A Downtown-Midtown-CWE streetcar with future extensions north up Kings Highway and south to Soulard or tower grove park would be pretty interesting. Conceivably, downtown to CWE could be paid for with a TDD and the N/S extensions with an amended city sales tax.keepstlbrick wrote:https://usa.streetsblog.org/2026/02/25/ ... -streetcar
Already getting the next expansion started. This is forward thinking
The vision in KC right now under the same state leadership we complain about and blame for our holdbacks is light years ahead of what we have right now in StL. Let’s cancel our transit project and watch the city across the state build.
It’s just sad
1) The Green Line is closer to reality than this.keepstlbrick wrote:https://usa.streetsblog.org/2026/02/25/ ... -streetcar
Already getting the next expansion started. This is forward thinking
The vision in KC right now under the same state leadership we complain about and blame for our holdbacks is light years ahead of what we have right now in StL. Let’s cancel our transit project and watch the city across the state build.
It’s just sad
2) St. Louis would be much better off if it was part of a county and was 300+ square miles, no one denies that.
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"The vision in KC right now under the same state leadership we complain about and blame for our holdbacks is light years ahead of what we have right now in StL"
Ummm seriously. That is a bit dramatic.
I hate these modern Streetcars to be honest with you. They are slow. They are so slow. I can ride a bike faster to get somewhere.
KC being "Light years ahead" is ridiculous.
Even after with the new expansion on the original line:
TOTAL MILES: 5.7 miles
AVERAGE TIME: Moves with vehicle traffic speeds (20 to 40mph), take 30 to 40 minutes to go 5.7 miles. (an average healthy person can walk 5 miles in 1 hour 15 minutes - Biking 5 miles typically takes 20 to 35 minutes for a moderate, steady pace (around 10–15 mph).
STOPS: every 1 min and 42 seconds.
Took 12 years to get to 5.7 miles.
These things are so painfully slow... but if you have time and / or no bus option (because KCTA removed the direct bus)... this is all you got.
COST TO RIDE: Free. If KC charged 2.00 ome way... the ride would lose half of its ridership for sure.
....
Then there is STL that has had a viable and real mass transit system for 33 years. All right away, fast, and quick headways. Expanded the Red Line two times ( three this summer with STL MidAmerca extension). Has underground subways/stations in the downtown cooridor. Connects 2 terminals at Lambert STL International to the city and this summer will connect both STL Airports with rail.
The systems three counties and two states. The Blue Line kept the original Red Line structure (no street running) right away, high level platforms, fast service, built primarily elevated and in subways (including a new 5 miles of underground subway stations and new underground tunnels (one from Big Bend Station to Forsyth is 2.5 miles long itself). In 2025, Turnstiles and security upgrades have boosted boardings by 15% at 11 key stations. Impact of Security: High-traffic stations like Forest Park-DeBaliviere saw a ~56% increase in ridership as of May 2025. Usage: 84% of users rely on the system for commuting to work with nearly 70,000 riders daily and growing since Covid.
The Green Line (if done with LRT) would be right away with no traffic running and priority signals.
STLians are spoiled with Metro. The system was built like heavy rail and commuter system. When STL planned the Metro in the 80s, LRT was not really utilized in the USA. The concept planners used what urban metro planners in other North American systems - heavy rail mass transit. What STL ended up with is far beyond what any LRT system in the USA has. When planning the Blue Line, Metro knew that, in order to keep the system cohesive (but also a modern mass transit system that STLians expected) they would need to spend a lot of money... and they did. But what was built for the Blue Line is amazing and beautiful. I remember reading an article in the newspaper years in the 80's when planners were designing Metro, one was quoted saying (paraphrasing) "St. Louisans won't ride a train into the city unless it is fast and convenient" Went on to say "the subway stations in downtown must be inviting and bright or they will not go underground to take a train."
They did an amazing job and personally ai think we are so lucky in our city to have metro built right.
Again, this idea or notion that KC is way ahead of STL in mass transit is a joke.
Ummm seriously. That is a bit dramatic.
I hate these modern Streetcars to be honest with you. They are slow. They are so slow. I can ride a bike faster to get somewhere.
KC being "Light years ahead" is ridiculous.
Even after with the new expansion on the original line:
TOTAL MILES: 5.7 miles
AVERAGE TIME: Moves with vehicle traffic speeds (20 to 40mph), take 30 to 40 minutes to go 5.7 miles. (an average healthy person can walk 5 miles in 1 hour 15 minutes - Biking 5 miles typically takes 20 to 35 minutes for a moderate, steady pace (around 10–15 mph).
STOPS: every 1 min and 42 seconds.
Took 12 years to get to 5.7 miles.
These things are so painfully slow... but if you have time and / or no bus option (because KCTA removed the direct bus)... this is all you got.
COST TO RIDE: Free. If KC charged 2.00 ome way... the ride would lose half of its ridership for sure.
....
Then there is STL that has had a viable and real mass transit system for 33 years. All right away, fast, and quick headways. Expanded the Red Line two times ( three this summer with STL MidAmerca extension). Has underground subways/stations in the downtown cooridor. Connects 2 terminals at Lambert STL International to the city and this summer will connect both STL Airports with rail.
The systems three counties and two states. The Blue Line kept the original Red Line structure (no street running) right away, high level platforms, fast service, built primarily elevated and in subways (including a new 5 miles of underground subway stations and new underground tunnels (one from Big Bend Station to Forsyth is 2.5 miles long itself). In 2025, Turnstiles and security upgrades have boosted boardings by 15% at 11 key stations. Impact of Security: High-traffic stations like Forest Park-DeBaliviere saw a ~56% increase in ridership as of May 2025. Usage: 84% of users rely on the system for commuting to work with nearly 70,000 riders daily and growing since Covid.
The Green Line (if done with LRT) would be right away with no traffic running and priority signals.
STLians are spoiled with Metro. The system was built like heavy rail and commuter system. When STL planned the Metro in the 80s, LRT was not really utilized in the USA. The concept planners used what urban metro planners in other North American systems - heavy rail mass transit. What STL ended up with is far beyond what any LRT system in the USA has. When planning the Blue Line, Metro knew that, in order to keep the system cohesive (but also a modern mass transit system that STLians expected) they would need to spend a lot of money... and they did. But what was built for the Blue Line is amazing and beautiful. I remember reading an article in the newspaper years in the 80's when planners were designing Metro, one was quoted saying (paraphrasing) "St. Louisans won't ride a train into the city unless it is fast and convenient" Went on to say "the subway stations in downtown must be inviting and bright or they will not go underground to take a train."
They did an amazing job and personally ai think we are so lucky in our city to have metro built right.
Again, this idea or notion that KC is way ahead of STL in mass transit is a joke.
- 595
I couldn’t agree more…matguy70 wrote:"The vision in KC right now under the same state leadership we complain about and blame for our holdbacks is light years ahead of what we have right now in StL"
Ummm seriously. That is a bit dramatic.
I hate these modern Streetcars to be honest with you. They are slow. They are so slow. I can ride a bike faster to get somewhere.
KC being "Light years ahead" is ridiculous.
Even after with the new expansion on the original line:
TOTAL MILES: 5.7 miles
AVERAGE TIME: Moves with vehicle traffic speeds (20 to 40mph), take 30 to 40 minutes to go 5.7 miles. (an average healthy person can walk 5 miles in 1 hour 15 minutes - Biking 5 miles typically takes 20 to 35 minutes for a moderate, steady pace (around 10–15 mph).
STOPS: every 1 min and 42 seconds.
Took 12 years to get to 5.7 miles.
These things are so painfully slow... but if you have time and / or no bus option (because KCTA removed the direct bus)... this is all you got.
COST TO RIDE: Free. If KC charged 2.00 ome way... the ride would lose half of its ridership for sure.
....
Then there is STL that has had a viable and real mass transit system for 33 years. All right away, fast, and quick headways. Expanded the Red Line two times ( three this summer with STL MidAmerca extension). Has underground subways/stations in the downtown cooridor. Connects 2 terminals at Lambert STL International to the city and this summer will connect both STL Airports with rail.
The systems three counties and two states. The Blue Line kept the original Red Line structure (no street running) right away, high level platforms, fast service, built primarily elevated and in subways (including a new 5 miles of underground subway stations and new underground tunnels (one from Big Bend Station to Forsyth is 2.5 miles long itself). In 2025, Turnstiles and security upgrades have boosted boardings by 15% at 11 key stations. Impact of Security: High-traffic stations like Forest Park-DeBaliviere saw a ~56% increase in ridership as of May 2025. Usage: 84% of users rely on the system for commuting to work with nearly 70,000 riders daily and growing since Covid.
The Green Line (if done with LRT) would be right away with no traffic running and priority signals.
STLians are spoiled with Metro. The system was built like heavy rail and commuter system. When STL planned the Metro in the 80s, LRT was not really utilized in the USA. The concept planners used what urban metro planners in other North American systems - heavy rail mass transit. What STL ended up with is far beyond what any LRT system in the USA has. When planning the Blue Line, Metro knew that, in order to keep the system cohesive (but also a modern mass transit system that STLians expected) they would need to spend a lot of money... and they did. But what was built for the Blue Line is amazing and beautiful. I remember reading an article in the newspaper years in the 80's when planners were designing Metro, one was quoted saying (paraphrasing) "St. Louisans won't ride a train into the city unless it is fast and convenient" Went on to say "the subway stations in downtown must be inviting and bright or they will not go underground to take a train."
They did an amazing job and personally ai think we are so lucky in our city to have metro built right.
Again, this idea or notion that KC is way ahead of STL in mass transit is a joke.
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Multiple things can be true at once.PlatinumBlues wrote:I couldn’t agree more…matguy70 wrote:"The vision in KC right now under the same state leadership we complain about and blame for our holdbacks is light years ahead of what we have right now in StL"
Ummm seriously. That is a bit dramatic.
I hate these modern Streetcars to be honest with you. They are slow. They are so slow. I can ride a bike faster to get somewhere.
KC being "Light years ahead" is ridiculous.
Even after with the new expansion on the original line:
TOTAL MILES: 5.7 miles
AVERAGE TIME: Moves with vehicle traffic speeds (20 to 40mph), take 30 to 40 minutes to go 5.7 miles. (an average healthy person can walk 5 miles in 1 hour 15 minutes - Biking 5 miles typically takes 20 to 35 minutes for a moderate, steady pace (around 10–15 mph).
STOPS: every 1 min and 42 seconds.
Took 12 years to get to 5.7 miles.
These things are so painfully slow... but if you have time and / or no bus option (because KCTA removed the direct bus)... this is all you got.
COST TO RIDE: Free. If KC charged 2.00 ome way... the ride would lose half of its ridership for sure.
....
Then there is STL that has had a viable and real mass transit system for 33 years. All right away, fast, and quick headways. Expanded the Red Line two times ( three this summer with STL MidAmerca extension). Has underground subways/stations in the downtown cooridor. Connects 2 terminals at Lambert STL International to the city and this summer will connect both STL Airports with rail.
The systems three counties and two states. The Blue Line kept the original Red Line structure (no street running) right away, high level platforms, fast service, built primarily elevated and in subways (including a new 5 miles of underground subway stations and new underground tunnels (one from Big Bend Station to Forsyth is 2.5 miles long itself). In 2025, Turnstiles and security upgrades have boosted boardings by 15% at 11 key stations. Impact of Security: High-traffic stations like Forest Park-DeBaliviere saw a ~56% increase in ridership as of May 2025. Usage: 84% of users rely on the system for commuting to work with nearly 70,000 riders daily and growing since Covid.
The Green Line (if done with LRT) would be right away with no traffic running and priority signals.
STLians are spoiled with Metro. The system was built like heavy rail and commuter system. When STL planned the Metro in the 80s, LRT was not really utilized in the USA. The concept planners used what urban metro planners in other North American systems - heavy rail mass transit. What STL ended up with is far beyond what any LRT system in the USA has. When planning the Blue Line, Metro knew that, in order to keep the system cohesive (but also a modern mass transit system that STLians expected) they would need to spend a lot of money... and they did. But what was built for the Blue Line is amazing and beautiful. I remember reading an article in the newspaper years in the 80's when planners were designing Metro, one was quoted saying (paraphrasing) "St. Louisans won't ride a train into the city unless it is fast and convenient" Went on to say "the subway stations in downtown must be inviting and bright or they will not go underground to take a train."
They did an amazing job and personally ai think we are so lucky in our city to have metro built right.
Again, this idea or notion that KC is way ahead of STL in mass transit is a joke.
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STL has a great system with high maximum and average speeds. It’s probably the best LRT in terms of dedicated ROW and speed built jn the modern era.
Yet STL has done a poor job of expanding the system in the last ~20 years and seemingly a part of the that is not being flexible / right sizing the mode or the route. KC did a really good job of adjusting the route and mode until they found something that could actually get funded and built. There is probably something there for STL to learn from.
KC has 11-12k average daily riders since the extension opened and STL had 18K average daily in FY2024. Need more time to see how KC’s line settles but that’s surprisingly close for KC’s slow winter months vs STL all year and without the KC Riverfront / Stadium station being open. Shear speed or route miles is not the sole factor in usage (station placement, safety, etc. are just as important).
I really think STL would benefit from some sort of CWE-Midtown-Downtown-Soulard / South City tram. The TDD model used by KC and the similar TIF model used by Omaha should most certainly work in STL.
- 595
I firmly believe St.Louisans are made to believe that KC is the premier & better city in the state because our crime is high the city has lost over 600,000 residents while most have moved to the county section of the area. KC folks will drag St.Louisans down however way they want to make us feel like the place we call home is sh*tty.. What they have the FIFA coming the chiefs are planning a new stadium soon the royals will be unveiling plans for their new stadium likely downtown they have transformed their riverfront however the Missouri River is much smaller than the Mississippi River when flowing through St.Louis & other things happening there however it doesn’t take away what St.Louis has accomplished & gotten done. Crime continues to go down the new Cardinal glennon will be added to the skyline Albion West is almost 10 floors into construction the brick line greenway is underway & will likely change St.Louis outdoor scene further the incredible zoo expansion in north county will likely be world class the Millennium site will likely be transformative once construction begins city sc has done a great job with such a beautiful stadium new airport terminal eventually we have the trans Atlantic flights etc. while I’m not keen for brt it will add something new until something better comes along & can incorporate a new version of above ground light rail to the city even At&T building if done right will be mind blowing there’s a lot going on for StL. There’s just way too many negatives that over shadow the positives going on here. StL isn’t perfect but what city is?? Kudos to KC for doing what’s right for them but what they are doing transit wise likely wouldn’t be right for here at the moment we’ll see what happens. Hell we even have IKEA in the city Boeing is bringing back its defense HQ here We take it all for granted to be honest. That’s just a little bit of my take. Not throwing shade at KC it’s not worth it but we really need to stop this thing of KC is doing better & is better. I’ll take what we have any day over what they have heck we’re even getting the Olympic soccer games we’re spoiled yet fortunate even in a place that’s looked as undesirable… we still have what it takes.
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St.Louis Metro link & KC’s street car systems aren’t even comparable. One is completely free to ride while the other isn’t. The metro link is very successful. People throughout the region rely on it no matter through the highs & lows. Whatever next comes for it will likely be above grade but that’s been tabled for the time being for brt. I do think St.Louis could benefit with something comparable to KC’s system that traverses through several downtown St.Louis thoroughfare’s & neighborhoods linking north central & south neighborhoods eventually, but trying to compare both isn’t even close one goes 20-30mph with many stops while one goes 60mph with right aways & will link both airports. Once KC decides to start charging fairs to ride the outcome will be different. KC has done good so far in finding what works for them but let’s not forget it’s free for the time being & let’s not get into this back & forth chatter about St.Louis has failed its transit system cause in reality it’s far better than KC’s.ldai_phs wrote:Multiple things can be true at once.PlatinumBlues wrote:I couldn’t agree more…matguy70 wrote:"The vision in KC right now under the same state leadership we complain about and blame for our holdbacks is light years ahead of what we have right now in StL"
Ummm seriously. That is a bit dramatic.
I hate these modern Streetcars to be honest with you. They are slow. They are so slow. I can ride a bike faster to get somewhere.
KC being "Light years ahead" is ridiculous.
Even after with the new expansion on the original line:
TOTAL MILES: 5.7 miles
AVERAGE TIME: Moves with vehicle traffic speeds (20 to 40mph), take 30 to 40 minutes to go 5.7 miles. (an average healthy person can walk 5 miles in 1 hour 15 minutes - Biking 5 miles typically takes 20 to 35 minutes for a moderate, steady pace (around 10–15 mph).
STOPS: every 1 min and 42 seconds.
Took 12 years to get to 5.7 miles.
These things are so painfully slow... but if you have time and / or no bus option (because KCTA removed the direct bus)... this is all you got.
COST TO RIDE: Free. If KC charged 2.00 ome way... the ride would lose half of its ridership for sure.
....
Then there is STL that has had a viable and real mass transit system for 33 years. All right away, fast, and quick headways. Expanded the Red Line two times ( three this summer with STL MidAmerca extension). Has underground subways/stations in the downtown cooridor. Connects 2 terminals at Lambert STL International to the city and this summer will connect both STL Airports with rail.
The systems three counties and two states. The Blue Line kept the original Red Line structure (no street running) right away, high level platforms, fast service, built primarily elevated and in subways (including a new 5 miles of underground subway stations and new underground tunnels (one from Big Bend Station to Forsyth is 2.5 miles long itself). In 2025, Turnstiles and security upgrades have boosted boardings by 15% at 11 key stations. Impact of Security: High-traffic stations like Forest Park-DeBaliviere saw a ~56% increase in ridership as of May 2025. Usage: 84% of users rely on the system for commuting to work with nearly 70,000 riders daily and growing since Covid.
The Green Line (if done with LRT) would be right away with no traffic running and priority signals.
STLians are spoiled with Metro. The system was built like heavy rail and commuter system. When STL planned the Metro in the 80s, LRT was not really utilized in the USA. The concept planners used what urban metro planners in other North American systems - heavy rail mass transit. What STL ended up with is far beyond what any LRT system in the USA has. When planning the Blue Line, Metro knew that, in order to keep the system cohesive (but also a modern mass transit system that STLians expected) they would need to spend a lot of money... and they did. But what was built for the Blue Line is amazing and beautiful. I remember reading an article in the newspaper years in the 80's when planners were designing Metro, one was quoted saying (paraphrasing) "St. Louisans won't ride a train into the city unless it is fast and convenient" Went on to say "the subway stations in downtown must be inviting and bright or they will not go underground to take a train."
They did an amazing job and personally ai think we are so lucky in our city to have metro built right.
Again, this idea or notion that KC is way ahead of STL in mass transit is a joke.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
STL has a great system with high maximum and average speeds. It’s probably the best LRT in terms of dedicated ROW and speed built jn the modern era.
Yet STL has done a poor job of expanding the system in the last ~20 years and seemingly a part of the that is not being flexible / right sizing the mode or the route. KC did a really good job of adjusting the route and mode until they found something that could actually get funded and built. There is probably something there for STL to learn from.
KC has 11-12k average daily riders since the extension opened and STL had 18K average daily in FY2024. Need more time to see how KC’s line settles but that’s surprisingly close for KC’s slow winter months vs STL all year and without the KC Riverfront / Stadium station being open. Shear speed or route miles is not the sole factor in usage (station placement, safety, etc. are just as important).
I really think STL would benefit from some sort of CWE-Midtown-Downtown-Soulard / South City tram. The TDD model used by KC and the similar TIF model used by Omaha should most certainly work in STL.
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I'll take our Metro Link system over KC touristy street car any day of the week. Can't believe this is even a discussion!
I think the failure behind our transit system is our complete lack of vision. Routes like the #95, #4, #70, and #10 should be made into "lite" BRT as seen in suburban Chicago and Minneapolis. The N-S trunk line SHOULD BE light rail whatever route you choose.
But the city would rather implement austerity and the county is just a whole mess in and of itself, a useless bafoon when it comes to anything regional. We don't have any type of regional transit plan to follow. No one talks about raising a property tax to go towards transit and infrastructure.
Then ofc the outer suburbs are beyond useless. So terrible at urban planning that they need the state to inject $100M+ of STL/KC money to expand their roads.
While KC is not really better than us in any meaningful way, other than crime and population which are arbitrary because we'd be better in both if we were 300+ sq miles, that doesn't change the fact STL has no vision and is we'll behind where we could and should be on issues like transit.
Imagine how adored Spencer would be if she got the new county executive on board with a 15+ mile N-S line with a county sales tax and maybe a city property tax hike to help the funding. She would be seen as one of the best mayors ever. That's the type of vision and leadership we should be expecting out of our leaders. Unfortunately, the Blue Line, which was built only 20 years ago, would be laughed out of the room today. We have declined significantly on transit since then. That's the failure in my view.
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But the city would rather implement austerity and the county is just a whole mess in and of itself, a useless bafoon when it comes to anything regional. We don't have any type of regional transit plan to follow. No one talks about raising a property tax to go towards transit and infrastructure.
Then ofc the outer suburbs are beyond useless. So terrible at urban planning that they need the state to inject $100M+ of STL/KC money to expand their roads.
While KC is not really better than us in any meaningful way, other than crime and population which are arbitrary because we'd be better in both if we were 300+ sq miles, that doesn't change the fact STL has no vision and is we'll behind where we could and should be on issues like transit.
Imagine how adored Spencer would be if she got the new county executive on board with a 15+ mile N-S line with a county sales tax and maybe a city property tax hike to help the funding. She would be seen as one of the best mayors ever. That's the type of vision and leadership we should be expecting out of our leaders. Unfortunately, the Blue Line, which was built only 20 years ago, would be laughed out of the room today. We have declined significantly on transit since then. That's the failure in my view.
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TBH.
I don't think STL Metro Transit needs to "learn or take anything from KCTA (a failed bus network) and a 5 mile streetcar line that has only expanded 3 miles in the past 12 years.
Sorry, just ridiculous to even compare them. Our Loop Trolley is 2.2 miles. Maybe compare KC to that. Metro is a full mass transit system. You can ride from the international airport to downtown in 30 to 40 minutes. It takes longer to ride the KC Streetcar to go just over 5 miles.
I don't think STL Metro Transit needs to "learn or take anything from KCTA (a failed bus network) and a 5 mile streetcar line that has only expanded 3 miles in the past 12 years.
Sorry, just ridiculous to even compare them. Our Loop Trolley is 2.2 miles. Maybe compare KC to that. Metro is a full mass transit system. You can ride from the international airport to downtown in 30 to 40 minutes. It takes longer to ride the KC Streetcar to go just over 5 miles.
I think it starts to become a little interesting once we get ridership data back. I mean so far the KC Streetcar (separate entity and funding than KCATA) is nipping at the heels of MetroInks ridership. The speed discussion only really matters so far as it impacts ridership. NYC Subway is super slow but it’s extensive and very useful. Fast and extensive doesn’t mean much when ridership is low.matguy70 wrote:TBH.
I don't think STL Metro Transit needs to "learn or take anything from KCTA (a failed bus network) and a 5 mile streetcar line that has only expanded 3 miles in the past 12 years.
Sorry, just ridiculous to even compare them. Our Loop Trolley is 2.2 miles. Maybe compare KC to that. Metro is a full mass transit system. You can ride from the international airport to downtown in 30 to 40 minutes. It takes longer to ride the KC Streetcar to go just over 5 miles.
The big take away for me is that LRT is really not the end all be all and that flexibility in route and mode is key to getting something built. STL probably could have made a streetcar system work (instead of BRT) if they were willing to bend on mode (and maybe also routing). LRT will never be built unless costs dramatically decline. A urban core tram network to compliment MetroLink would be popular and importantly something that could actually get built. Charlotte, Portland, etc layer streetcars and LRT effectively.
Charlotte is moving forward with another LRT line and Potland has a much better already built LRT system than us. If LRT "will never be built", then there's no point in even discussing this and there's no point in staying in STL if urban car-lite/free living is what I ultimately would like, even if it's going to take years to build.ldai_phs wrote:I think it starts to become a little interesting once we get ridership data back. I mean so far the KC Streetcar (separate entity and funding than KCATA) is nipping at the heels of MetroInks ridership. The speed discussion only really matters so far as it impacts ridership. NYC Subway is super slow but it’s extensive and very useful. Fast and extensive doesn’t mean much when ridership is low.matguy70 wrote:TBH.
I don't think STL Metro Transit needs to "learn or take anything from KCTA (a failed bus network) and a 5 mile streetcar line that has only expanded 3 miles in the past 12 years.
Sorry, just ridiculous to even compare them. Our Loop Trolley is 2.2 miles. Maybe compare KC to that. Metro is a full mass transit system. You can ride from the international airport to downtown in 30 to 40 minutes. It takes longer to ride the KC Streetcar to go just over 5 miles.
The big take away for me is that LRT is really not the end all be all and that flexibility in route and mode is key to getting something built. STL probably could have made a streetcar system work (instead of BRT) if they were willing to bend on mode (and maybe also routing). LRT will never be built unless costs dramatically decline. A urban core tram network to compliment MetroLink would be popular and importantly something that could actually get built. Charlotte, Portland, etc layer streetcars and LRT effectively.
If half assed fancy buses and slow unserious streetcars are the "future", then I'll be a resident of a better city with a better future.
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Not arguing StL doesn’t have better transit as is and that metrolink isn’t better than the KC streetcar. It certainly is as it stands.
But I said vision, which they do have right now. We canned a transit project at the first inconvenience. KC has decided to continue to take a project ahead that easily could have failed
Look at the proposals going on in KC right now - they are pushing things.
I would dream of what is happening in the West Bottoms right now to be happening on our north riverfront, or what is happening elsewhere on their riverfront anywhere on our riverfront or for us to be addressing interstate division like they are
But I said vision, which they do have right now. We canned a transit project at the first inconvenience. KC has decided to continue to take a project ahead that easily could have failed
Look at the proposals going on in KC right now - they are pushing things.
I would dream of what is happening in the West Bottoms right now to be happening on our north riverfront, or what is happening elsewhere on their riverfront anywhere on our riverfront or for us to be addressing interstate division like they are
- 502
To be fair with the West Bottoms, not much is going on there compared to what SomeraRoad proposed. Only one building is being renovated, and only one block of street is being overhauled. The project is delayed in my opinion. A ton of projects are proposed here, with many being approved, but they’re stalled after being approved.
Holy **** peeps. Get a life. Stop using this forum to share insecurities. If you’re jealous of KC then you need to travel more. There are two regions nearly closer (Nashville and Indianapolis) that are running laps around KC in all aspects. I knew y’all were going to be insufferable during the WC. I’ll ruin the ending for you. July 12th the music stops and KC returns to global irrelevancy.
not only this but KC stans need to get a ***** grip. In our lifetimes (if ever), KC will *never* rise in MSA metro rankings yet the delusional KC stans think KC is ascendant like Austin/Nashville and relevant on any national/global level. KC is a slow growth midwest metro suffering the fate of all the midwest metros. Yeah, yeah, yeah, we know STL has enormous challenges and had a much more glorious past, but....KCLOL.addxb2 wrote: ↑1:35 PM - Feb 27Holy **** peeps. Get a life. Stop using this forum to share insecurities. If you’re jealous of KC then you need to travel more. There are two regions nearly closer (Nashville and Indianapolis) that are running laps around KC in all aspects. I knew y’all were going to be insufferable during the WC. I’ll ruin the ending for you. July 12th the music stops and KC returns to global irrelevancy.
- 595
I’m guilty of engaging in pessimism…. I’ll do better in trying to withstand from any of those types of engagements it’s definitely depressing in many ways & not healthy for my mental….
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Mayor Lucas can’t use his office because it flooded today. KC City hall has suffered from plumbing related floods for years.dweebe wrote:
Meanwhile in St. Louis....
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Maybe our turn to fix our “park under restoration” issues and Municipal Courts Building now?
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An interesting project is setting sail in Downtown KC at the northwest corner of 10th and Central (934 Central). A 19-story, 384ft tall data center designed by SOM. It features ground floor retail space, closed loop cooling system @ 180 gallons per minute, and a 30 megawatt natural-gas fusion cell (which is how the power will be generated, none will be pulled from the Evergy grid). No incentives. Would require the demolition of the existing building on site (which is where some of the heartache is because of all the parking lots nearby, though the one north of the site has it's own 27-story high-rise planned).
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Crazy that the skyscraper will actually be less productive for the city than the existing two story building
No tax incentives + activated ground floor in the new project so would expect property, sales, and potentially also income taxes to be higher. I think the current building doesn’t have a ton of activity.GoHarvOrGoHome wrote:Crazy that the skyscraper will actually be less productive for the city than the existing two story building