urbanSTL

So a bit of a post mortem on the trip: The Lincoln service was nice. Pleasant, even. I'm struck by the fact that the oldest cars on the train, and those with the most problems, have the business class seats. Don't get me wrong, I love the Amfleet cars. They're lovely. But the one we were riding definitely needed TLC. The new cars are bright, airy, and comparatively quiet. The top speeds were basically as advertised. Best speed I clocked with my phone of questionable accuracy was 111. Made the trip in a shade under five hours, basically as advertised. It really does beat driving in many ways.

As to east coast service . . . I was quite surprised to find that Amtrak still uses a boatload of Metroliners on local and regional trains there. And Accela, while fast, really isn't a particularly great service. The cars are surprisingly worn for a service that bills itself as "first class."

And dear god, Amtrak, fix your food offerings. The one thing they had going for them was good food. They have chucked that out the vestibule door. (Since they won't allow unsealed windows near their trains anymore. Even though their AC is . . . a tad inconsistent.)

Anyway, the trip was generally good, and I like what Illinois is doing. But Amtrak is going to Amtrak. Go figure. Yeah, yeah, the funding is awful. I get it. And they deserve better. But it's still disappointing.

California high speed rail can't come fast enough.

All 7 trains from Chicago to STL are sold out tomorrow.

dbInSouthCity wrote:All 7 trains from Chicago to STL are sold out tomorrow.

Any plans for longer trains?

Biden admin has poured many billions in expanding Amtrak

Every weekend or holiday seems to be impossible to book a ticket without planning well ahead.

The capacity issues seem to be mostly from Bloomington to Chicago. South of Springfield it's fairly quiet.

We need more trains, preferrably in the middle of the day, when there's a massive hole in the schedule.

I have a friend CHI-STL-CHI this weekend also. Route could probably support three more round trips per day. It would be great if St. Louis city/county could find $2-4M annually to incentivize IL to do so.

IMO, would be money well spent and on par for 3x weekly trips to Frankfurt.

dbInSouthCity wrote: ↑

Sep 24, 2023

Biden admin has poured many billions in expanding Amtrak

I think the thing to note is that Biden Admin/Infrastructure funds will pour billions into Amtrak.  Splitting words on Dblnsouthcity comment but believe a lot of the funds going outside of the Northeast Corridor have not been spoken for yet, or at least those funds that might expand or add service.   Recent FRA Grants awarded that sent money to California (High Speed and Capital Corridor Service), Virginia for a flyover and Gulf Coast to return service east of New Orleans to Mobile, AL might give an idea what to expect..    All have strong advocate groups and some financial back bone, non federal funds, behind it.    Can say the same for additional Empire frequency to Twin Cities and probably a new Twin Cities to Duluth corridor after Minnesota put in some money

As a few noted, Missouri River & Lincoln Service added frequency would be a no brainer.   But without a strong regional approach or at least Illinois willing to accept St. Louis as the hub for downstate I see  the other a no brainer in my mind of an all new KC/STL/Memphis route/service (which would add  frequency) as nothing more than wishful thinking.    Of Course, it boils down to State of Missouri. to begin with.      

The silver lining, I think there is probably better chance for KC to see some Amtrak gains with Biden funds as there is push to extend Amtrak service north of Texas/Tulsa into Kansas onto KC itself.  Opening some additional connections and service westbound/southbound on west side of MO and at least giving an alternate to the Texas Eagle via a more circular route via KC.  

Supposedly, Chicago to St. Louis was still shown on Brightline materials in Orlando:



https://reddit.com/r/transit/s/8e3vs1154g

addxb2 wrote: ↑

Oct 01, 2023

Supposedly, Chicago to St. Louis was still shown on Brightline materials in Orlando:



https://reddit.com/r/transit/s/8e3vs1154g

I say this knowing little about brightline. What would it give us amtrak doesn’t? As I understand it really isn’t faster. Or much faster.

Haven't seen it mentioned, but MoDOT is asking for federal money to study increasing the River Runner service to 3x daily, 1x roundtrip service to St. Joe from KC and daily service from KC to Springfield, Joplin and Branson. A Quincy Illinois to Hannibal route is also being looked at. 

jshank83 wrote: ↑

Oct 01, 2023

addxb2 wrote: ↑

Oct 01, 2023

Supposedly, Chicago to St. Louis was still shown on Brightline materials in Orlando:



https://reddit.com/r/transit/s/8e3vs1154g

I say this knowing little about brightline. What would it give us amtrak doesn’t? As I understand it really isn’t faster. Or much faster.

I've heard nothing but amazing reviews from my friends down there. Excellent experience and value. I would greatly, greatly welcome any and all competition to Amtrak. 

Now if only we could get a competitor to MoDOT...

jshank83 wrote: ↑

Oct 01, 2023

addxb2 wrote: ↑

Oct 01, 2023

Supposedly, Chicago to St. Louis was still shown on Brightline materials in Orlando:



https://reddit.com/r/transit/s/8e3vs1154g

I say this knowing little about brightline. What would it give us amtrak doesn’t? As I understand it really isn’t faster. Or much faster.

This is really just a guess, mind, but additional frequency and an alternative route. They also seem to own their own tracks, so greater reliability most likely. Amtrak's Lincoln service has been pretty good since Illinois started funding improvements, but they're still at the mercy of the freight railroads that own the track; of other people's dispatching, Brightline would be a different story, save in St. Louis and Chicago, most likely, where they'd probably use the TRRA or one of Chicago's terminals, about like everyone. I can also hope they might go somewhere other than Gateway. That thing has got to be getting fairly close to its capacity, and it's kind of a sad sack of a thing anyway.

The Superliners on the Lincoln service are basically identical to the Superliners Brightline is using so there wouldn't really be any change there. I am a bit skeptical of it happening any time soon due to the obstacles Chicago presents.

^I think you mean the Venture cars. Superliner is the two level stuff they use on most of their long-distance service. But yeah, the Venture cars are basically the same Siemens equipment Brightline is using. So that wouldn't be all that different. But the way Brightline and Amtrak operate would probably be pretty different. Especially if Brightline builds their own track, as they did in Florida. (I'm assuming on disused right of way, but there's plenty available for them to do that between St. Louis and Chicago.)

jshank83 wrote: ↑

Oct 01, 2023

addxb2 wrote: ↑

Oct 01, 2023

Supposedly, Chicago to St. Louis was still shown on Brightline materials in Orlando:



https://reddit.com/r/transit/s/8e3vs1154g

I say this knowing little about brightline. What would it give us amtrak doesn’t? As I understand it really isn’t faster. Or much faster.

I would see Chi to Louis as Brightline being able to offer competitive additional frequency.   A welcome addition that would force Amtrak step up its game.   I also think you have to look at it in another way, which would probably apply to Northeast Corridor and Southeast/Atlanta service

1) To build out a new Chicago to St. Louis rail line altogether without any real estate play doesn't make any financial sense.  Especially when you consider the cost through Chicago area.   However, it might be one more reason to make sure infrastructure funds flow into Chicago CREATE for the long term benefit of passenger rail on this corridor.   Also, maybe with the added frequency that mentality shifts to how you route freights trains off this corridor. 

2) Amtrak is hard press to add both new corridors, services to new cities and add frequency.   Getting Brightline adding frequency to where Amtrak might have to choose is not a bad outcome.  So it becomes a no brainer for Amtrak to add River Runner frequency when Brightline/private service is adding frequency on a successful/connecting corridor

Assuming Brightline is interested in investing some capital dollars, I could see them going for St. Louis - Springfield - Champaign - Chicago.

Also, an important component of Brightline’s business model is real estate development. They would likely buy up multiple lots surrounding the Gateway Transportation Center. They could be waiting for St. Louis’ downtown market to improve.

This seems really far fetched to me. Brightline isn't the first private passenger railroad to operate in 50 years for no reason. 

PeterXCV wrote: ↑

Oct 06, 2023

This seems really far fetched to me. Brightline isn't the first private passenger railroad to operate in 50 years for no reason. 

I think the public is more pro-train now than they have been in the past, partly because of prices of planes/cars, partly environmentalism, partly the fading of the car-brained boomer generation. And it's not like there are that many people running around with billions to throw into starting a passenger railroad. So I don't think Brightline being unique is, by itself, a reason for pessimism.

and lets do a double decker!

*Amtrak 

STLEnginerd wrote: ↑

Oct 09, 2023

On one hand i dislike the idea of private rail services undercutting Amtrack.  On the other hand I tend to think the whole passenger rail model in the us is backwards.  The rails themselves should be publicly funded and maintained.  The passenger service should be privatized and pay fees to use the public routes.  Amtrack should be the rail equivalent to MoDOT (or othe DOTs).  I just don't trust the free market or our current political climate to get us there.

Amtrak might technically be public, but it's run like a private rail service by a bourgeois government. So, I'm not too concerned about the possibility of private rail services despite agreeing with you in principle, I think.

Fortunately, Illinois will be the lead government of any Brightline development. Not that Illinois excels at management, but there won’t be a rush to hand anything over or privatize something.

I would expect there would be a long term track lease and Amtrak would still operate Missouri River Runner + Illinois Lincoln Service.

Brightline would infuse capital dollars, operate at a higher frequency, make different connections, and leverage real estate.

addxb2 wrote: ↑

Oct 09, 2023

Fortunately, Illinois will be the lead government of any Brightline development. Not that Illinois excels at management, but there won’t be a rush to hand anything over or privatize something.

Why do you say that?