urbanSTL

Vista will be replaced by something called ckMorning Glory per stlmag. October open.

Not everything will always be available without a trip. That's an unreasonable expectation. What you want is everyday stuff.

for the love of god, just look at the storefront index comparison that i posted to see how poorly St. Louis compares to other cities in terms of city retail. there's a vast continuum between "everything will always be available without a trip" and the current state of retail in St. Lous city. and i'm sorry but a hardware store is an essential business. small hardware stores used to be everywhere. they were essential then, they're essential now. but like everything else they've consolidated into a handful of big boxes. and pet supply stores are middle class white culture? give me a break.

symphonicpoet wrote: ↑

Aug 31, 2018

In all honesty, it seems like far and away one of the healthiest mixes of people in town. And you keep asserting that it will somehow fall on hard times if it doesn't become more upscale, and by implication more trendy. More not immigrant. Not Mexican. You have consistently ignored the enormous concentration of unsexy but well maintained everyday services of a sort not seen anywhere else save, perhaps, the Hill.

And it's hard not to come to the conclusion that you're ignoring them because they're not there for you. You don't use them so you don't see them. This is pretty profoundly normal. We all do that sometimes. But it's important that we try to step outside it.

you're putting words in my mouth. i'm well aware of the immigrant and A-A populations and i have no desire for them to go anywhere. i was not aware that they sell men's clothing at the Mexican grocery (beyond the T-shirts in the windows) but, honestly, i'm probably not going to buy my clothes there. that's not to say others can't or shouldn't. personal style preference. my entire point is that the neighborhood should appeal to a variety of people and a variety of incomes, or even just a variety of incomes. you know what would be great? if a flood of immigrants moved in, bought up the crumbling houses, and rehabbed them. then we'd still see more and varied businesses move in to cater to the additional population. i'm talking about getting to a denser, more car-optional, more functional city. you're talking about preserving the neighborhood in its current state. nobody has yet answered the question as to whether the success of Cherokee has spurred significant investment in the surrounding neighborhood. take a walk around; vacant and crumbling buildings are still plentiful.

I live less than a block south of Cherokee and find that most of my daily needs can be met on foot. I walk or bike to Liberty Hardware on near the intersection of Jefferson/Chippewa/Broadway and they're super helpful. I've never bought clothes on Cherokee besides t-shirts at the STL Style Shop, but there are are at least three Latino stores that sell new clothing/shoes/boots/etc. for the whole family (and I almost bought a pair of shoes at the economic shop a few weeks ago). We also have two tailor shops that will do custom clothing for men or women (that I use now and again for alterations), and an woman's boutique where Bridge Bread used to be. A lot of us are pretty happy with the selection of shopping and dining that we already have! I don't have pets, but I'm pretty sure Save-a-lot can fill that need...

Also, rehabs are going on at an astounding rate on both sides of Cherokee. It's really remarkable.

This is admittedly tangential to the discussion on this thread, but Cherokee-related: can someone who is more knowledgeable in urban planning than I am explain to me why is it that most business districts/hip areas in St Louis tend to develop in a single stretch of a road/street, as opposed to more block-based development? I am thinking of Cherokee, The Grove, South Grand, Washington Ave as prime examples. The Central West End is a little bit like this too, with a lot of business development at Euclid but very little outside. Also Maplewood/Manchester (even though there seems to be some "orthogonal" development in Big Bend). The only exceptions I can think of are Soulard (and even then very little retail besides bars and the occasional restaurant), and the corner of Mississipi and Park on Lafayette Square (which is only one block).

^Speculation on my part, but maybe a lot of retail corridors developed around the time that streetcars (initially horse-pulled, later electric) were developing, so they tended to develop in a linear fashion along a streetcar line, rather than in a block-by-block strictly pedestrian-oriented downtown pattern.

I was thinking of this same development pattern during a trip to Chicago last weekend. The South Side has some similar trends - I spent time on 47th, 53rd and 79th, all of which are commercial corridors with primarily residential neighborhoods on either side of them.

It might even have something to do with zoning laws. Soulard is the rare surviving neighborhood that predates zoning laws.

I would guess the answer is a combination of all of those. Street car routes (or some other factor) caused the buildings suited to retail to be built along a single street with residential on the surrounding blocks. Now when these areas are redeveloping, the properties suited to business still exist along those routes and there are plenty of vacant store fronts to work with. Opening businesses on surrounding streets would require reworking residential property for commercial use and/or rezoning and is probably more hassle than just moving into a vacant space.

That being said, there are some examples of corner market/corner bar type buildings off the main drag but I'm guessing they are not an attractive option given today's auto centric economy because 1. they don't see enough traffic to attract new customers and 2. even if you had, for example, a successful restaurant, that you relocated and could count on a certain number of your clientele following you to the new location, you would have to find a way to account for parking (and wouldn't we all like a surface parking lot in an otherwise residential neighborhood).

An interesting multi-venue interactive public art project coming to Cherokee this Summer:

"Counterpublic is a public art platform scaled to a neighborhood. Organized by The Luminary, Counterpublic 2019 will bring groundbreaking contemporary art to the barbershops, bakeries, parks, and taquerias that anchor the Cherokee Street neighborhoods of South St. Louis and act as gathering spaces for the diverse residents living in the area.
The project centers on a series of twenty-plus site-responsive commissions in venues as divergent as a tea shop, punk club, former sanctuary, Buddhist temple, Mexican panaderia, and community-organized park and basketball court.
Works will range from architectural interventions to archival community-led sessions, meal-based gatherings to dramatic public processions. Spanning three months from April 13th to July 13th, the project is meant to be a layered, nuanced neighborhood-based platform that engages the complex community organizing, conflicted politics, radical openings, and distressing developments that intertwine within Cherokee Street and its surrounding neighborhoods. Together, Counterpublic intends to advance new contexts of liberation, care, complexity, and dissent into the everyday spaces of our neighborhood through responsive commissions and intentional intersections among the many publics and counterpublics of this place."

https://counterpublic.us/

Rough month for Cherokee

Closings
Down Under Restaurant, 1141 Colonnade Center, Des Peres
Frankly on Cherokee, 2744 Cherokee Street, Cherokee District
Hiro Asian Kitchen, 1405 Washington Avenue, Downtown
Hugo's Pizzeria, 3135 Olive Street, Midtown
Living Room, 5760 Chippewa Road, Southampton
Propaganda, 2732 Cherokee Street, Cherokee District
Soulard Gyro, 2022 South 12th Street, Soulard (relocation)
TBD Bar + Social, 15 Ludwig Drive, Fairview Heights, Illinois
Tea Rex, 2710 Cherokee Street, Cherokee District 

https://www.riverfronttimes.com/foodblo ... s-may-2019

Thanks for posting the article as it gives some good context, 9 closings but 16 openings.  Its a tough business and I don't really comprehend nor understand how much the market can change and trend from year to year, location to location   

I'm in contracting and current employer is coming up on 45 years in business and a previous employer had existed and still in existence over 100 years later.   On the flip side, hose numbers must be tough to comprehend for those in the local restaurant business 

Mac's Local Eats is leaving Dogtown on August 31 to join Bluewood Brewing, which hasn't opened yet, on Cherokee Street. 

Article for those interested. Sounds like tension at the old location. 

"Mac's Local Eats/Mac's Local Buys and Tamm have decided it's in the best interest of all parties to move forward in different directions," McKenzie said in a statement

https://www.stltoday.com/entertainment/ ... 7ac81.html

The location was obviously great in a stable neighborhood by Forest Park.  But I think Bluewood will really bring out a different experience.  Of course a Busch and a burger is great, but Bluewood makes great beer, and the space is beautiful.

Also, the pork sandwich there deserves some love too.  Lots of great food.  I don't doubt the burger joint will do great there, but I'm not so sure on the market.  Hopefully so.

BellaVilla wrote: ^This makes sense. Mac's is far too popular for the space available in that building. Half of the bar is unusable basically every night because the line to the walk-up window is so long. Wait times are often >45min just to place your order.

However, and I don't mean to be judgmental, much of the crowd I see it Mac's in dogtown don't strike me as the types that are interested in going down to Cherokee. JMO

This is just what Cherokee needs.  Established businesses and associated patrons will offer great chance to introduce folks who've never been to Cherokee.  Nothing wrong with the DIY attitude in Cherokee, but the turn over speaks for itself.  Too many places.  Not enough business.  More bodies are needed to patronize the neighborhood and give the whole area a better chance attaining success/stability.  The old Dogtown space will be filled quickly, I'm sure.

Can the City of St. Louis subsidize their burgers so more people can enjoy them?

Seems like the real issues facing us.  We all might be a bit nicer to each other.

Very happy with the move - tried to go to the Dogtown location a couple times just to face lines coming outside of the bar. Now I can just bike there!

Foam is done

^ I think they said someone else bought the building or something? Any idea on that?

I was surprised to see the announcement. I had no idea Foam was still open. I thought they were supposed to have closed some months ago?

Byrd & Barrel on Jefferson just south of Cherokee is closed, permanently.

https://www.riverfronttimes.com/foodblo ... re-closing

They're planning a new, larger Byrd & Barrel at Watson & Hampton.

A shame.  You'd think their small dining room footprint and drive thru window would make them a little bit more Covid-rugged.  Probably won't go there very often at the new location, unfortunately.

I'm just happy that they aren't closing permanently, I love me some Byrd and Barrel. If we get lucky this can be an opportunity to replace the building with something urban and mixed use.

$1.5M building permit issued for BeLeaf Medical 1315 Cherokee

That's the tin buildings on the north side of the street across from where the recent collapse at Lemp occurred. The same owner owns those, as well.