KC hasn’t wanted to subsidize or waive fees for Breeze and Avelo which are chasing incentives. JetBlue pulled out admist a major reduction in service nationally and after having not grown the station. UA pulling EWR down to seasonal has been a bit disappointing but DL is running more flights than ever to NY which counter balances.Loscher94 wrote:None of the major European airports have serious expansion plans and their home airlines are primarily preparing for fleet modernization not growth. AMS and DUB are capped, CDG and FRA are getting close to limits. How long has LHR's 3rd runway concept been on the drawing board? So yes, a degree of concern is warranted every time a city not KC is added as it reduces our odds. There is indeed a scarcity even if artificial/self-imposed.ldai_phs wrote: ↑Oct 02, 2025The distance from STL to MCI is roughly the distance between STL and BNA and BNA and CVG. That is to say there is probably no impact (aside from fewer slots and frames available).Loscher94 wrote:Since BA announced STL, does that kill KC’s chance of ever gaining a TATL? What other viable carrier would be interested, even looking 10 years out? BA was our best chance. LH is unlikely given they already serve STL and the A321XLR doesn’t have the range so Aer Lingus is out as well and nobody was interested in Icelandair. What does that leave us? Air France? Virgin Atlantic? Fat chance for either carrier. Really disappointed in our city and state leaders. All talk but zero execution. Useless and incompetent! No effort in corralling business support, attracting FDI, building up institutions, landing new companies etc. that make such flights possible.
An official during the announcement gloated how the route could serve as a gateway to the WC games in KC. I found that somewhat unsavory and as if anyone is going to drive 4/5 hrs. I most certainly will not patronize this flight.
But from a macro point of view, KC's air service has somewhat started going off a cliff.
- UA reducing EWR to seasonal
- SFO to a once daily regional jet when it used to be an A319
- Air Canada and JetBlue pulling out entirely
- Southwest cutting multiple routes including ones we've had for years like OAK.
- Constantly passed over by foreign carriers and new entrants like Breeze and Avelo
I have to wonder if the cost of the new terminal is off putting to airlines, KC's economy is weaker than we realize or if the city is truly this inept.
.....But thank God we have a 5th airline serving Cancun and sporadic 1x weekly flights to some random resort towns. Ugh, this city frustrates me to no end on so many fronts. How do they keep getting into power when they never deliver?
Disembarking STL, jaunting over to Union Station to board a slow/chronically delayed train instead of transferring through ATL or DFW? Make it make sense. Just the ramblings of an overexcited bureaucrat.MOsloth22 wrote: ↑Oct 02, 2025Of course no one is going to drive 4/5 hours. These are Europeans we’re talking about…they’re taking the River Runner.
Yea very few if anyone is going to self connect at STL when bountiful connections exist (and take less time).Loscher94 wrote:Disembarking STL, jaunting over to Union Station to board a slow/chronically delayed train instead of transferring through ATL or DFW? Make it make sense. Just the ramblings of an overexcited bureaucrat.MOsloth22 wrote: ↑Oct 02, 2025Of course no one is going to drive 4/5 hours. These are Europeans we’re talking about…they’re taking the River Runner.
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It’s gone way down hill I mean it doesn’t even have anything to do with STL gaining a new trans Atlantic flight it’s gone very personal like really it’s not that serious. Saying downtown STL is a zombie downtown there’s nothing going on there StL is dying & losing population etc… I mean why come here if you don’t like it here. Theres a reason why StL is able to still pull off some things & KC hasn’t. Doesn’t mean they’re less deserving just some things haven’t worked out in their favor at the moment… anyways they can all drown in their own sorrows & keep with their personal attacks won’t change the fact that we have a new trans Atlantic flight & they don’t.Auggie wrote:Yea KC Rag started somewhat reasonable and some of them are looking introspectively, but today it went VERY downhilladdxb2 wrote: ↑Oct 02, 2025First, KCRag they’re in the stage of processing that involves comparing population, downtown, and criticizing the incentives. Dangerous levels of cope.
Second, I agree that the distance is far enough that MCI shouldn’t be impacted. I think LH and BA don’t really care that they’re both in MO. STL getting a second just means a competitor has returned to the back of the line when an airline does have the capacity.. The cope is real from some on there.
My view on KC is that the region is simply not large enough and the corporate scene is not big enough to attract flights like that, at least without massive subsidy. So I feel like any trans-Atlantic flight will need a large subsidy, but maybe I'm wrong. Just feels kinda like an Indianapolis situation, though MCI is definitely a higher level airport than IND.
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Been reading up on him, why exactly did he get recalled by such a large margin?ldai_phs wrote: ↑Oct 01, 2025In other county news, Frank White the county executive was recalled.ldai_phs wrote:City looking to lease jail space from Jackson County starting Jan 2026 and open a temporary city jail also in 2026. More permanent facility to come (likely adjacent to the new county facility).
Stadium + property tax debacles.Auggie wrote:Been reading up on him, why exactly did he get recalled by such a large margin?ldai_phs wrote: ↑Oct 01, 2025In other county news, Frank White the county executive was recalled.ldai_phs wrote:City looking to lease jail space from Jackson County starting Jan 2026 and open a temporary city jail also in 2026. More permanent facility to come (likely adjacent to the new county facility).
Did he support a stadium or something? Does their County Excecutive handle property assessment?
I just do not grasp how a guy who has been re-elected comfortably since 2016 managed to do so bad that 85% want him out. I'm not even seeing anything criminal like with Stenger or even Page?
He was anti-stadium and in Jackson County there is not an elected accessor. You can read more about the property tax stuff here:Auggie wrote:Did he support a stadium or something? Does their County Excecutive handle property assessment?ldai_phs wrote: ↑Oct 03, 2025Stadium + property tax debacles.Auggie wrote: Been reading up on him, why exactly did he get recalled by such a large margin?
I just do not grasp how a guy who has been re-elected comfortably since 2016 managed to do so bad that 85% want him out. I'm not even seeing anything criminal like with Stenger or even Page?
https://www.kcur.org/politics-elections ... ax-debacle
Maybe a reform that can come out of this is to have a separate accessor's office?ldai_phs wrote: ↑Oct 03, 2025He was anti-stadium and in Jackson County there is not an elected accessor. You can read more about the property tax stuff here:Auggie wrote:Did he support a stadium or something? Does their County Excecutive handle property assessment?ldai_phs wrote: ↑Oct 03, 2025Stadium + property tax debacles.
I just do not grasp how a guy who has been re-elected comfortably since 2016 managed to do so bad that 85% want him out. I'm not even seeing anything criminal like with Stenger or even Page?
https://www.kcur.org/politics-elections ... ax-debacle
It scheduled for November election iirc.Auggie wrote:Maybe a reform that can come out of this is to have a separate accessor's office?ldai_phs wrote: ↑Oct 03, 2025He was anti-stadium and in Jackson County there is not an elected accessor. You can read more about the property tax stuff here:Auggie wrote: Did he support a stadium or something? Does their County Excecutive handle property assessment?
I just do not grasp how a guy who has been re-elected comfortably since 2016 managed to do so bad that 85% want him out. I'm not even seeing anything criminal like with Stenger or even Page?
https://www.kcur.org/politics-elections ... ax-debacle
https://fox4kc.com/news/kansas-city-to- ... s%20spared
Kansas City apparently has a $100 million budget deficit.....and here I thought STL County was poorly run.
KC continues to stun me with how unbelievably badly it's run yet somehow keeps growing.
Kansas City apparently has a $100 million budget deficit.....and here I thought STL County was poorly run.
KC continues to stun me with how unbelievably badly it's run yet somehow keeps growing.
I wonder how much of it’s connected to the State forcing them to increase police spending. That’s about 5% of the total city budget (10% of general fund).Auggie wrote:https://fox4kc.com/news/kansas-city-to- ... s%20spared
Kansas City apparently has a $100 million budget deficit.....and here I thought STL County was poorly run.
KC continues to stun me with how unbelievably badly it's run yet somehow keeps growing.
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The disadvantage KC has is it doesn’t have a E.St.Louis nor N.St.Louis. They don’t have anything remotely notorious as to what we have although they’re beginning to suffer from high crime just like here. KC growth seems to be highly dependent on the Kansas side of their region. Missouri as a whole is barely even growing so KC’s growth is very slow as well they are just managing to out grow us at a slightly higher percentage cause our inability to solve our problems which has kept us stagnant. Just think if N.St.Louis was still modestly healthy & Illinois was pouring resources into the east side to encourage growth in E.St.Louis & other places in that part of the St.Louis area. St.Louis would likely be a region approaching 4 million instead we’re stuck between 2.7-2.9 million. Sadly St.Louis is synonymous with those two as a high negatives & I do believe that has a lot of dealing with families & even singles not wanting to live here also deterring businesses from moving here. We have some great qualities yet our bad qualities offset our good by a wide margin. As always we have potential but that potential continues to be put aside just like the dumb decision in getting rid of the green line in favor of a bus rapid . One thing I’ll give to KC at least they are investing in their light rail as to here we continue to squander.. Alas I don’t hate KC just don’t like how they continue to use St.Louis as their personal punching bag to pretend that they are better than St.Louis.Auggie wrote:https://fox4kc.com/news/kansas-city-to- ... s%20spared
Kansas City apparently has a $100 million budget deficit.....and here I thought STL County was poorly run.
KC continues to stun me with how unbelievably badly it's run yet somehow keeps growing.
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I disagree with much of your gloom but can’t remain silent here. STL has 46 miles of grade separated light rail spanning three counties and two states including one of the most iconic bridge structures in the world. This doesn’t even speak to the general strength of STLs public transport funding while KC circles the drain.PlatinumBlues wrote: One thing I’ll give to KC at least they are investing in their light rail as to here we continue to squander.
The Green Line was a good project in 2017 tortured by a generational collapse in commuting patterns followed by a generational spike in inflation followed by a remarkably terrible administration.
Pretty good juxtaposition between STL and KC is that while they are doing this, we are cutting rail plans and cutting ribbons for repaved streets.
STL is about to open a sizable LRT extension next year and has many many more miles of rail already.Auggie wrote:Pretty good juxtaposition between STL and KC is that while they are doing this, we are cutting rail plans and cutting ribbons for repaved streets.
That's Illinois. Little to do with STL.
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Outside of this project, the state of KC's transit system (particularly busses) is in a dreadful place.
Yeah like I understand why folks are trying to be glass half full here, but the MidAmerica Metrolink station is pretty incosequential for our transit system overall. There's a reason it was so cheap to build, the land out there isn't developed.
The incessant chase for Jefferson Avenue has distracted STL from achieving smaller wins outside of Cortex and Mid-America Airport. When leaders were brave enough to adjust the plan they never did so at a rate fast enough or transparently enough to keep up.
Want rail expansion in STL? Start with two miles. It’s already funded. Better question is are we sure that two miles should be Jefferson Ave?
Want rail expansion in STL? Start with two miles. It’s already funded. Better question is are we sure that two miles should be Jefferson Ave?
I’m a big proponent of some sort of east/west streetcar and a south city route in St Louis.addxb2 wrote:The incessant chase for Jefferson Avenue has distracted STL from achieving smaller wins outside of Cortex and Mid-America Airport. When leaders were brave enough to adjust the plan they never did so at a rate fast enough or transparently enough to keep up.
Want rail expansion in STL? Start with two miles. It’s already funded. Better question is are we sure that two miles should be Jefferson Ave?
While that makes sense if you’re considering effectiveness and development it does not survive equity criteria that local leaders are afraid to confront. Leaders would rather run two miles of useless rail than admit that North City (especially north Jefferson) has declined too far to justify rail.