urbanSTL

dbInSouthCity wrote:Absolutely pathetic. Yeah the protocols that worked just fine in 2021 to May 2025, developed by the current CEMA leader weren’t clear. What a ***** country. And she’s lying. The media is already a step ahead on why the button wasn’t pushed

Can you clarify what she’s lying about?

How was the button pressed for the texts but not the sirens?

Debaliviere91 wrote: ↑

May 19, 2025

dbInSouthCity wrote:Absolutely pathetic. Yeah the protocols that worked just fine in 2021 to May 2025, developed by the current CEMA leader weren’t clear. What a ***** country. And she’s lying. The media is already a step ahead on why the button wasn’t pushed

Can you clarify what she’s lying about?

That the protocol wasn’t clear. It’s very clear. The reason why the button wasn’t pushed was because the person that pushes it wasn’t located where the button is for some reason.

I just watched the interview. It sounds like CEMA and the Fire Department looked at each other while the pop fly hit the ground. Fire Department is now in charge and Mayor Spencer is calling it a failure.

My guess… Someone was out for the afternoon at CEMA. Fire Department either wasn’t notified or forgot that they were calling shots.

addxb2 wrote:I just watched the interview. It sounds like CEMA and the Fire Department looked at each other while the pop fly hit the ground. Fire Department is now in charge and Mayor Spencer is calling it a failure.

What does the protocol say in terms of who owns that between CEMA and the FD.

I understand we have different experiences.  Early in the AM I had to drop my significant other off at SLU for what we thought would be an outpatient surgery.  I was made aware of pending storms that afternoon and looked at weather apps.  It was calling for significant weather with hail.  Now, normally I might not alter my behavior but because I have had a new car for like 3 weeks (and, I did get small hail damage on the last one), I opted to plan my post surgery visit for 2 PM, parking on an internal wall in the garage.  I received text messages from the city, as well as a phone call telling me to take shelter now.  I was watching the news via HULU on my phone when it was reportedly touched down in Clayton, and follow the news as it progressed northeast and away from my current location.  I sympathize so much with those impacted, and I recognize it was incredibly fast.

While they should have worked and went off, I felt I was prepared and ready.  Had the tornado been headed for me at SLU, I would have deferred to their disaster preparedness protocol, which they were pushing us to do, but I felt better watching the news and where is was being tracked.

I don't have covered parking at home, just a secured lot.  I never signed up for the city text alerts, but I see the use for them.  I assume most of us (residents, with cell phones) also got them.  Tourists, travelers i suspect not.

Stay safe this evening.

Debaliviere91 wrote:

addxb2 wrote:I just watched the interview. It sounds like CEMA and the Fire Department looked at each other while the pop fly hit the ground. Fire Department is now in charge and Mayor Spencer is calling it a failure.

What does the protocol say in terms of who owns that between CEMA and the FD.

That’s probably the most unclear aspect of the policy implemented in 2021. The dreaded “or”.

addxb2 wrote:

Debaliviere91 wrote:

addxb2 wrote:I just watched the interview. It sounds like CEMA and the Fire Department looked at each other while the pop fly hit the ground. Fire Department is now in charge and Mayor Spencer is calling it a failure.

What does the protocol say in terms of who owns that between CEMA and the FD.

That’s probably the most unclear aspect of the policy implemented in 2021. The dreaded “or”.

That doesn’t seem like clear protocol to me.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

At a minimum it suggests that there is either an addendum with more policy on how that “or” is settled OR there was an agreement between departments.

My fear is that an agreement between departments didn’t come up in the “quick 20” Mayoral transition or between any of the new appointees.

Yeah I don’t think there should be an “or”. That needs to be fixed. That may work sometimes but it leaves you exposed to a miscommunication if there isn’t a clear owner.

In an FAA world, they should both have the ability to push the button if necessary. As long as they are both watching full-time.

addxb2 wrote:In an FAA world, they should both have the ability to push the button if necessary. As long as they are both watching full-time.

Sure. But one should clearly be defined as the one agency that owns this responsibility and one should be defined as the backup.

"Or" means that either of them can activate the sirens. If they weren't on, one of them should have. The "unclear" argument fails on its face when the sirens went off multiple times for tornado warnings since 2021. So let's stop acting like we can't read and admit that it clearly says one of the CEMA or the FD should have turned them on, quite frankly, both should have.

Beyond the fact that it's obviously not "unclear", there's no excuse for people to not be in the office on a day like Friday. We knew there was severe weather coming, they should have assumed they would have to turn the tornado sirens on.

All we can hope for is that the city isn't held liable for this failure and that the next time we are under a tornado warning, the sirens actually turn on- like they have for the last 4 years.

Some additional context regarding where people’s head were 34 min before the tornado

Auggie wrote:"Or" means that either of them can activate the sirens. If they weren't on, one of them should have. The "unclear" argument fails on its face when the sirens went off multiple times for tornado warnings since 2021. So let's stop acting like we can't read and admit that it clearly says one of the CEMA or the FD should have turned them on, quite frankly, both should have.

Beyond the fact that it's obviously not "unclear", there's no excuse for people to not be in the office on a day like Friday. We knew there was severe weather coming, they should have assumed they would have to turn the tornado sirens on.

All we can hope for is that the city isn't held liable for this failure and that the next time we are under a tornado warning, the sirens actually turn on- like they have for the last 4 years.

It’s definitely unclear. “Or” is unclear because it’s undefined ownership. Your right. Both should’ve pushed the button. Looks like they both looked at each other and didn’t do it themselves. That’s an obvious failure of protocol which contributed to an error of human judgement.

https://www.stlouis-mo.gov/government/d ... ySTL-2.pdf

The screenshot from above is from a fact sheet, not a protocol document

dbInSouthCity wrote:https://www.stlouis-mo.gov/government/d ... ySTL-2.pdf

The screenshot from above is from a fact sheet, not a protocol document

Ok. Do you have any evidence of a protocol document contradicting what that fact sheet says about who presses the button between CEMA and FD?

Don't the text alerts go to any phone in contact with a tower in the warning area?

I’ve seen numerous videos on X of people in St.Louis videoing the tornado. Whether those sirens were on or off is almost irrelevant when people don’t take warnings seriously until the event actually happens. Not making excuses but there’s plenty to blame. St.Louis was barely in the moderate risk & it’s not like St.Louis isn’t prone to tornadoes because the area has a history of strong to destructive tornadoes. I honestly believe whether sirens on or off people here just don’t take them seriously & we are absolutely lucky that there wasn’t a mass casualty event. Let’s learn from it & be together as one & not blaming who’s right who’s wrong. Likely we’ll be put in a situation like this event again sometime in the future.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

PlatinumBlues wrote:I’ve seen numerous videos on X of people in St.Louis videoing the tornado. Whether those sirens were on or off is almost irrelevant when people don’t take warnings seriously until the event actually happens. Not making excuses but there’s plenty to blame. St.Louis was barely in the moderate risk & it’s not like St.Louis isn’t prone to tornadoes because the area has a history of strong to destructive tornadoes. I honestly believe whether sirens on or off people here just don’t take them seriously & we are absolutely lucky that there wasn’t a mass casualty event. Let’s learn from it & be together as one & not blaming who’s right who’s wrong. Likely we’ll be put in a situation like this event again sometime in the future.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

The sirens going off or not is very relevant because some people do take them seriously and depend on them.

Saying "the policy existed since 2021" is a bad argument. A well written policy should last well beyond four years or any type of political change. It has multiple built in protections. The policy failing in just it's fourth tornado season isn't a good sign. Also, how do we know the same policy failure hasn't happened since 2021 but didn't end up materializing anything destructive.