- 9,564
There are a few “for later” items
The sirens
Who made the call to continue to GSL downtown party- forget optics, it’s a large street gathering that would have pulled away first responders if there was an accident.
Why is the police comms guy running comms point and not the mayor’s team.
The sirens
Who made the call to continue to GSL downtown party- forget optics, it’s a large street gathering that would have pulled away first responders if there was an accident.
Why is the police comms guy running comms point and not the mayor’s team.
- 9,564
It was a EF3 with winds 140+ and at times a mile wide according to the NWS
- 15
I don't live in the immediate area and won't go up, due to not wanting to get in the way. But does anybody know how much progress was made today in the affected areas in clean up?
- 9,564
Goal today is still ensuring life is safe and also clearing roads and sidewalks. A lot of that has been accomplished. Fire dept has also gone to all 5,000 damaged buildings at least one since last night
- 341
I'm in Kingshighway Hills and there's an isolated group of buildings without power, including mine, with no power still. Ameren still has no estimated fix. But the neighborhood has several trees and branches down.
Sent from my Pixel 8 using Tapatalk
Sent from my Pixel 8 using Tapatalk
- 6,123
To be completely fair, the whole idea is they should be sounded early enough to warn people to seek shelter before there's enough wind that any sensible person would do it anyway. So if you couldn't hear them because of the wind that at least means they didn't go off early enough, which is still a failure somewhere. And every bit as bad. In years past I heard them before serious storms all the time. This season, not so much.Debaliviere91 wrote: ↑May 17, 2025It’s not farcical at all if you were in the direct path of the storm.Ebsy wrote:In St. Louis Hills and Lindenwood Park we could faintly hear the sirens from the County (as usual) but the City sirens never went off. Perhaps something was messed up with the programming as on Thursday they went off every half hour for several hours during the daytime. Any official claiming that they couldn't be heard due to high winds is beyond farcical.
- 398
Not to take aware from the sirens, but I did get texts and calls saying to take shelter. While sometimes annoying, the texts are easier for me to get than a siren.
It'll be interesting to hear more from the NWS on the role vacancy played in the tornado and it's severity rating. I think this was a strong tornado ( high EF2) but made more violent and destructive (EF3) when given debris from vacant properties in Fountain Park and The Ville.
Tornado warnings don’t usually get issued until there actual is a tornado (or at least a radar indicated one). So someone is going to be first and without a siren going off since wherever it starts there won’t be a warning until it appears.symphonicpoet wrote: ↑May 18, 2025To be completely fair, the whole idea is they should be sounded early enough to warn people to seek shelter before there's enough wind that any sensible person would do it anyway. So if you couldn't hear them because of the wind that at least means they didn't go off early enough, which is still a failure somewhere. And every bit as bad. In years past I heard them before serious storms all the time. This season, not so much.Debaliviere91 wrote: ↑May 17, 2025It’s not farcical at all if you were in the direct path of the storm.Ebsy wrote:In St. Louis Hills and Lindenwood Park we could faintly hear the sirens from the County (as usual) but the City sirens never went off. Perhaps something was messed up with the programming as on Thursday they went off every half hour for several hours during the daytime. Any official claiming that they couldn't be heard due to high winds is beyond farcical.
I honestly wasn’t all that worried about that storm. It hadn’t really spun up any tornadoes yet and I didn’t think it was likely the first one would be basically in the city. I watch them fairly closely and the my phone saying there was a warning caught me off guard.
- 741
dbInSouthCity wrote: ↑May 17, 2025There are a few “for later” items
The sirens
Who made the call to continue to GSL downtown party- forget optics, it’s a large street gathering that would have pulled away first responders if there was an accident.
Why is the police comms guy running comms point and not the mayor’s team.
It's my understanding that Taste of Maplewood went on as schedules. At least that's what their FB post said on Fri afternoon in response to a question. Maplewood is closer to much of the destruction than downtown STL. In either case I think it was tone deaf.
- 9,564
I understand the phrase “life goes on” all too well. I lived it for three years in a war zone in Bosnia. I lived it in a refugee camp. I lived it again when I came to the United States and had to start over. Through all of that, life did go on but the party didn’t.
On Friday, while a disaster was still unfolding just two miles to the west, Greater St. Louis, Inc. decided that the party on Washington Avenue must go on. To their credit, they delayed the start time by one hour. At 6:02 p.m., as music filled the streets, the family of Garfield Lacy was standing in unbearable anguish, waiting to see if SLFD would be able to pull him from the rubble of their collapsed home.
This happened despite public pleas from the Mayor urging residents to avoid unnecessary travel. That request was made not just for public safety, but to give first responders full access to affected areas and prevent the need to divert them for avoidable emergencies elsewhere. A large event with thousands of attendees inherently creates the potential for additional incidents that could pull hundreds of police, fire, and EMS resources away from ongoing tornado response efforts.
Other organizations understood the stakes. The organizers of the Annie Malone parade, a far more logistically complex event, chose to postpone it, so it wouldn’t drain emergency resources. What could Greater St. Louis, Inc. have done? At minimum, they could have delayed the event by a day and turned it into a tornado relief benefit or like the Annie Malone organizers, they could have postponed it to a later date entirely.
Disasters always reveal who steps up and who chooses to look away. They show us who leads and who just keeps partying.
On Friday, while a disaster was still unfolding just two miles to the west, Greater St. Louis, Inc. decided that the party on Washington Avenue must go on. To their credit, they delayed the start time by one hour. At 6:02 p.m., as music filled the streets, the family of Garfield Lacy was standing in unbearable anguish, waiting to see if SLFD would be able to pull him from the rubble of their collapsed home.
This happened despite public pleas from the Mayor urging residents to avoid unnecessary travel. That request was made not just for public safety, but to give first responders full access to affected areas and prevent the need to divert them for avoidable emergencies elsewhere. A large event with thousands of attendees inherently creates the potential for additional incidents that could pull hundreds of police, fire, and EMS resources away from ongoing tornado response efforts.
Other organizations understood the stakes. The organizers of the Annie Malone parade, a far more logistically complex event, chose to postpone it, so it wouldn’t drain emergency resources. What could Greater St. Louis, Inc. have done? At minimum, they could have delayed the event by a day and turned it into a tornado relief benefit or like the Annie Malone organizers, they could have postponed it to a later date entirely.
Disasters always reveal who steps up and who chooses to look away. They show us who leads and who just keeps partying.
Not to mention, a large public event like that requires police and fire resources that were already spread thin.dbInSouthCity wrote: ↑May 18, 2025I understand the phrase “life goes on” all too well. I lived it for three years in a war zone in Bosnia. I lived it in a refugee camp. I lived it again when I came to the United States and had to start over. Through all of that, life did go on but the party didn’t.
On Friday, while a disaster was still unfolding just two miles to the west, Greater St. Louis, Inc. decided that the party on Washington Avenue must go on. To their credit, they delayed the start time by one hour. At 6:02 p.m., as music filled the streets, the family of Garfield Lacy was standing in unbearable anguish, waiting to see if SLFD would be able to pull him from the rubble of their collapsed home.
This happened despite public pleas from the Mayor urging residents to avoid unnecessary travel. That request was made not just for public safety, but to give first responders full access to affected areas and prevent the need to divert them for avoidable emergencies elsewhere. A large event with thousands of attendees inherently creates the potential for additional incidents that could pull hundreds of police, fire, and EMS resources away from ongoing tornado response efforts.
Other organizations understood the stakes. The organizers of the Annie Malone parade, a far more logistically complex event, chose to postpone it, so it wouldn’t drain emergency resources. What could Greater St. Louis, Inc. have done? At minimum, they could have delayed the event by a day and turned it into a tornado relief benefit or like the Annie Malone organizers, they could have postponed it to a later date entirely.
Disasters always reveal who steps up and who chooses to look away. They show us who leads and who just keeps partying.
- 9,564
Few in the media are chasing a story right now that maybe nobody was at the cema eoc at the time of the storm
- 6,123
I have a recollection that in years past the sirens were sounded for severe thunderstorms that could generate tornadoes, even when a tornado hadn't yet been spotted. USAF began closing Scott in advance of the storm around one or one thirty. (A friend who works there called me around that time to tell me about it, but the exact time has fallen out of my history, so I'm estimating a bit.) And there was a severe thunderstorm warning and a tornado watch in effect even before the storm.
There was information available that the storm would be severe and might produce damaging conditions. I understand that there's a concern about people disregarding warnings if there are too many of them, but the reverse of that is issuing warnings too infrequently or too late, so that there isn't enough time to react, which seems to be what happened here. Sure, I got the cell phone warning. But I could literally see the storm as I got it. (I'd been staring at it from the Kingshighway viaduct, where there was an alarmingly good view, watching the lightning arc across the entirety of the sky. And I was about two blocks from a friend's basement at that point, since I knew it was coming, though I hadn't expected it that fast.) My wife never noticed the warning at all, as she dozed in our second floor bedroom right under our lovely new roof.
In years past you could understand the "This is the emergency notification service for the City of St. Louis" from inside the house with the windows closed, but I rarely if ever hear the vocal part anymore, and the sirens are much more muted, even during tests. Even when I'm outside. There really are problems with the system. This isn't something that can just be glossed over and pawned off as "well, you can't hear it over the wind." I'm sorry. That's bullsh*t. Things are broken. They need to be fixed. That damn system saves lives. Sure, it's great we have cell phones now too, but maybe you're phone is off. Or not near you. Or maybe you don't have one. (My aunt and uncle do not.) I'm sorry. But this needs to be fixed. It needed to be fixed before, but the price will only go up as we wait.
</rant>
There was information available that the storm would be severe and might produce damaging conditions. I understand that there's a concern about people disregarding warnings if there are too many of them, but the reverse of that is issuing warnings too infrequently or too late, so that there isn't enough time to react, which seems to be what happened here. Sure, I got the cell phone warning. But I could literally see the storm as I got it. (I'd been staring at it from the Kingshighway viaduct, where there was an alarmingly good view, watching the lightning arc across the entirety of the sky. And I was about two blocks from a friend's basement at that point, since I knew it was coming, though I hadn't expected it that fast.) My wife never noticed the warning at all, as she dozed in our second floor bedroom right under our lovely new roof.
In years past you could understand the "This is the emergency notification service for the City of St. Louis" from inside the house with the windows closed, but I rarely if ever hear the vocal part anymore, and the sirens are much more muted, even during tests. Even when I'm outside. There really are problems with the system. This isn't something that can just be glossed over and pawned off as "well, you can't hear it over the wind." I'm sorry. That's bullsh*t. Things are broken. They need to be fixed. That damn system saves lives. Sure, it's great we have cell phones now too, but maybe you're phone is off. Or not near you. Or maybe you don't have one. (My aunt and uncle do not.) I'm sorry. But this needs to be fixed. It needed to be fixed before, but the price will only go up as we wait.
</rant>
- 953
Thank You!
This gobbledygook was posted via facebook
Let's take today's tornado (that I was in!). We had a preemptive warning in the city, radar indicated, ~5-10 minutes before any sort of damage begins. This alone should be enough for people to go "hmm let's just go downstairs for a bit till it rolls over" but generally people have seen enough precautionary tornado warnings in their life that haven't resulted in anything tangible, so they ignore this first one.
The initial circulation stops and a new circulation appeared over clayton (within the span of 2-3 minutes, very rapid development) and then we have multiple upgrades to the warning as soon as ground damage was confirmable on radar. The biggest problems are twofold:
1:This specific tornado developed right over the city, and did it so quickly that people had no time to prepare. Arguably, the NWS did everything they could to inform us ahead of time, and the reality is that this storm blindsided everyone that was caught inside of the circulation path as it literally dropped on top of them.
2: 90% of notifications on phones don't actually distinguish the difference between radar-indicated, observed, confirmed, PDS, and Emergencies, they just get some form of double warning with the same UI notification "Tornado Warning. Seek Shelter!"
The moment you get a second warning, people should keen in on the clue that there's probably some actual threat, because it indicates some kind of upgrade in the severity of the initial warning, regardless of if it's close to you or not. By the time I got the second warning, the tornado was almost on top of me, and I was already below ground, the best place I could have been.
THE BOTTOM LINE THERE WERE SOME AREAS THAT HERAD SIRENS OTHERS HEARD THE SIRENS FAINTLY AND S PENTLY OF PEOPLE THAT HEARD NO WARNING SIRENS!
This gobbledygook was posted via facebook
Let's take today's tornado (that I was in!). We had a preemptive warning in the city, radar indicated, ~5-10 minutes before any sort of damage begins. This alone should be enough for people to go "hmm let's just go downstairs for a bit till it rolls over" but generally people have seen enough precautionary tornado warnings in their life that haven't resulted in anything tangible, so they ignore this first one.
The initial circulation stops and a new circulation appeared over clayton (within the span of 2-3 minutes, very rapid development) and then we have multiple upgrades to the warning as soon as ground damage was confirmable on radar. The biggest problems are twofold:
1:This specific tornado developed right over the city, and did it so quickly that people had no time to prepare. Arguably, the NWS did everything they could to inform us ahead of time, and the reality is that this storm blindsided everyone that was caught inside of the circulation path as it literally dropped on top of them.
2: 90% of notifications on phones don't actually distinguish the difference between radar-indicated, observed, confirmed, PDS, and Emergencies, they just get some form of double warning with the same UI notification "Tornado Warning. Seek Shelter!"
The moment you get a second warning, people should keen in on the clue that there's probably some actual threat, because it indicates some kind of upgrade in the severity of the initial warning, regardless of if it's close to you or not. By the time I got the second warning, the tornado was almost on top of me, and I was already below ground, the best place I could have been.
THE BOTTOM LINE THERE WERE SOME AREAS THAT HERAD SIRENS OTHERS HEARD THE SIRENS FAINTLY AND S PENTLY OF PEOPLE THAT HEARD NO WARNING SIRENS!
- 9,564
No time to prepare? We’ve known for 3 days that Friday afternoon was going to bring a bad storm
The sirens already go off too often as it is, at least in the county (they need to be sectioned off so a tornado in Arnold isn’t setting off a siren in Florissant). There as one a couple weeks ago that whoever drew the line for it barely clipped STL county by Arnold so it set them off in the entire county even though it was already in Illinois. If they started setting them off for thunderstorms that might produce a tornado then people really would stop paying attention to them. I’d rather see them better targeted so that if people hear it, it really means something is coming, or at least somewhat near you.symphonicpoet wrote: ↑May 18, 2025I have a recollection that in years past the sirens were sounded for severe thunderstorms that could generate tornadoes, even when a tornado hadn't yet been spotted. USAF began closing Scott in advance of the storm around one or one thirty. (A friend who works there called me around that time to tell me about it, but the exact time has fallen out of my history, so I'm estimating a bit.) And there was a severe thunderstorm warning and a tornado watch in effect even before the storm.
There was information available that the storm would be severe and might produce damaging conditions. I understand that there's a concern about people disregarding warnings if there are too many of them, but the reverse of that is issuing warnings too infrequently or too late, so that there isn't enough time to react, which seems to be what happened here. Sure, I got the cell phone warning. But I could literally see the storm as I got it. (I'd been staring at it from the Kingshighway viaduct, where there was an alarmingly good view, watching the lightning arc across the entirety of the sky. And I was about two blocks from a friend's basement at that point, since I knew it was coming, though I hadn't expected it that fast.) My wife never noticed the warning at all, as she dozed in our second floor bedroom right under our lovely new roof.
In years past you could understand the "This is the emergency notification service for the City of St. Louis" from inside the house with the windows closed, but I rarely if ever hear the vocal part anymore, and the sirens are much more muted, even during tests. Even when I'm outside. There really are problems with the system. This isn't something that can just be glossed over and pawned off as "well, you can't hear it over the wind." I'm sorry. That's bullsh*t. Things are broken. They need to be fixed. That damn system saves lives. Sure, it's great we have cell phones now too, but maybe you're phone is off. Or not near you. Or maybe you don't have one. (My aunt and uncle do not.) I'm sorry. But this needs to be fixed. It needed to be fixed before, but the price will only go up as we wait.
</rant>
I think as mentioned above this was just one of those where it came down fast, in a populated area where there hadn’t been tornadoes already out to the west like usual setting off sirens early.
My work was also given an early release for the storm, which has been more common lately, to try to give people time to get home.
I'm glad I was at work in a much stronger building. My house was a block away from significant damage
- 9,564
This isn’t verbatim…
During last nights 7pm press conf. someone asked Sarah Russell if CEMA
was fully staffed at the EOC (which is at police hq 1915 Olive) she replied; yes, we were all at 1520 market for a workshop.
What does that mean?
During last nights 7pm press conf. someone asked Sarah Russell if CEMA
was fully staffed at the EOC (which is at police hq 1915 Olive) she replied; yes, we were all at 1520 market for a workshop.
What does that mean?