban city than St. Louis. I don't  know where this narrative comes from. but I've seen it growing in social media circles. 

I think what ldai_phs said weighs into it.  Having a good NFL team will make a city appear cooler to online younger people who follow sports. The NFL is such a dominant cultural force in the US, people just hear/read "Kansas City" a good amount.

At the same time, I get the sense that, compared to STL, KC residents are (sometimes very very naively) beyond proud of their city and it's reflected in the local biz journal coverage. As a specific example, sure, KC is growing faster than STL *right now,* but KC will never rise in the MSA rankings again. KC people seemingly paint that meager growth as a huge win, when in reality KC (like all rustbelt/midwest metros) is badly losing national clout.

In STL, our city peaked a century ago and we're mostly bitter/cynical about it.  LOL.  That attitude is reflected in the way the STL Biz Journal does local journalism in which negative news drives clicks.  So, the STLBJ can't write enough stories about downtown STL's challenges/failures.

As far as these KC towers go?  I'd bet fewer than 1/2 happen. (and from my apartment window, I can see cranes for both the Cardinal Glennon tower and Albion)

soulardx wrote: ↑

5:34 PM - Mar 30

goat314 wrote: ↑

3:56 PM - Mar 30

KC must really be ramping up it's PR machine because I've seen a lot of discourse on social media lately and people seem to make the assumption that KC is a better urban city than St. Louis. I don't  know where this narrative comes from. but I've seen it growing in social media circles. 

I think what ldai_phs said weighs into it.  Having a good NFL team will make a city appear cooler to online younger people who follow sports. The NFL is such a dominant cultural force in the US, people just hear/read "Kansas City" a good amount.

At the same time, I get the sense that, compared to STL, KC residents are (sometimes very very naively) beyond proud of their city and it's reflected in the local biz journal coverage. As a specific example, sure, KC is growing faster than STL *right now,* but KC will never rise in the MSA rankings again. KC people seemingly paint that meager growth as a huge win, when in reality KC (like all rustbelt/midwest metros) is badly losing national clout.

In STL, our city peaked a century ago and we're mostly bitter/cynical about it.  LOL.  That attitude is reflected in the way the STL Biz Journal does local journalism in which negative news drives clicks.  So, the STLBJ can't write enough stories about downtown STL's challenges/failures.

As far as these KC towers go?  I'd bet fewer than 1/2 happen. (and from my apartment window, I can see cranes for both the Cardinal Glennon tower and Albion)

I am working on a redevelopment project in St. Louis.  Partner on the project is from KC.  He is blown away by our neighborhoods.  He said KC doesn't have anything like the CWE and our South side neighborhoods.  

CWE & South STL are still pretty much what’s left of what St.Louis once was & prime example of what St.Louis can be sadly North St.Louis is an apocalyptic failure. Maybe I’m wrong but the only way St.Louis will ever gain population growth lies within North St.Louis. There needs to be a concerted effort in a complete rebuild of all of north St.Louis including infrastructure. If there’s a real way of saving St.Louis it really starts with North St.Louis. KC is a nice city & region they don’t have what StL has & it’s not comparable not in a negative way. Several things I do love about KC is the plaza area is beautiful & I hope that they can get that area stable also crossroads is a pretty nice as well they have a wonderful union station the BBQ is very good the city remains intact as well they have the upper hand & will continue to until St.Louis can get out of it’s self imploding way. Both cities are underrated however I’ll give the edge to St.Louis being more underrated.


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Why was the KC streetcar shut down during the No Kings rally on Saturday? 
https://twitter.com/KCStarOpinion/status/2038728677018509608

BarryGlick wrote:Why was the KC streetcar shut down during the No Kings rally on Saturday? 
https://twitter.com/KCStarOpinion/status/2038728677018509608

Police Department safety request?