Metrolink Expansion?

RockChalkSTL · PostJun 01, 2024#12012024-06-01T13:07+00:00

Somebody suggested a Lindbergh MetroLink stop. I'm pretty convinced that a stop closer to McKelvey Rd. would be better for SSM Health DePaul and the retail in the area. St. Charles Rock Rd. might be worthy of another stop as well.

Rather than end completely in St. Charles city, I'd rather see the line follow I-70 and go out at least as far as Mid-Rivers Mall in St. Peters, but then I'd also want St. Charles County to develop a bus system and join Metro in that way as well.

GoHarvOrGoHome · PostJun 01, 2024#12022024-06-01T16:55+00:00

The Blanchette Bridge is nearing EOL, a new span could be designed to handle train traffic on a separate deck like the Eads. Probably the best opportunity we have to get across the river anytime in the next couple decades

quincunx · PostJun 01, 2024#12032024-06-01T18:13+00:00

Hey an opportunity for the state to chip in!

imperialmog · PostJun 01, 2024#12042024-06-01T20:50+00:00

GoHarvOrGoHome wrote: ↑
Jun 01, 2024
The Blanchette Bridge is nearing EOL, a new span could be designed to handle train traffic on a separate deck like the Eads. Probably the best opportunity we have to get across the river anytime in the next couple decades

That is a smart idea. have the replacement bridge designed with it in mind along with adding pedestrian/bike pathway. Have no idea on what the view of people in St. Charles County, particularly the eastern part is on mass transit now but it almost certainly is not the same as in the 90s. Will even be moreso since the strongest source of opposition is not going to be around much longer due to age.

There are some obvious areas where a line would work and there are likely other elements that can be added for improving a transit system in the area between St. Charles and the airport.

Tim · PostJun 01, 2024#12052024-06-01T22:15+00:00

The vast majority of St. Charles County residents, young and old, live on a cul-de-sac. Are we that confident that the "new generation" will be significantly more supportive than the old one? I hope so, but I'm not super optimistic.

quincunx · PostJun 01, 2024#12062024-06-01T23:01+00:00

I'm not either. Maybe just the part of St. Charles city that has a traditional development pattern. Otherwise let's build it where it's wanted and where land uses that can properly leverage it will be allowed to be built.

I think going to Edwardsville would be a better option than deep into St. Charles County.

Debaliviere91 · PostJun 01, 2024#12072024-06-01T23:05+00:00

I don’t think going far into St Charles County is feasible, but I think a line going to Old Town St Charles / Lindenwood would get more use than one through North City.

imperialmog · PostJun 02, 2024#12082024-06-02T15:22+00:00

The way development patterns and how housing is built in St. Charles County would make transit overall hard to do in areas where its a long distance to get out of your subdivision. One other element is how much movement is there in St. Charles County on planning that involves infill, redevelopment for more density, and improving walkability to where one can do more things without needing a car? Since wouldn't redevelopment of older post-WWII suburban-type development start to make more sense due to some areas are starting to get rather old?

TheWayoftheArch_V2.0 · PostJun 03, 2024#12092024-06-03T14:48+00:00

I’m also skeptical that Edwardsville would want Metrolink. Didn’t they just pass sone sort of legislation to secede from IL?

imperialmog · PostJun 03, 2024#12102024-06-03T15:26+00:00

TheWayoftheArch_V2.0 wrote: ↑
Jun 03, 2024
I’m also skeptical that Edwardsville would want Metrolink. Didn’t they just pass sone sort of legislation to secede from IL?

The question is what happens in these areas as the Baby Boomer generation declines in political power, since they are still the strongest generation politically. Since a lot of this white flight related and this (and the couple generations prceding) were the generations involved in that process. I don't know if we have fully processed how post-Boomer politics will go.

stlokc · PostJun 03, 2024#12112024-06-03T17:00+00:00

I imagine a line that went to "old" St. Charles city, as far west as Lindenwood, might be welcomed.

But as for the rest of the county, I endorse the idea that the attitudes aren't what might be thought about just using a demographic lens. I used to work in Lake St. Louis and the vast majority of people I worked with were from the western half of St. Charles county or even out to Troy or Warrenton. We're not talking about boomers/older people; it was a pretty young office, lots of young families, people in their 20s and 30s. Not one of them had much interest in the city or inner St. Louis county at all beyond a Cards game, zoo or a random special occasion dinner. Here's the thing, as the years slip by, fewer and fewer of those families out there have any connection at all to the city. They weren't really "anti-city" honestly. They just didn't care one way or the other. Something like light rail to connect to downtown - you might as well be talking about something on the moon.

STLEnginerd · PostJun 03, 2024#12122024-06-03T18:47+00:00

The odds that a new bridge crossing the Missouri will be built for Metrolink are 0%.

Any metro link to St. Charles would have to cross on an existing bridge. which means either the Blanchete, Wabash, or the Discovery Bridge are the only ways over the river, and none are particularly convienient to Old town or Lindenwood.

I wish they had kept the old Rock Road Bridge for this reason, but they didn't. I've heard it said that might be why they tore it down.

The only way it works to me as currently configured is a line down I70 that transfers to an local network of buses or streetcars in downtown st. charles. Right now they has the old timey free streetcar (bus) that circulates through the key tourist spots and even being free its not so heavily used as a transit option so i just don't see a local network in downtown stc as a priority for them.

Also consider as a value proposition for the if St Charles join the metrolink funding model they would logically want their tax dollar to be spent on capital investment in stc and serve stc residents and businesses. I think building a proposal around that fundamental would improve the probability of them eventually joining the system but i just think its still a few decades off.

imperialmog · PostJun 03, 2024#12132024-06-03T19:41+00:00

STLEnginerd wrote: ↑
Jun 03, 2024
The odds that a new bridge crossing the Missouri will be built for Metrolink are 0%.

The goal for this would be to have it designed for a Blanchette replacement since the older span is starting to approach end of life.

As noted the outer part of St. Charles County a lot of people don't have much opinion or visit the city much anyway and guessing likely not many commute into the City or County with any regularity.

As for Metrolink it would only make sense to around Mid Rivers Mall unless there are changes in land use and travel patterns. Anything further out regional rail would make more sense, though the NS line is only single tracked from the airport out west making it hard to do unlike other rail lines in the metro area.

Any system in St. Charles County would likely be geared towards local trips in the county and not towards St. Louis County or City, though would be some links and easy transit access to the airport would be a good selling point.

STLEnginerd · PostJun 04, 2024#12142024-06-04T16:49+00:00

imperialmog wrote: ↑
Jun 03, 2024
STLEnginerd wrote: ↑
Jun 03, 2024
The odds that a new bridge crossing the Missouri will be built for Metrolink are 0%.
The goal for this would be to have it designed for a Blanchette replacement since the older span is starting to approach end of life.

As noted the outer part of St. Charles County a lot of people don't have much opinion or visit the city much anyway and guessing likely not many commute into the City or County with any regularity.

As for Metrolink it would only make sense to around Mid Rivers Mall unless there are changes in land use and travel patterns. Anything further out regional rail would make more sense, though the NS line is only single tracked from the airport out west making it hard to do unlike other rail lines in the metro area.

Any system in St. Charles County would likely be geared towards local trips in the county and not towards St. Louis County or City, though would be some links and easy transit access to the airport would be a good selling point.

Short of down town ther is no density that would justify much of a network and from a county perspective the volume of people receiving a service would be a small percentage of stc residents since to bulk live in hinterlands like st peters, and wentsville. Any system in stc will be funded via stc city, not stc county which is not a models that squares with metrolink.

Basically, IMHO there is just no way this is happening antime soon.

TheWayoftheArch_V2.0 · PostJun 04, 2024#12152024-06-04T19:28+00:00

Again, I concur that StC big draw would be a park n ride from SofSC or LU for access to airport and nearby employers, earth city, and potentially UMSL. Ideally that spur would also hit Westport. It’s about regional connectivity not necessarily getting them downtown.

STLEnginerd · PostJun 05, 2024#12162024-06-05T16:05+00:00

TheWayoftheArch_V2.0 wrote: ↑
Jun 04, 2024
Again, I concur that StC big draw would be a park n ride from SofSC or LU for access to airport and nearby employers, earth city, and potentially UMSL. Ideally that spur would also hit Westport. It’s about regional connectivity not necessarily getting them downtown.

i was just speaking to the politics. STC city could be on board, but the county is leagues away from joining EW Gateway and Metro System.

Also Park and Rides are lame. People living adjacent to transit using transit to businesses adjacent to transit is the sustainable model.

TheWayoftheArch_V2.0 · PostJun 05, 2024#12172024-06-05T18:55+00:00

The Park and Ride would bd for the hinterlanders. Both LU students and/or Streets of St. Charles residents could be meaningful transit users. My point is that their destinations would be different from our typical expectations.

RockChalkSTL · PostAug 18, 2024#12182024-08-18T18:34+00:00

After rejecting all four of the MetroLink expansion options for the green line, it was said in some articles that St. Louis County might reveal more insight into their transit desires this fall.

It sounded like some in St. Louis County want a Ferguson line from the UMSL North station on the red line. Others might want a blue line extension to Westport Plaza. Others might just want BRT lines.

Does anybody have any knowledge about what might be coming?

Chris Stritzel · PostAug 18, 2024#12192024-08-18T19:11+00:00

In my humble opinion, I'd like to see the line constructed alongside 170 from where the Blue Line turns to head towards downtown Clayton. Such a route connects to the developments at Delmar and Olive, opens up the door for other development zones, and gives travelers the ability to get to the airport without first entering the City and transferring.

Hypothetically, this is fairly easy to do up to Page as you could eliminate the Centennial Greenway and run the MetroLink next to Costco and then use some old rail ROW up to just past Page (where a warehouse stops the old rail ROW from continuing north).

GoHarvOrGoHome · PostAug 18, 2024#12202024-08-18T20:07+00:00

I believe the ultimate vision is for the Centennial greenway to mostly run alongside the future Metrolink corridor.

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Auggie · PostAug 19, 2024#12212024-08-19T18:57+00:00

I just really hope STL County chooses MetroLink as opposed to nothing or BRT. A North County or Wesport line would do well I think. Would greatly expand our transit connectivity. What the county desperately needs to do is invest in development around its stations.

If they ultimately pass on the Green Line, maybe someday it could be come the city's dedicated line with expansions throughout the city, I'm imagining something like the Boston Green Line or even San Francisco's Muni Metro. But that's assuming it's such a development success that there's tons of political will towards expanding it and that's decades away at best.

RockChalkSTL · PostAug 19, 2024#12222024-08-19T19:27+00:00

A line to Ferguson would make a lot of sense, in particular if they could go further north to Florissant.

Florissant should absolutely be on the MetroLink system. Bonus points if they can get the trains into Old Town Florissant.

But I also do love the idea of a Westport Plaza line, especially if the blue line can also be extended further south from Shrewsbury. I'd love to see it go all the way south to South County Center.

I went into SCC over the weekend and was blown away by how many empty storefronts are in the place. Its days are numbered. If you could get trains down to that exact same spot in a decade or two, it would be awesome to see that land used in a more urban, transit-oriented way.

STLEnginerd · PostAug 19, 2024#12232024-08-19T19:42+00:00

Personally the Westport line seems like it would have very low ridership unless there was a concerted effort to develop in a dense urban way along the line. Probably the same for all other options as well. The county is not built densely enough for metrolink to really work.

Now one could read this two different ways. One way is don't bother building it. The other is build it with coordinated effort from many developers to develop the stops so that they support ridership necessary to justify the line.

addxb2 · PostAug 19, 2024#12242024-08-19T20:13+00:00

St. Louis County and the general pro-transit movement in STL would be better off creating a massive TOD revolving loan fund with this money.

Doubling ridership while generating a massive building boom in transit adjacent St. Louis County is the fastest way to build even more transit. Right now, the argument for any new service in St. Louis County is weak.

RockChalkSTL · PostAug 19, 2024#12252024-08-19T20:28+00:00

STLEnginerd wrote: ↑
Aug 19, 2024
Personally the Westport line seems like it would have very low ridership unless there was a concerted effort to develop in a dense urban way along the line. Probably the same for all other options as well. The county is not built densely enough for metrolink to really work.

Now one could read this two different ways. One way is don't bother building it. The other is build it with coordinated effort from many developers to develop the stops so that they support ridership necessary to justify the line.

I'm definitely in that second camp.

In that last post, I said that it'd be nice to see the land at South County Center retrofitted for more urban and transit-oriented use. Hopefully, the city and the county would be in agreement on upzoning areas around stations and making sure that quality TOD is installed along any new -- or existing -- routes.

There is still plenty of TOD opportunity around the blue and red lines in both Missouri and Illinois.

Metrolink Expansion?

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