urbanSTL

No wins comprehensively by 58 percent. Can't see the Royals coming back for a DT redo after such a heavy defeat. KC needed this bad man. It's a car centric mess even compared to STL.

Great call KC! I mean that. This was a rushed plan to support billionaires. I love a downtown stadium, I do believe they create economic value. That doesn’t mean they can’t also be a profitable and pay for their fields/arenas.

I also don’t think KC is at risk of actually losing the teams. Although they ranked 28/32 in MLB attendance last year and should be an incredible contender for Nashville, they have a local owner.

The downtown stadium idea isn’t dead. Royals made good progress on addressing things the past few days, but time ran out. They signed a comprehensive community benefits agreement with the Crossroads neighborhood this morning, agreed to keep Oak Street open, signaled their support to preserve buildings east of Oak, and got agreements with Resurrection Church to purchase their properties in the stadium footprint. If the team was serious on going downtown, they’d just present these revisions as their new plan and advance it.

If they did it right, they could hypothetically leave a sales tax behind and get it done. They could seek a sales tax on their own district and a sales tax exemption on construction materials, but those are minimal asks.

I’m not upset by tonight’s vote. I recall when MLS4TheLou lost people thought it was the end of the world. But… look at the better deal St. Louis ended up getting. Not saying the Royals will pull a similar move, but it would be beneficial to the mission of going downtown.

Chris Stritzel wrote: ↑

Apr 03, 2024

The downtown stadium idea isn’t dead. Royals made good progress on addressing things the past few days, but time ran out. They signed a comprehensive community benefits agreement with the Crossroads neighborhood this morning, agreed to keep Oak Street open, signaled their support to preserve buildings east of Oak, and got agreements with Resurrection Church to purchase their properties in the stadium footprint. If the team was serious on going downtown, they’d just present these revisions as their new plan and advance it.

If they did it right, they could hypothetically leave a sales tax behind and get it done. They could seek a sales tax on their own district and a sales tax exemption on construction materials, but those are minimal asks.

I’m not upset by tonight’s vote. I recall when MLS4TheLou lost people thought it was the end of the world. But… look at the better deal St. Louis ended up getting. Not saying the Royals will pull a similar move, but it would be beneficial to the mission of going downtown.

It shouldn’t be used as an excuse not to get it done. They can afford to pay for it if they REALLY want to be there. If they are more concerned about not paying themselves they will go to Kansas.

What makes people think suburban Kansas would give the Chiefs billions if Jackson County didn't? I wouldn't be surprised at all if both the Chiefs and Royals leave KC. Midsized markets unfortunately are pitted against each other for sports franchises and if KC doesn't want to play to pay, there will be a half a dozen other markets willing to pay. Sad day for KC. I still think St. Louis is recovering from losing the Rams, it's always a major civic blow to a city to lose sports franchises and whether people want to admit it or not, having assets like major sports franchises does help promote the region.

goat314 wrote: ↑

Apr 03, 2024

What makes people think suburban Kansas would give the Chiefs billions if Jackson County didn't? I wouldn't be surprised at all if both the Chiefs and Royals leave KC. Midsized markets unfortunately are pitted against each other for sports franchises and if KC doesn't want to play to pay, there will be a half a dozen other markets willing to pay. Sad day for KC. I still think St. Louis is recovering from losing the Rams, it's always a major civic blow to a city to lose sports franchises and whether people want to admit it or not, having assets like major sports franchises does help promote the region.

There’s zero indication either team will leave Metro KC over this. It would be death for the Chiefs and would mean a significant walk back for the Royals ownership (John Sherman and Patrick Mahomes). Sherman recently commented that the team will remain in KC, but didn’t toss out the idea of them leaving Jackson County. I suspect you’ll see a decoupling of the Chiefs and Royals, the Royals putting forward a revised Crossroads plan and either A: Getting money from KCMO government or B: Going at it solo.

Sherman is a hometown guy so I suspect other options in the metro will be looked at before a relocation or a sale but it's just more sprawl which KC needs like a hole in the head, could be looking at Chiefs at Legends and Royals somewhere in JoCo, although I am very skeptical about suburban baseball in a small market like KC, it's not and never will be Atlanta. KCMO is being strangled by all these car centric KS projects and even losing just one of the two teams is going to further pull the epicenter away from Downtown. It just sucks. You have a disasterous cocktail here of suburban eastern Jackson County people who are used to having the teams on their doorstep and have a misplaced fear over traffic and crime. There's the social justice groups who see a Downtown move as attacking the little man, then you have the anti public money types. Unfortunately little of substance gets done in America, especially outwith the mega metros which does not involve some sort of state financing. The K is done. The stadium itself is okay but the surrounding area is just a total *hole. The view of i70, a burnt out Denny's, the fellowship of Christian athletes and the abandoned Adams Mark hotel, it's just embarrassing but people are so wrapped up in cars and parking here they don't care. Their personal convenience matters most.

State of MO may step in if they're still reeling from losing the Rams, but that's solely with the Chiefs don't see them taking any interest in the Royals.

With the A's and the Rays more or less settled at this point the Royals become the next big target. Even if MLB goes to 32 you're going to have probably another 5/6 cities who miss out and see the Royals as a vulnerable target to poach.

There's a lot of hand wringing on the other side of the state after this vote, from KCRag:

Post by chingon » Tue Apr 02, 2024 8:53 pm
Well, the Royals are gone for sure, just like they wanted. 50 years was a good run, I guess, for a small town.

Post by Rusty Irish » Tue Apr 02, 2024 9:12 pm
Moved here as an outsider and feel regardless of location there's an insurmountable car centric mentality that just can't be defeated. Makes me want to consider my options and start to look elsewhere. Reaction over the next few weeks is key but it's an uphill battle.

Post by Anthony_Hugo98 » Tue Apr 02, 2024 10:11 pm
It is mildly concerning to see the amount of the “vote no” crowd who genuinely believe that no matter what happens neither team will ever leave the metro. These people are wildly ignorant or incredibly sheltered to genuinely believe that another city won’t be rolling out the red carpet should either team ask.

It’s hard for me to see any scenario where the Chiefs leave the metro, even if it means going to Kansas.

Royals although I think it’s pretty doubtful I think it has to be somewhat in play. Having an owner that seems to want to stay helps though. If it was an out of town owner I think it would be much more in play. They have said they aren’t renewing their lease so if nothing is worked out 5 years from now I think things start to get dicey. But it’s a long way until that point still.

^ With respect to Royals, I think read that Sherman said 2030 is the last year @ Kaufmann so they don't really have a lot of time (1-2 yrs) when you consider stadium construction timelines. Not sure why 2030 is the deadline and if that date is amendable.

**EDIT** - reading more about this, the lease expires after 2030 and I guess the Royals don't feel they can renovate the K. Lots happening today, someone is reporting the Chiefs met with Kansas officials and Sherman's wife came out and said that KC would be lucky to keep both teams in Kansas, let alone in KCMO.

Scenario for everyone. Imagine a world where the City of St. Louis was the one voting to keep MLB downtown. Let’s say it’s rejected 60/40. The county and state appear unwilling to contribute significantly.

Illinois jumps in the next day with an offer to bring them to Metro East, maybe East Riverfront.

Understanding that some would be legitimately concerned about budget impacts to the city and downtown… would the average St. Louis Cardinals fan really care?

I personally think the cardinals being downtown is essential it’ll almost feel like they left the metro area entirely if they relocated to the metro east the same with the blues. We here in St.Louis are so darn fortunate to make it all work even through the darkest times. Now if we can continue to build momentum in rehabs and new construction particularly residential we’d have a great downtown also somehow get rid of I-44 to reconnect our national monument with the rest of downtown. I think the royals will end up staying in KC & likely get the downtown stadium they want even if the state has to help the state the chiefs different Kansas seems to have the leverage of momentum now even heard reports of Dallas being interested in luring them there to have 2 teams.

pdm_ad wrote: ↑

Apr 03, 2024

^ With respect to Royals, I think read that Sherman said 2030 is the last year @ Kaufmann so they don't really have a lot of time (1-2 yrs) when you consider stadium construction timelines. Not sure why 2030 is the deadline and if that date is amendable.

**EDIT** - reading more about this, the lease expires after 2030 and I guess the Royals don't feel they can renovate the K. Lots happening today, someone is reporting the Chiefs met with Kansas officials and Sherman's wife came out and said that KC would be lucky to keep both teams in Kansas, let alone in KCMO.

I think as long as they got a plan before the lease was up they would just play year to year there until the stadium is done. But once the lease is up, if there still isn’t a plan then all bets are off.

Chiefs in Dallas?...not as long as Jerry Jones is still the owner of the Cowboys.  He will not let that happen! 

I just wonder when the Cardinals are going to want a massive overhaul of Busch III. 

That day is probably not as far away as one would think

Add “Host 100,000 local sports fans across three venues Downtown” to the list of things you can do in St. Louis but not Kansas City. Right under “Fly to Europe”

Sorry, too mean/soon?

addxb2 wrote: ↑

Apr 07, 2024

Add “Host 100,000 local sports fans across three venues Downtown” to the list of things you can do in St. Louis but not Kansas City. Right under “Fly to Europe”

Sorry, too mean/soon?

You’re not wrong or mean about it. People here throw a fit when a convention is in town, or an event is going on at T-Mobile Center, because there’s small patches of traffic from people circling the same 4 blocks for parking. I live in the heart of downtown KC and never had any problem with traffic, or parking, when a convention was going on, an event at Municipal Auditorium, and something at T-Mobile. But people b****. In all those instances though, it shows a flaw with the streetcar sharing Main with cars from 10th to Truman. Drivers use Main Street to access garages despite other entrances on the numbered streets or on Walnut and Baltimore.

addxb2 wrote:Add “Host 100,000 local sports fans across three venues Downtown” to the list of things you can do in St. Louis but not Kansas City. Right under “Fly to Europe”

Sorry, too mean/soon?

That’s not mean it’s the truth & the people of Kansas City don’t hesitate or hold back their hatred of St.Louis. Think if the blues were in town yesterday that be 120,000 plus folks patronizing our downtown were very fortunate to have our venues in the heart of our region.


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GoHarvOrGoHome wrote: ↑

Apr 05, 2024

That day is probably not as far away as one would think

https://www.stlpr.org/economy-business/ ... ons-dewitt

I knew the day was coming. You could feel it in the wind. 

Eighteen years after opening, Busch Stadium III is now a mid-tier MLB park and it felt obvious to me that the Cardinals would want upgrades in the near future, regardless of where they are or are not with their Ballpark Village promises.

GoHarvOrGoHome wrote: ↑

Apr 17, 2024

GoHarvOrGoHome wrote: ↑

Apr 05, 2024

That day is probably not as far away as one would think

https://www.stlpr.org/economy-business/ ... ons-dewitt

A clicky headline and a lot of article to just say they MAY ask for funding with really no details.

Better headline would have been something about was the investment last time worth it. But that wouldn’t get the clicks.

In the Crossroads, demoliton is well underway on the old bank and nightclub at 1818-1822 Main for a high-rise residentual building by Copaken Brooks. The project grew in scope since being approved previously. It gained 2-floors and 29 apartments to now be 16-stories/191ft and 147 apartments. A small retail space and integrated parking are planned here as well. The revised plans go before the Planning Commission in May. It's concerning that demolition is proceding with a revision in scope still needing to be approved.














SomeraRoad started demoliton on the Weld Wheel Building in the West Bottoms a few weeks back. This is the start of their massive redevelopment efforts down there...














In the River Market, construction has finally started on the 3rd and Grand project. It's taken many years to get to this point and many versions of the project (orginally office, now residential). It's the first of four "big" River Market developments expected to begin this year. the others include the Oaks (other corner of 3rd and Grand), Atlas 303 Broadway, and City Harvest/5th and Main).





The Berkeley Riverfront Park is on a roll recently with the Streetcar extension now underway, CPKC Stadium open, the Origin Hotel preparing to open, new sand Volleyball Courts nearing completion, and the "Two Birds-One Stone" beer garden being fully erected. The KC Current's ownership is still panning their large mixed-use development that'll more or less finish the build-out of the Berkeley Riverfront.



On Kenwood Avenue, a half-block South of 39th Street, this small 9-unit apartment building recently sprouted up. It's nearing completion.