There is no mention in the BJ article of consideration of demo for RX. If there were, BJ would have multiple pieces on just that. National news would probably be picking up on it to. This is just sloppy local TV journalism.
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As someone who works with journalists almost daily, the TV ones need the most hand holding, they aren’t experts in any topic they cover and they don’t have time to develop a story like writers that cover a specific beat for papers
I got it taken down
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Nicely done that was blatantly misguiding.
Charlie Gitto's is the exact type of building the city should be subsidizing to save. Losing it, especially by choice, would be a tragedy.
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Agreed 100%. And there's not even a redevelopment plan on the table! Historic buildings are our #1 competitive advantage - in fact, pretty much our only competitive advantage over other cities, yet we continue to squander our inherent selling points for NOTHING. Dumb, shortsighted moves like this is exactly why downtown St. Louis is painfully dull and desolate. Downtown needs to hold on to every last granular, pedestrian-scaled building it has left, which are all too rare to begin with.StlAlex wrote: ↑12:14 AM - Mar 25Charlie Gitto's is the exact type of building the city should be subsidizing to save. Losing it, especially by choice, would be a tragedy.
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Can’t wait for this to be a giant surface lot for the next 10 years. And by the time Railway gets redeveloped, they’ll just build another parking garage on this site and call it a day.stlgasm wrote:Agreed 100%. And there's not even a redevelopment plan on the table! Historic buildings are our #1 competitive advantage - in fact, pretty much our only competitive advantage over other cities, yet we continue to squander our inherent selling points for NOTHING. Dumb, shortsighted moves like this is exactly why downtown St. Louis is painfully dull and desolate. Downtown needs to hold on to every last granular, pedestrian-scaled building it has left, which are all too rare to begin with.StlAlex wrote: ↑12:14 AM - Mar 25Charlie Gitto's is the exact type of building the city should be subsidizing to save. Losing it, especially by choice, would be a tragedy.
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A modern parking garage with a better facade and more retail would objectively be an upgrade over what's there right now, with an exception for the restaurant building.STLcommenter wrote:Can’t wait for this to be a giant surface lot for the next 10 years. And by the time Railway gets redeveloped, they’ll just build another parking garage on this site and call it a day.stlgasm wrote:Agreed 100%. And there's not even a redevelopment plan on the table! Historic buildings are our #1 competitive advantage - in fact, pretty much our only competitive advantage over other cities, yet we continue to squander our inherent selling points for NOTHING. Dumb, shortsighted moves like this is exactly why downtown St. Louis is painfully dull and desolate. Downtown needs to hold on to every last granular, pedestrian-scaled building it has left, which are all too rare to begin with.StlAlex wrote: ↑12:14 AM - Mar 25Charlie Gitto's is the exact type of building the city should be subsidizing to save. Losing it, especially by choice, would be a tragedy.
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The city should really demand a real serious development here though. I know people love the BPV parking lots but I think this location would be an even better site for a real urban development. Unfortunately you're probably correct. Would be cool if we could get just 1 lucky break and have a suburban company relocate downtown and build a HQ tower here. We can dream until the next garage is built.
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The demo of Gittos also assumes this block has to a be a mega development. Why not even consider partitioning the parcels for human scale, medium scale or organic mixed development (including Gittos rehab) to avoid this all sitting as a vacant lot for years? Is the only option to wholesale the RWX building and the parking garage block to one developer?
And, it would be a huge disappointment to ever see just another parking garage rise on this parcel. 1) Would hope we learn from our mistakes as we see the scar this particularly horrible massive parking garage has left on our city for years, it would literally be the definition of insanity and 2) there are almost 4 contiguous blocks of underutilized, ugly parking garages right there between RWX garage, central downtown garage owned by the city and keiner garages and this area has been the black hole of downtown for many years because of it
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And, it would be a huge disappointment to ever see just another parking garage rise on this parcel. 1) Would hope we learn from our mistakes as we see the scar this particularly horrible massive parking garage has left on our city for years, it would literally be the definition of insanity and 2) there are almost 4 contiguous blocks of underutilized, ugly parking garages right there between RWX garage, central downtown garage owned by the city and keiner garages and this area has been the black hole of downtown for many years because of it
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In no world was it ever not going to be rebuild as a garage for the railway development and for more closer parking for One MetSTLcommenter wrote: ↑2:33 AM - Mar 25Can’t wait for this to be a giant surface lot for the next 10 years. And by the time Railway gets redeveloped, they’ll just build another parking garage on this site and call it a day.stlgasm wrote:Agreed 100%. And there's not even a redevelopment plan on the table! Historic buildings are our #1 competitive advantage - in fact, pretty much our only competitive advantage over other cities, yet we continue to squander our inherent selling points for NOTHING. Dumb, shortsighted moves like this is exactly why downtown St. Louis is painfully dull and desolate. Downtown needs to hold on to every last granular, pedestrian-scaled building it has left, which are all too rare to begin with.StlAlex wrote: ↑12:14 AM - Mar 25Charlie Gitto's is the exact type of building the city should be subsidizing to save. Losing it, especially by choice, would be a tragedy.
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I will hold out for at least residential development on top of a large parking podium. We deserve at least that when the time comes. No reason in downtown that we can’t at least get 5 or so stories on top of a podium (ie, One Foundry Way)dbInSouthCity wrote:In no world was it ever not going to be rebuild as a garage for the railway development and for more closer parking for One MetSTLcommenter wrote: ↑2:33 AM - Mar 25Can’t wait for this to be a giant surface lot for the next 10 years. And by the time Railway gets redeveloped, they’ll just build another parking garage on this site and call it a day.stlgasm wrote: Agreed 100%. And there's not even a redevelopment plan on the table! Historic buildings are our #1 competitive advantage - in fact, pretty much our only competitive advantage over other cities, yet we continue to squander our inherent selling points for NOTHING. Dumb, shortsighted moves like this is exactly why downtown St. Louis is painfully dull and desolate. Downtown needs to hold on to every last granular, pedestrian-scaled building it has left, which are all too rare to begin with.
For now, the priority is keeping the building stabilized and getting the property legally in the hands of the LCRA so this thing can be put out for sale to the right developer
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Agreed. I still hold out hope that they can build a large enough garage to allow for the Kiener garages next door to be torn down for better development / activation along the mall.dbInSouthCity wrote: ↑3:47 AM - Mar 25In no world was it ever not going to be rebuild as a garage for the railway development and for more closer parking for One MetSTLcommenter wrote: ↑2:33 AM - Mar 25Can’t wait for this to be a giant surface lot for the next 10 years. And by the time Railway gets redeveloped, they’ll just build another parking garage on this site and call it a day.stlgasm wrote: Agreed 100%. And there's not even a redevelopment plan on the table! Historic buildings are our #1 competitive advantage - in fact, pretty much our only competitive advantage over other cities, yet we continue to squander our inherent selling points for NOTHING. Dumb, shortsighted moves like this is exactly why downtown St. Louis is painfully dull and desolate. Downtown needs to hold on to every last granular, pedestrian-scaled building it has left, which are all too rare to begin with.
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Don’t hold out too much hope, party A building a garage does not incentivize party B to demolish theirs.
Kiener garages will not be torn down, they’re very profitable when the cardinals are good. I do expect them to sell this year
Kiener garages will not be torn down, they’re very profitable when the cardinals are good. I do expect them to sell this year
They really just need capital investment. Paint them white or gray. Upgrade the interior/exterior of retail spaces. New elevators. New technology.
Projectors on the side facing Kiener Plaza.
Projectors on the side facing Kiener Plaza.
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Oh I know, still a long held hope though. Those garages would be an excellent spot for a high end hotel or apartments with grand entrances on Chestnut.dbInSouthCity wrote: ↑1:24 PM - Mar 25Don’t hold out too much hope, party A building a garage does not incentivize party B to demolish theirs.
Kiener garages will not be torn down, they’re very profitable when the cardinals are good. I do expect them to sell this year
Having two blocks of buildings similar to 100, Albion, or Eleven in MN would make a great impact on downtown.
Employ local artists to paint MURALS on them. These hulks overlook Kiener Plaza and one of the most famous monuments in the country- any other big city would've done that by now, at minimum. The garages were built to allow towers to be constructed on top of them, but that would require the owner to have an ounce of vision, which obviously is not the case based on the crappy condition of these monstrosities. They are a horrible blight on downtown.addxb2 wrote: ↑1:33 PM - Mar 25They really just need capital investment. Paint them white or gray. Upgrade the interior/exterior of retail spaces. New elevators. New technology.
Projectors on the side facing Kiener Plaza.
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The grays matching the grey tiles on the Kiener plaza would be so easy to do... its a shame those two garages are such a slog. The city should just pay someone to do it for them...
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I suspect these garages are profitable enough that ownership doesn't really care if the retail is occupied or not. It's going to take substantial efforts to refresh the garage enough to attract the chains that once called it home, an unfortunately if they are making enough selling parking spots they don't have to care.
I really hope new owners decide to invest in them, but I suspect the current retail environment downtown would keep potential rents low. At the bare minimum they need to do some work on the ground floor anyways. Chase Bank just opened a couple years ago and already looks like a disaster. Peeling paint everywhere.
On the plus side, the RX garage being torn down will improve vibes around the north side of the Kiener garages. Maybe will help with leasing.
I really hope new owners decide to invest in them, but I suspect the current retail environment downtown would keep potential rents low. At the bare minimum they need to do some work on the ground floor anyways. Chase Bank just opened a couple years ago and already looks like a disaster. Peeling paint everywhere.
On the plus side, the RX garage being torn down will improve vibes around the north side of the Kiener garages. Maybe will help with leasing.
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The Keiner Garages are just too visible and in possibly the most prime position in the region to not eventually come down for a hotel, Class A Office or high end residential. May be a while but the city should always be looking to swoop in to make that an option. It’s not like the owners keep these up to any standard
In any rational city, the RWX parcel will be more than just another hulk parking garage. We saw how that works out and downtown will never come back if we keep letting every parcel become a parking garage or surface lot for another development
Doesn’t the city own the garage at 7th & Pine. Could they sell that garage to the developer of the RWX building and Gill building parcel as extra parking and incentive to get the developments done without adding another standalone garage?
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In any rational city, the RWX parcel will be more than just another hulk parking garage. We saw how that works out and downtown will never come back if we keep letting every parcel become a parking garage or surface lot for another development
Doesn’t the city own the garage at 7th & Pine. Could they sell that garage to the developer of the RWX building and Gill building parcel as extra parking and incentive to get the developments done without adding another standalone garage?
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We rehash this idea every year it seems.stlgasm wrote: ↑1:47 PM - Mar 25Employ local artists to paint MURALS on them. These hulks overlook Kiener Plaza and one of the most famous monuments in the country- any other big city would've done that by now, at minimum. The garages were built to allow towers to be constructed on top of them, but that would require the owner to have an ounce of vision, which obviously is not the case based on the crappy condition of these monstrosities. They are a horrible blight on downtown.addxb2 wrote: ↑1:33 PM - Mar 25They really just need capital investment. Paint them white or gray. Upgrade the interior/exterior of retail spaces. New elevators. New technology.
Projectors on the side facing Kiener Plaza.
Who do we engage with to actually see what's possible?
I asked Google AI to create some interesting architecture here in place of the garages (and told it the site was close to the Gateway Arch) and this is what it came up with:
This is amazing but would require vision and leadership.
Gateway Arch Foundation is the only org capable of vision and their capacity is at Millennium
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This is Torcherstldotage wrote:I asked Google AI to create some interesting architecture here in place of the garages (and told it the site was close to the Gateway Arch) and this is what it came up with:
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