Events at Enterprise Center last night help show some of the potentially deadly consequences of constant lying about crime downtown.
Multiple stampedes happened after, for some reason, thousands of people thought there was a shooting both inside and outside of the arena. There was no shooting, there was no threat, but people were running like their lives depended on it, creating a very dangerous situation that injured multiple people (as far as I'm aware).
Every time anyone lies about how dangerous downtown is, they are actively making it more dangerous.
We have several generations of people who have endured mass shootings and violent events as a part of the culture, and who grew up doing mass shooter drills in school (myself included). Rather than assume last night's events are solely the result of a bias against downtown, it is a likely the consequence of the culture of violence and mass shootings many have experienced over the past few decades.
We have several generations of people who have endured mass shootings and violent events as a part of the culture, and who grew up doing mass shooter drills in school (myself included). Rather than assume last night's events are solely the result of a bias against downtown, it is a likely the consequence of the culture of violence and mass shootings many have experienced over the past few decades.
This has a WHOLE lot to do with it. People hear a loud noise, look up around them and others and think... OMG is it going to happen to us this time???
We have several generations of people who have endured mass shootings and violent events as a part of the culture, and who grew up doing mass shooter drills in school (myself included). Rather than assume last night's events are solely the result of a bias against downtown, it is a likely the consequence of the culture of violence and mass shootings many have experienced over the past few decades.
I didn't say it was solely about anything, I said the more people lie about crime and safety downtown, the more dangerous it actually gets.
I don’t think this event has anything to do with crime or downtown. People are understandably somewhat skittish these days at events with a lot of people.
Lying about crime doesn’t make downtown more dangerous.
I don’t think this event has anything to do with crime or downtown. People are understandably somewhat skittish these days at events with a lot of people.
Lying about crime doesn’t make downtown more dangerous.
People are not "understandably somewhat skittish" and "somewhat skittish" is not starting a stampede that could have actually killed people over nothing but fears placed in people's heads by liars like you.
I don’t think this event has anything to do with crime or downtown. People are understandably somewhat skittish these days at events with a lot of people.
Lying about crime doesn’t make downtown more dangerous.
People are not "understandably somewhat skittish" and "somewhat skittish" is not starting a stampede that could have actually killed people over nothing but fears placed in people's heads by liars like you.
Frankly I don’t think anyone here has any idea what point you are trying to make with this anecdote from last night.
Just to clarify yet another personal attack from you, I’ve never lied about crime downtown to anyone. I’m very aware of the statistics and trends around crime downtown. I don’t think it’s a dangerous place at all.
There has been an interesting dynamic inside the St. Louis Metropolitan Police Department ever since Chief Robert Tracy took over. From the outside looking in, the reaction has been almost entirely positive. Elected officials, business leaders, neighborhood groups, and people who regularly deal with public-safety issues have consistently said he’s been a stabilizing force and that the department is heading in a better direction under his leadership.
Inside the department, especially among some of the command staff, the reaction has been noticeably different. A number of captains, majors and Lt. Col.s have not been as welcoming, and a lot of that seems to stem from the long-standing belief that the chief’s job should always go to someone from within the department. That mindset is part of why language was pushed into the state-control bill requiring internal candidates. It reflects an instinct to guard their own. But it also raises a very fair question about whether promoting from within has always produced the results the city needs, or whether bringing in outside experience is sometimes exactly what can shake loose old problems.
Since Tracy arrived, the results speak for themselves: measurable improvements, clearer direction, and unusually broad praise from people across the political spectrum. That type of consensus is rare in this city, and it has mattered.
Then there’s the state control board appointed by the governor. When those names came out, a lot of people were surprised at how little relevant experience the board members brought to the table. Many expected retired officers, former federal agents, academics in criminal justice, people who understand policing at a deep level. Instead, the board is widely viewed as being light on qualifications. The running theory among people who follow this closely is that the governor trusts Tracy, wanted him to have wide latitude, and intentionally put together a board that would not interfere.
In conversations with multiple folks around the department, that seems to be exactly how things have played out. Tracy appears to operate with the understanding that the board is not going to constrain him, and he largely ignores them because he knows he has strong backing at the state level, specifically the Governor.
That’s where things stand today: a chief with broad external support, internal resistance that hasn’t slowed him down much, and a governance structure that was seemingly designed to let him run the department largely on his own terms.
Decreases in homicides in 2023 / 2024 were driven by improvements in the North Patrol. This year the decrease will come thanks to the Central Patrol. The Central Patrol is at 28 but ended 60 last year and 57 the year before. North Patrol will end the year higher than last and South Patrol about the same.
Taking a look at the Post Dispatch homicide maps, I see big reductions in Downtown + Downtown West + Midtown. In the area defined by Grand, Chouteau, Delmar and the River there were 14 homicides in 2024. Just 2 in 2025. Areas just north of Downtown are higher than last.
Maybe we have a state and administration that is finally accurately reporting the true crime statistics. Most experts knew that the city has been playing with the numbers.
lol...insane. Nothing has changed. The trend is the same. The person at SLMPD who puts it together is the same doing it the same way. The city admin still has no say in how to data is complied nor does it see it before the public does. Do you think someone at the mayors office got up at 4 am each morning to go over the daily homicide report published each morning.
Maybe we have a state and administration that is finally accurately reporting the true crime statistics. Most experts knew that the city has been playing with the numbers.
Do you have any evidence whatsoever that the city has been playing with the numbers? Who are these experts you’re referring to?
Maybe we have a state and administration that is finally accurately reporting the true crime statistics. Most experts knew that the city has been playing with the numbers.
Nobody outside of undiagnosed schizophrenics think police are reporting false crime data. Certainly no experts.
^Auggie, I agree with you that the city and the mayor's office weren't reporting false crime data, but there's no reason to make it into a personal attack, or a mental health smear, for that matter. We've really got to be more civilized. I get it. It's infuriating to have to deal with the background noise of false claims and carelessly repeated propaganda, but that's the world we're living in, and all of us, literally all of us, fall for this crap occasionally. So there's no reason to make it into a personal attack. If you think OP is a bot, report them. If you think the post is false, by all means call it out. But let's keep it above the belt.
^Auggie, I agree with you that the city and the mayor's office weren't reporting false crime data, but there's no reason to make it into a personal attack, or a mental health smear, for that matter. We've really got to be more civilized. I get it. It's infuriating to have to deal with the background noise of false claims and carelessly repeated propaganda, but that's the world we're living in, and all of us, literally all of us, fall for this crap occasionally. So there's no reason to make it into a personal attack. If you think OP is a bot, report them. If you think the post is false, by all means call it out. But let's keep it above the belt.
These people are getting people killed by sending military into cities based on complete lies about cities being war zones. You can't "be civilized" when they are literally killing people based on lies and then gloating about it. They are a death cult and "the left" needs to start treating them like it.
^Auggie, I agree with you that the city and the mayor's office weren't reporting false crime data, but there's no reason to make it into a personal attack, or a mental health smear, for that matter. We've really got to be more civilized. I get it. It's infuriating to have to deal with the background noise of false claims and carelessly repeated propaganda, but that's the world we're living in, and all of us, literally all of us, fall for this crap occasionally. So there's no reason to make it into a personal attack. If you think OP is a bot, report them. If you think the post is false, by all means call it out. But let's keep it above the belt.
These people are getting people killed by sending military into cities based on complete lies about cities being war zones. You can't "be civilized" when they are literally killing people based on lies and then gloating about it. They are a death cult and "the left" needs to start treating them like it.
What you fail to grasp is that responding with personal attacks doesn’t bring them closer to our side. It pushes them further away. You are making the problem worse.
You and I both know the original claim that the city is falsifying crime reports is wrong. Do you think the original poster is more likely to engage in good faith dialogue and maybe learn something based on your response or mine?
^Auggie, I agree with you that the city and the mayor's office weren't reporting false crime data, but there's no reason to make it into a personal attack, or a mental health smear, for that matter. We've really got to be more civilized. I get it. It's infuriating to have to deal with the background noise of false claims and carelessly repeated propaganda, but that's the world we're living in, and all of us, literally all of us, fall for this crap occasionally. So there's no reason to make it into a personal attack. If you think OP is a bot, report them. If you think the post is false, by all means call it out. But let's keep it above the belt.
These people are getting people killed by sending military into cities based on complete lies about cities being war zones. You can't "be civilized" when they are literally killing people based on lies and then gloating about it. They are a death cult and "the left" needs to start treating them like it.
What you fail to grasp is that responding with personal attacks doesn’t bring them closer to our side. It pushes them further away. You are making the problem worse.
You and I both know the original claim that the city is falsifying crime reports is wrong. Do you think the original poster is more likely to engage in good faith dialogue and maybe learn something based on your response or mine?
What you fail to grasp is that he has severe undiagnosed mental health issues and you can't argue with him because he lives in a seperate reality from you.
The sooner people like you realize this, the sooner you stop trying to "win them over" and your ideology my start winning again.
The problem: People are being killed and hes gloating about it. He needs to be socially ostracized for his views to the point where he never wants to tell anyone abou them, or his live would be over.
These people are getting people killed by sending military into cities based on complete lies about cities being war zones. You can't "be civilized" when they are literally killing people based on lies and then gloating about it. They are a death cult and "the left" needs to start treating them like it.
What you fail to grasp is that responding with personal attacks doesn’t bring them closer to our side. It pushes them further away. You are making the problem worse.
You and I both know the original claim that the city is falsifying crime reports is wrong. Do you think the original poster is more likely to engage in good faith dialogue and maybe learn something based on your response or mine?
What you fail to grasp is that he has severe undiagnosed mental health issues and you can't argue with him because he lives in a seperate reality from you.
The sooner people like you realize this, the sooner you stop trying to "win them over" and your ideology my start winning again.
The problem: People are being killed and hes gloating about it. He needs to be socially ostracized for his views to the point where he never wants to tell anyone abou them, or his live would be over.
If you feel that you can’t argue with him, do everyone on this forum a favor and don’t respond to what he says so we don’t have to read your drivel. I and many other on here have people in our lives we care about that have serious mental issues.
To the OP, know there are level headed people here who are willing to engage in an honest dialogue.
What you fail to grasp is that responding with personal attacks doesn’t bring them closer to our side. It pushes them further away. You are making the problem worse.
You and I both know the original claim that the city is falsifying crime reports is wrong. Do you think the original poster is more likely to engage in good faith dialogue and maybe learn something based on your response or mine?
What you fail to grasp is that he has severe undiagnosed mental health issues and you can't argue with him because he lives in a seperate reality from you.
The sooner people like you realize this, the sooner you stop trying to "win them over" and your ideology my start winning again.
The problem: People are being killed and hes gloating about it. He needs to be socially ostracized for his views to the point where he never wants to tell anyone abou them, or his live would be over.
If you feel that you can’t argue with him, do everyone on this forum a favor and don’t respond to what he says so we don’t have to read your drivel. I and many other on here have people in our lives we care about that have serious mental issues.
To the OP, know there are level headed people here who are willing to engage in an honest dialogue.
Alternatively, you could shut up so no one has to read your mindless drivel defending schizophrenic fascists who want you to die.
What you fail to grasp is that he has severe undiagnosed mental health issues and you can't argue with him because he lives in a seperate reality from you.
The sooner people like you realize this, the sooner you stop trying to "win them over" and your ideology my start winning again.
The problem: People are being killed and hes gloating about it. He needs to be socially ostracized for his views to the point where he never wants to tell anyone abou them, or his live would be over.
If you feel that you can’t argue with him, do everyone on this forum a favor and don’t respond to what he says so we don’t have to read your drivel. I and many other on here have people in our lives we care about that have serious mental issues.
To the OP, know there are level headed people here who are willing to engage in an honest dialogue.
Alternatively, you could shut up so no one has to read your mindless drivel defending schizophrenic fascists who want you to die.
What you fail to grasp is that responding with personal attacks doesn’t bring them closer to our side. It pushes them further away. You are making the problem worse.
There's really no saving a lot of these people - regardless of what evidence is presented or how an argument is phrased, it will either be discarded wholly or rationalized away.
What you fail to grasp is that responding with personal attacks doesn’t bring them closer to our side. It pushes them further away. You are making the problem worse.
There's really no saving a lot of these people - regardless of what evidence is presented or how an argument is phrased, it will either be discarded wholly or rationalized away.
I know that, but that’s not necessarily all of those people and it doesn’t at all justify Auggie’s response. The guy made one comment before he was attacked.
