urbanSTL

urban_dilettante wrote: ↑

Nov 19, 2024

^ businesses succeeded and failed prior to "influencer culture". Cherokee has struggled for as long as i've been alive. it's been "up and coming" for decades. the problem—as with everywhere in St. Louis—is lack of density and lack of foot traffic.

anyway, sad to see it close. sucks to lose both this and Earthbound at the same time.

Around Cherokee is actually as dense as you’ll find in a mid size major US metro. Fortune Teller and Earthbound didn’t necessarily fail - both were open about a decade which is not bad in that industry.

I’m not saying influencer culture killed Fortune Teller. Saying that it is the type of place that probably would’ve caught viral in a lot of cities that are riddled with influencer culture but we don’t have that in St. Louis. Therefore, places here keep their character rather than having a line of 20 somethings waiting outside so they can post that they’ve been to the tiktok tarot bar.

So I was in part making the point we should cherish that we still have an off the grid type retail street in our city but also how the market now really follows whatever is trending on insta/tik tok.

Overall just sad we lost a unique place that had an awesome bar front.

^ okay. yeah, i don't disagree. sometimes i enjoy that St. Louis flies under the radar, but the flip side is that places often struggle. i don't know that either Fortune Teller or Earthbound "failed" in the sense that they weren't somewhat profitable (it sounded like the Earthbound folks are just ready for a change), but in recent history there has been a lot of turnover on Cherokee. the neighborhood may be dense for a medium-sized midwest city, but i'm just not sure that's enough, especially with so little pedestrian activity. something just isn't clicking. the neighborhood could really use some 4-6 story multifamily a la Manchester in the Grove.

urban_dilettante wrote: ↑

Nov 19, 2024

^ businesses succeeded and failed prior to influencer culture. Cherokee has struggled for as long as i've been alive. it's been "up and coming" for decades. the problem—as with everywhere in St. Louis—is lack of density and lack of foot traffic.

anyway, sad to see it close. sucks to lose both this and Earthbound at the same time.

Cherokee CID taxable sales

Full year
2019- $19.43m
2022- $27.8m
2023- $35.7m

2024- $18m
First 6 months

^ the increase is promising. just feels like it's got quite a ways to go yet.

urban_dilettante wrote: ↑

Nov 19, 2024

^ okay. yeah, i don't disagree. sometimes i enjoy that St. Louis flies under the radar, but the flip side is that places often struggle. i don't know that either Fortune Teller or Earthbound "failed" in the sense that they weren't somewhat profitable (it sounded like the Earthbound folks are just ready for a change), but in recent history there has been a lot of turnover on Cherokee. the neighborhood may be dense for a medium-sized midwest city, but i'm just not sure that's enough, especially with so little pedestrian activity. something just isn't clicking. the neighborhood could really use some 4-6 story multifamily a la Manchester in the Grove.

Yes, there are some lots that could be filled in, especially to the south. There is also a lot of opportunity for large scale redevelopment conversions with Lemp and St. Alexius hospital.

I think Cherokee also seems to be forgotten by the central corridor as it is “out of the way” and the county customers see it as a part of the city you don’t go to. So that hurts its supplemental foot traffic.

As a micro small business street, it will of course have turnover. But man we’ve lost some cool places with Earthbound, Fortune Teller, Your Friends Apartment, So Jeff Retro, and Noir Bookshop in 2024. Though, important to note these seemed to have mostly just gone with a different business model (part of the reason micro small businesses turn over so much - lots of experimenting).

I do think Cherokee will be the single biggest winner of the green line jefferson alignment.

Cherokee seems to be finding it's legs lately, Fortune Teller and Earthbound definitely hurt but I don't see them as super indicative of the direction of the street. Earthbound has struggled with sales on a wider distribution level for the past few years and Fortune Teller I've heard was a case of the owner burning out.

A ton is happening on Cherokee lately and it really feels healthy when you walk down the street. Not a ton of vacancy and spaces are being filled with high quality businesses lately. The Rent To Own has been replaced by beautiful storefronts and will soon be hosting Good Strangers which will looks to be a sweet coffee shop. We just had that cookbook store open as well which is awesome. Vibes are good.

Keep in mind that the neighborhoods surrounding Cherokee have been slowly gentrifying this whole time, Incomes around the street will continue to rise and more of that money will continue to be spent on Cherokee.

urban_dilettante wrote: ↑

Nov 19, 2024

^ the increase is promising. just feels like it's got quite a ways to go yet.

To become what?

A group called BlocHead held a fashion show and market inside Lemp’s Grand Hall. I’m usually on top of small business happenings but I didn’t even know about this thing! It looked pretty busy and they are planning more.

Great example of why I love StL so much - we have such a unique community of people that does things new and differently but not out of social media influencing or trend setting that is often the source in many other cities. People can say we have nothing to do, but I say you won’t find many places with as many new experiences as StL can offer. If you want to love this place, you will be endeared but many move here or grow up here with a different mindset

Hope to see the Brewery complex become something great one day - I think it could be one of the coolest places in the country given the forward edge of its neighborhood, fascinating history and its stunning architecture

Cherokee was also slammed for the print bazaar a couple of weekends ago. Tremendously successful event

^which Cherokee SBD owner? If it's Cherri Elder I'm not at all surprised. She took part in Jan 6 2021 in DC and lives in JeffCo.

TheWayoftheArch_V2.0 wrote: ↑

Jan 24, 2025

tax at a restaurant should not be 11-13%

It shouldn’t? I recently had an expensive dinner in Clayton and was surprised at how the small the tax was. My first thought was “no wonder Clayton is in the red”

I don’t think they only do marketing? This would be a point again Spencer for me. Cherokee is one of the best small business incubators out there. I think it’s so close to being a premier bohemian destination in the country if the neighborhoods to the south can continue developing. They are almost over the hump but probably need another $50 million in investment to become a downright desirable urban neighborhood for all types of people.

I say keep the tax. I don’t think it’s noticed by consumers. Im okay asking the business owners to vote on it but I am assuming they are for it since it still exists.

TheWayoftheArch_V2.0 wrote: ↑

Jan 24, 2025

Nothing like an out of town, conservative landlord getting miffed she has to do her own marketing. We have to many of these, tax at a restaurant should not be 11-13%

DB, this feels like a light on details/facts (you never are) hit piece. Are you going to actively market for Jones on this forum?

As I said it was all very vague at the hudz meeting. You can watch the video on the city’s YouTube channel. Spencer kept saying how heart breaking this was to do

delmar2debaliviere2downtown wrote: ↑

Jan 24, 2025

I don’t think they only do marketing? This would be a point again Spencer for me. Cherokee is one of the best small business incubators out there. I think it’s so close to being a premier bohemian destination in the country if the neighborhoods to the south can continue developing. They are almost over the hump but probably need another $50 million in investment to become a downright desirable urban neighborhood for all types of people.

I say keep the tax. I don’t think it’s noticed by consumers. Im okay asking the business owners to vote on it but I am assuming they are for it since it still exists.

This is the SBD east of Jefferson. The CID is west of Jefferson.

The Cherokee-Lemp CID members voted to dissolve; apparently it felt not enough revenue was being generated to accomplish its goals but I'm not entirely sure. And there seems to be some discontent by some with the decision. 

Also, it sounds like the seperate Cherokee Street CID potentially may be expanded to cover the eastern section. I think the boundary between the two seperate CIDs may be Indiana Street.

Here's the map of the Cherokee Street CID. 

^ thanks, so yes, the boundary between the CIDS appears to be Indiana, one block east of Jefferson.

So again important to keep in mind the Cherokee Street CID is not affected at all by the legislation and it potentially could be expanded to include the dissolving Cherokee-Lemp CID.

There's no reason for there to be two separate taxing districts for East/West Cherokee St.

I know there are two different "vibes" based on what side of Jefferson you are on but hopefully the business owners can take this opportunity to work together.

Anecdotally when we were at Brewed Arts last August West of Jefferson was hopping (pun intended) while east of Jeff many of the antique stores weren't even open. It was mid afternoon on a  summer Saturday. Plenty of festival goers and potential shoppers  were passing their shuttered doors en route to Saturn Lounge.

There are a couple antique stores down there that pretty rough these days

Some new retail on Cherokee -

Good Strangers is a new cafe at 2614 Cherokee
Ojos Crazy is a new sports bar at 2737 Cherokee
Good-ish is a new vintage clothing store at 2610 Cherokee
O-apothecary is a new clothing store and salon/barber at 2304 Cherokee

Anchovy Book Co is a cooking store that opened back in Nov at 2619 1/2 Cherokee
Hollis Leather opened back in Nov at 2617 Cherokee

Hope to see Irish Corner Pub reopen soon

Keep getting out and supporting our most eclectic commercial street

Earthbound space is up for lease - the cave portion is so cool. Hope somebody makes good use out of it
https://wjlcompanies.com/commercial/2724-cherokee-st/

St. Louis Hop Shop appears to have closed on Cherokee Street. It's a shame because their presence was definitely a pillar to the vibe of Cherokee. It's been a long time coming (their shelves have been pretty bar the past year or so) but still sucks

Real shame if so. I tried to go in during their normal operating hours twice over the last couples months and the door was locked. Then they posted on social media for people to come in so I thought maybe they were still going. I tried to buy things from them