urbanSTL

Bi-State leaders seeing KCATAs discounted bus fleet hit the market in a few weeks.

Suburban Sprawl wrote: ↑

Aug 04, 2025

Auggie wrote: ↑

Aug 04, 2025

Suburban Sprawl wrote: ↑

Aug 04, 2025

And its never going to change. KC is spread out in too many different directions and has more freeway miles per capita than anywhere in the country.

I move to Denver in October, I have just hated living here. JoCo especially must be the most overrated place amongst local residents I've ever been. 

Are you moving to the city of Denver or a suburb? Denver proper is really really solid.

Just next to Denver Tech Center. A place that makes College Blvd in OP look small fry and no one boasts about it. And it has very good transit by US standards.

I will end up out in Lone Tree or somewhere like that if I settle, but I am just so starved of living in a vibrant city just now. And I'll still be living about 13-14 miles from Downtown Denver. 

I really hope KC can sort out this mess with the ballpark and work a deal to get it Downtown as it needs some big projects but that is a very suburban minded city, even compared to STL. 

So you'll have access to a train line straight downtown. I visited a cousin in Denver last year and went downtown for lunch/drinks. Massive upgrade from Kansas City, excited for you.

Part of the reason KC is so suburban minded is because most of the "city" is suburbs. 510k people but only ~200k are in the historic urban core- the actual city. A lot of people in KC literally cannot imagine a downtown baseball stadium and think the Truman Sports Complex is the pinnacle of stadium development.

dweebe wrote: ↑

Aug 05, 2025

Embassy Suites near Kansas City’s Country Club Plaza to close permanently
https://fox4kc.com/news/embassy-suites- ... rmanently/

That hotel has to be one of the most dated Embassy Suites I've ever seen. Straight out of 1985 in that lobby.

This closure has been planned for years. Iirc it coincides with the end of the lease or management agreement.

The Plaza has really suffered in the six years or so I've been in KC. Its gotten a bad rap for crime and anti-social behavior, whether merited or not, but as it relies so heavily on wealthy car dependent suburbanites that has really just sealed its fate. Most of the high end retail is going out to Leawood, one of the most soulless places in America. I have a feeling that building will be derelict for the foreseeable future.

I am very curious to see what sales numbers at the Plaza look like after a full year of the streetcar being open. I think it will bring some big crowds from the hotels in DTKC and Crown Center. 

And suddenly… Americans are organizing to stop data centers.



A new data center planned in St. Charles. Critics raise water, flooding, energy concerns.
https://www.stltoday.com/news/local/stc ... c59b1.html

https://www.kcur.org/housing-developmen ... ract-fares

Kansas City approves new 1 year contract for KCATA (retroactively to April of this year) for $77 million.

The new contract includes the re-instatement of fares for riders, except those who are low income, it does not include IRIS, KC's rideshare. Fares will take months to implement, and the city plans to negotiate a separate contract with IRIS, which will be limited to the north side of Kansas City as opposed to the current entirety of the city.

The new deal will avoid any cuts for the foreseeable future, however more negotiations need to happen down the line.

KCATA also has a new contract with the suburb of Raytown, but most suburbs have declined to sign onto new contracts, meaning Kansas City represents the vast majority of the agency's funding.

The city council is also asking KCATA to work with Missouri, Kansas, other municipalities, and the federal government to secure more funding.
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I would expect ridership to drop in the 4th quarter, and I must say, we are very lucky to have the county-level sales tax model (not sure what to call it) instead of the individual municipality buy in model. Having to rely on suburbs to make smart decisions to maintain a skeleton transit system just sounds awful.

The Streetcar extension to UMKC opens on October 24th. I took some videos of the streetcars testing down south the past few days and put them into a short video. On the north end of the line, the Berkley Riverfront extension's construction is nearly finished. Testing should begin there soon. The Streetcar will remain free despite the KCATA's troubles because it's funded entirely separate from the ATA. The bus and streetcar share the "RideKC" branding, but are two distinct agencies.

matguy70 wrote:Looks nice. But for the expanded 3 miles in addition to 2 miles... for just over 5 miles, it really isnt viable transport IMO. However it will help UMKC students access downtown.

Really need to run it down to Waldo imho

KC Star - Kansas City building from 1888 to be demolished within weeks. See the future plans

https://www.kansascity.com/news/local/a ... 74939.html

City looking to lease jail space from Jackson County starting Jan 2026 and open a temporary city jail also in 2026. More permanent facility to come (likely adjacent to the new county facility).

quincunx wrote: ↑

Oct 01, 2025

KC Star - Kansas City building from 1888 to be demolished within weeks. See the future plans

https://www.kansascity.com/news/local/a ... 74939.html

Nothing will be done with this site. They claim an RFP, but it'll likely yield a poor quality project. Nothing can replace the Jeserich or Ward buildings (Jeserich is the best of the bunch).

ldai_phs wrote:City looking to lease jail space from Jackson County starting Jan 2026 and open a temporary city jail also in 2026. More permanent facility to come (likely adjacent to the new county facility).

In other county news, Frank White the county executive was recalled.

Since BA announced STL, does that kill KC’s chance of ever gaining a TATL? What other viable carrier would be interested, even looking 10 years out? BA was our best chance. LH is unlikely given they already serve STL and the A321XLR doesn’t have the range so Aer Lingus is out as well and nobody was interested in Icelandair. What does that leave us? Air France? Virgin Atlantic? Fat chance for either carrier. Really disappointed in our city and state leaders. All talk but zero execution. Useless and incompetent! No effort in corralling business support, attracting FDI, building up institutions, landing new companies etc. that make such flights possible.

An official during the announcement gloated how the route could serve as a gateway to the WC games in KC. I found that somewhat unsavor and as if anyone is going to drive 4/5 hrs. I most certainly will not patronize this flight.

Of course no one is going to drive 4/5 hours. These are Europeans we’re talking about…they’re taking the River Runner.

Loscher94 wrote:Since BA announced STL, does that kill KC’s chance of ever gaining a TATL? What other viable carrier would be interested, even looking 10 years out? BA was our best chance. LH is unlikely given they already serve STL and the A321XLR doesn’t have the range so Aer Lingus is out as well and nobody was interested in Icelandair. What does that leave us? Air France? Virgin Atlantic? Fat chance for either carrier. Really disappointed in our city and state leaders. All talk but zero execution. Useless and incompetent! No effort in corralling business support, attracting FDI, building up institutions, landing new companies etc. that make such flights possible.

An official during the announcement gloated how the route could serve as a gateway to the WC games in KC. I found that somewhat unsavor and as if anyone is going to drive 4/5 hrs. I most certainly will not patronize this flight.

The distance from STL to MCI is roughly the distance between STL and BNA and BNA and CVG. That is to say there is probably no impact (aside from fewer slots and frames available).

First, KCRag they’re in the stage of processing that involves comparing population, downtown, and criticizing the incentives. Dangerous levels of cope.

Second, I agree that the distance is far enough that MCI shouldn’t be impacted. I think LH and BA don’t really care that they’re both in MO. STL getting a second just means a competitor has returned to the back of the line when an airline does have the capacity.

ldai_phs wrote:

ldai_phs wrote:City looking to lease jail space from Jackson County starting Jan 2026 and open a temporary city jail also in 2026. More permanent facility to come (likely adjacent to the new county facility).

In other county news, Frank White the county executive was recalled.

Kay Barnes to be announced tomorrow as his replacement.

addxb2 wrote: ↑

Oct 02, 2025

First, KCRag they’re in the stage of processing that involves comparing population, downtown, and criticizing the incentives. Dangerous levels of cope.

Second, I agree that the distance is far enough that MCI shouldn’t be impacted. I think LH and BA don’t really care that they’re both in MO. STL getting a second just means a competitor has returned to the back of the line when an airline does have the capacity.

Yea KC Rag started somewhat reasonable and some of them are looking introspectively, but today it went VERY downhill. The cope is real from some on there.

My view on KC is that the region is simply not large enough and the corporate scene is not big enough to attract flights like that, at least without massive subsidy. So I feel like any trans-Atlantic flight will need a large subsidy, but maybe I'm wrong. Just feels kinda like an Indianapolis situation, though MCI is definitely a higher level airport than IND.

Just because the new terminal is nice doesn’t mean that it deserves a transatlantic flight. I still miss the circle terminals.

As for Kay Barnes becoming the new interim County Executive, it’s certainly a choice. She’s approaching 90 but just needs to serve until the new County Executive is elected in November 2026, so an easy enough task. She was the Mayor when Union Station reopened, the Power and Light District was built, Kauffman Center was initiated, the WW1 Museum opened and TMobile/Sprint Center was built. A case could be made that she could try to contribute one last time to downtown development by working out a last minute deal with the Royals, but that’s a very heavy lift and one I’d be shocked if she could get it done.

ldai_phs wrote: ↑

Oct 02, 2025

Loscher94 wrote:Since BA announced STL, does that kill KC’s chance of ever gaining a TATL? What other viable carrier would be interested, even looking 10 years out? BA was our best chance. LH is unlikely given they already serve STL and the A321XLR doesn’t have the range so Aer Lingus is out as well and nobody was interested in Icelandair. What does that leave us? Air France? Virgin Atlantic? Fat chance for either carrier. Really disappointed in our city and state leaders. All talk but zero execution. Useless and incompetent! No effort in corralling business support, attracting FDI, building up institutions, landing new companies etc. that make such flights possible.

An official during the announcement gloated how the route could serve as a gateway to the WC games in KC. I found that somewhat unsavory and as if anyone is going to drive 4/5 hrs. I most certainly will not patronize this flight.

The distance from STL to MCI is roughly the distance between STL and BNA and BNA and CVG. That is to say there is probably no impact (aside from fewer slots and frames available).

None of the major European airports have serious expansion plans and their home airlines are primarily preparing for fleet modernization not growth. AMS and DUB are capped, CDG and FRA are getting close to limits. How long has LHR's 3rd runway concept been on the drawing board? So yes, a degree of concern is warranted every time a city not KC is added as it reduces our odds. There is indeed a scarcity even if artificial/self-imposed.

But from a macro point of view, KC's air service has somewhat started going off a cliff. 
- UA reducing EWR to seasonal
- SFO to a once daily regional jet when it used to be an A319
- Air Canada and JetBlue pulling out entirely
- Southwest cutting multiple routes including ones we've had for years like OAK.
- Constantly passed over by foreign carriers and new entrants like Breeze and Avelo

I have to wonder if the cost of the new terminal is off putting to airlines, KC's economy is weaker than we realize or if the city is truly this inept.

.....But thank God we'll soon have 4 airlines serving Cancun and sporadic 1x weekly flights to some random resort towns. Ugh, this city frustrates me to no end on so many fronts. How do they keep getting into power when they never deliver?