urbanSTL

If the shoe fits.

Please point to where I called anyone a racist?

What’s degrading fast on this forum is reading comprehension.

^"if the shoe fits"--that sounds like you called him racist to me.

This is ridiculous--and desperate.

Like your attempts to drag the mayor for clearly plowed streets?

If you’re dragging an objectively successful mayor in favor of her opponent whose platform is basically identical, what is one supposed to think?

Two very similar cities that have pretty much always been smaller than STL-- Cincinnati and Pittsburgh-- are now both larger than St. Louis.  Even Detroit, poster child of urban decline, has recorded its first population increase since 1950.  These are not Sunbelt cities, they are old as* industrial cities with very similar racial, economic, social and structural dynamics as STL.  Why is St. Louis the notable outlier among big legacy cities in this regard?  Why hasn't STL been able to seize the same momentum that has helped these other "has-been" cities turn the corner?  I know I speak for a LOT of people when I say our biggest challenge a lack of truly great leadership.  If you think things have been awesome and you're feeling great about the direction of the city, great!  I'm sincerely encouraged to hear that from at least some people, because I don't hear it from many.  

There are many ways to persuade people to see things differently and sell a candidate. Calling them stupid, ignorant, uninformed, blind and racist are not among them.

So theres insinuating that someone is racist for supporting a challenger to the current mayor as Jivecity experienced.

Or claiming that someone (me) is antisemitic and/ or fascist for simply using the term "academic" on an urban and dare I say it--academic--forum is not what our discussions should divulge to.

Up to the mods but JJG seems to be joining Auggie in the mud puddle here.

jivecitystl wrote: ↑

Jan 30, 2025

Two very similar cities that have pretty much always been smaller than STL-- Cincinnati and Pittsburgh-- are now both larger than St. Louis.  Even Detroit, poster child of urban decline, has recorded its first population increase since 1950.  These are not Sunbelt cities, they are old as* industrial cities with very similar racial, economic, social and structural dynamics as STL.  Why is St. Louis the notable outlier among big legacy cities in this regard?  Why hasn't STL been able to seize the same momentum that has helped these other "has-been" cities turn the corner?  I know I speak for a LOT of people when I say our biggest challenge a lack of truly great leadership.  If you think things have been awesome and you're feeling great about the direction of the city, great!  I'm sincerely encouraged to hear that from at least some people, because I don't hear it from many.  

There are many ways to persuade people to see things differently and sell a candidate. Calling them stupid, ignorant, uninformed, blind and racist are not among them.

No the difference is each of those cities participates in the greater county that surrounds and has access to a much larger tax base. Those cities, notably, don’t have anything like a Clayton sucking investment out of the city.

These cities have leadership issues just like every other city.

Slay and Krewson literally gave St. Louis 20 years of status quo, managed decline and the media never slammed them like they did Jones. I also think think Spencer is covertly playing into the racial divide as a political tactic. She has also spoken out against N-S Metrolink recently, which I find very odd. Overall, Mayor Jones has definitely done some things I can't agree with but I think she's probably the most progressive mayor we've had in a long time.

jivecitystl wrote: ↑

Jan 30, 2025

Two very similar cities that have pretty much always been smaller than STL-- Cincinnati and Pittsburgh-- are now both larger than St. Louis.  Even Detroit, poster child of urban decline, has recorded its first population increase since 1950.  These are not Sunbelt cities, they are old as* industrial cities with very similar racial, economic, social and structural dynamics as STL.  Why is St. Louis the notable outlier among big legacy cities in this regard?  Why hasn't STL been able to seize the same momentum that has helped these other "has-been" cities turn the corner?  I know I speak for a LOT of people when I say our biggest challenge a lack of truly great leadership.  If you think things have been awesome and you're feeling great about the direction of the city, great!  I'm sincerely encouraged to hear that from at least some people, because I don't hear it from many.  

There are many ways to persuade people to see things differently and sell a candidate. Calling them stupid, ignorant, uninformed, blind and racist are not among them.

What does this 70 year population thing have to do with the  mayor election tho?  Are you saying Jones should have reversed in 3.5 years?  
If you do want to legitimately tie to the election next month you can point to what candidate Spencer plans to do to reserve it.  I haven’t seen a plan yet

We do know what jones’ plan is, she wants to add 10,000 housing units by end of the decade and to do that her admin has taken steps like railway building, millennium hotel RFP, muni courts RFP.  Allocated ARPA funds for housing production and now allocating rams settlement money for housing production. Allocating money for Employee benefits to improve services.

Every time somebody points out that your argument is weak and ridiculous doesn’t mean anyone is calling you stupid or ignorant.  Make your case, that ties things to this election.  That’s all.   Wondering out loud about 70 years of bad policy that compares to elsewhere isn’t that

goat314 wrote: ↑

Jan 30, 2025

Slay and Krewson literally gave St. Louis 20 years of status quo, managed decline and the media never slammed them like they did Jones. I also think think Spencer is covertly playing into the racial divide as a political tactic. She has also spoken out against N-S Metrolink recently, which I find very odd. Overall, Mayor Jones has definitely done some things I can't agree with but I think she's probably the most progressive mayor we've had in a long time.

The Green Line would be awesome but with Trump and Hawley and Schmitt in the driver's seat there's a better chance of St. Louis seceding to Illinois than seeing any transit expansion in the next 15-20 years.  And that would be awesome too. 

jivecitystl wrote: ↑

Jan 30, 2025

]

Look, I appreciate that you think I'm passionate and intelligent. But my stances are solely in favor of the facts. The facts clearly show the city is trending up under Jones and I see no reason to make a change right now. That's why in dismissive of opinions that go directly against the facts of reality.

If the facts showed Jones was doing poorly, then I would be on the Spencer train like I was in the past. But they simply don't and I've yet to see anyone make a detailed, comprehensive argument as to why I should believe Spencer will do better than Jones. Which I beleive is imperative in deciding whether to vote out an incumbent or keep them in.

Spencer maybe deserves a shot, I don't dislike her and never have, but it's not right now. And if the roles were reversed (Spencer elected in 2021, city trending up, facing challenge from Jones), I would feel the same way. But I suspect that many in this forum and outside of it would feel entirely differently if Spencer was in office with Jones' track record. She'd be cruising to re-election as one of the city's best mayors.

This is why I think gaslighting is the only path for Team Jones. Tell people they are stupid. Tell them they don't know what's best for them (but you do).  Tell them they "don't even think Jones is bad, you just don't like her." Tell them they aren't seeing or experiencing what they actually are. Tell them St. Louis is trending up when it isn't. I wish you luck with that.

Unfortunately you are detached from reality and I guess resorting to Trump campaign tactics. If you (Auggie) are employed by or affiliated with the Jones campaign, your MO just reinforces my support for Cara Spencer. Accountability matters.  

(Unless you're working for Spencer- in that case keep up the good work!)

And now we are back to accusing people who like Jones of being employed by her. Where's Matt In STL when people are actually making personal insults?

I don't think you know what gaslighting is. Reality is that crime is down, GDP is up, city services have improved, etc etc etc. I don't really care how you or others "feel". People voting based on "feelings" is what got Trump re-elected, ousting an incumbent who had the country trending up.

The snow removal conversation across all platforms  has been a good example of the political environment in the Untied States - the “what affects me” attitude. The attitude that drives the all popular discourse to focus necessity of every workplace and residence needing a dedicated garage or parking spot right outside the front door, the traffic on one’s commute, a new development is pricing me out or causing me traffic or more crime near me…etc etc.

It’s not unique to here. That’s why the number one predictor of presidential incumbents winning or not is the “are you better off than you were 4 years ago?” In the framework of our world, people are naturally individualistic. Not being publicly engaged with the projects and movements going on with StL and the mayors office until the snow isn’t removed from the street in front of my house is the classic American mindset.

These last couple weeks has totally distracted from the issues these mayoral candidates should be talking about, not the freaking snow removal:

1) Downtown development - residential growth, office leases, and drawing retail; traffic enforcement; perception work; fast and aggressive permit allocations in the central corridor; eliminate parking minimums
2) Northside repopulation - neighborhood schools and community centers, crime, street improvements, bringing in developers (not holding up ones like Kingsway), park beautification, sidewalks and streetscaping
3) Southeast stabilization - street improvements (especially Gravois), pedestrian/biking network, targeting crime hotspots, promoting neighborhood character
4) Transit - metrolink expansion, bus routes and frequencies, safety, TOD
5) Historic preservation - particularly Old North, North Riverfront, Hyde Park corridor and Dutchtown/Carondelet; get a handle on the fires, get a handle on demo by neglect, get a handle on absentee property owners allowing properties to rot then granting demo permits (my biggest disappointment in current govt)

I want to know the plans from the candidates for the next 4 years on these issues - not arguments about street snow

yes, issues please. Unfortunately, to yours and Auggie's points, the electorate votes almost entirely based on vibes, which are easily manipulated.

THANK YOU delmar2debaliviere2downtown!
I know I'm not a smart as the other MENSA members on this forum . I'm just an old peasant 

But numerous comments on this thread ( including a number of  my own mislaid comments) have  got my head spinning as to what they're trying to get across,

FYI, you guys are being A/B tested. That's why so many of you are wondering just What is being presented here and on twitter.

This is the exact same gameplan from 2021. Expect the "Spencer is 75% of the way to being a racist" article from Ben Poremba and Umar Lee to come out any day now.

I have no idea why nobody can offer any case for how Spencer would fix some of the issues. Every reply is “stop calling me dumb, racist, ignorant”. (Which I’ve never done). I just keep asking how Spencer with a 10 year elected track record would address an issue like population loss (I laid out how Jones plans on doing it above)

Delete

dbInSouthCity wrote:I have no idea why nobody can offer any case for how Spencer would fix some of the issues. Every reply is “stop calling me dumb, racist, ignorant”. (Which I’ve never done). I just keep asking how Spencer with a 10 year elected track record would address an issue like population loss (I laid out how Jones plans on doing it above)

Anti-incumbency is a worldwide issue right now, no politician no matter how good or bad they are can avoid that. Maybe you’re too close to the election to see the global view.