This is really great news. We love Montreal and it truly is a city with EU vibe (French Language and Food) and Canadian at Heart. Glad to hear STL to Montreal nonstop!
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This is great news. Not just a great city but a good jumping off point to get to Europe.
I sense that this is more noteworthy than the attention it’ll receive. Montreal is a growing hub for global connections at Air Canada. I expect it’s their balanced approach to STLs strong LH numbers.
LH 3 x week and AC daily to Montreal is a pretty comfortable global reach for a region of STL size.
Air Canada Plans Extended Services To Europe For Summer 2024
https://www.forbes.com/sites/sandramacg ... -2024/amp/
For me, I want to see 5x weekly on LH, a daily flight to MXCD, and maybe Vancouver.
LH 3 x week and AC daily to Montreal is a pretty comfortable global reach for a region of STL size.
Air Canada Plans Extended Services To Europe For Summer 2024
https://www.forbes.com/sites/sandramacg ... -2024/amp/
For me, I want to see 5x weekly on LH, a daily flight to MXCD, and maybe Vancouver.
Back in 2017, we had to travel to Montreal for an Olympic conference. This is when we met with the IOC to get approval to build the Olympic Rings now at Wash U., rename Francis Field, etc. At the time, there was no TATL flight, had to connect through Toronto. The 1904 Olympics had enough strikes against it, and when you're sitting next to delegates from Paris, Amsterdam, London, Munich, Barcelona, Tokyo...all with direct flights to Montreal and we're the closest yet have to connect.....it really makes you feel like a third-tier city,
So, yes, since that trip Montreal has been on my short list.
So, yes, since that trip Montreal has been on my short list.
LOVE LOVE LOVE the addition of a Montreal direct.
In other news, it looks like San Antonio is getting TATL Euro Service now and the KC and Indy posters on airliners.net are livid. I'm not going to call it schadenfreude exactly, but nice to see STL get something nice over other peer cities for once.
In other news, it looks like San Antonio is getting TATL Euro Service now and the KC and Indy posters on airliners.net are livid. I'm not going to call it schadenfreude exactly, but nice to see STL get something nice over other peer cities for once.
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Is Montreal worth a visit? I've wondered about visiting there for a few days to see what's up. The last time any members of my family have been there was in the mid-90s, so surely things have changed since them. If it is a nice place to visit, might just take this option sometime.
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Great news! I am hoping to catch a Blues game in Montreal in 2025.
To Montreal, I've been once and loved it. I only say this with true admiration and love (and tongue in cheek) - Montreal is a hoosier Paris. Vibrantly urban and walkable with amazing food and parks. Go.Chris Stritzel wrote: ↑Sep 21, 2023Is Montreal worth a visit? I've wondered about visiting there for a few days to see what's up. The last time any members of my family have been there was in the mid-90s, so surely things have changed since them. If it is a nice place to visit, might just take this option sometime.
KC and Indy are peer cities (population wise), however corporate wise Indy is stronger overall. I don't consider STL a peer city of those two.soulardx wrote: ↑Sep 21, 2023LOVE LOVE LOVE the addition of a Montreal direct.
In other news, it looks like San Antonio is getting TATL Euro Service now and the KC and Indy posters on airliners.net are livid. I'm not going to call it schadenfreude exactly, but nice to see STL get something nice over other peer cities for once.
Look, I just don't think that a legacy is going to go into a market without corporate backing. Sure incentives help (but for how long). San Antonio did just that as well. The corporations bucked up for service and the community also gets the flight. In STL the corporate response and initiative to land Lufthansa was huge and they are also backing the seats after an entire year. Then, the community also filled the seats with them. Lufthansa has said STL is their most successful new TATL service ever. We did the same for WOWair to Iceland (leisure seats filled on a no-frill ultra low cost) and only lost the service because WOW went bye bye all together. I see STL as a unique city as well. There is a lot of money in STL, a lot of corporate money, Fortune companies, collaboration and cohesiveness. STLians are also very strong travelers to EU and they tend to support the air service (over others even if they have to pay a little more for nonstop). STLians, for years, had Lambert as a hub for TWA (hard to believe that was over 20 years ago now and many kids today don't even know the name TWA) and they like having nonstop across the pond. We also have a huge Bosnian and Indian community booking LH for easy connections through FRA.
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The f are you smoking, KC has 600,000 less people in metro area and Indy has 700,000 less.
In overall catch all metro area, STL has more population closer to the airport. 600 and 700 is closer to a million than 400 and 500. Just my take. STL is a Gamma City. STL has 8 F500, Indy 3 F500, KC 1 F500.dbInSouthCity wrote: ↑Sep 21, 2023The f are you smoking, KC has 600,000 less people in metro area and Indy has 700,000 less.
Also, could you please not drop the F bomb, doesn't look good on you DB.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Globali ... ch_Network
Another analysis...
http://kcrisingmetrics.org/peermetros.htm
showing Indy and KC much closer as peer cities than STL with simple MSA
I think a better comp for this specific sub-convo is airport catchment area.
Among peer cities - STL, PIT, KC, Indy, CLE, CIN, etc - which has the largest population that uses their airport?
STL and KC are on relative islands compared to PIT, Indy, CLE and CIN.
Indy and CIN are closer than STL and Columbia, MO. Same with Indy and Louisville. Same with PIT and CLE.
Soooo, I have no idea how to even answer my own damn question. LOL
Among peer cities - STL, PIT, KC, Indy, CLE, CIN, etc - which has the largest population that uses their airport?
STL and KC are on relative islands compared to PIT, Indy, CLE and CIN.
Indy and CIN are closer than STL and Columbia, MO. Same with Indy and Louisville. Same with PIT and CLE.
Soooo, I have no idea how to even answer my own damn question. LOL
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I initially misunderstood your statement to be that STL was below peer status with Indy and KC, rather than above peer status. I had the same reaction for a moment and was going to say more or less the same thing, Thought you were saying Indy's economy was stronger than ours too, but then I realized you meant stronger than KC's and everything suddenly clicked. I suspect DB probably read it the same way I initially did. I wasn't 100% sure until you posted your own response, saying more or less what I'd been planning to say to rebut you. Anyway . . . carry on.matguy70 wrote: ↑Sep 21, 2023In overall catch all metro area, STL has more population closer to the airport. 600 and 700 is closer to a million than 400 and 500. Just my take. STL is a Gamma City. STL has 8 F500, Indy 3 F500, KC 1 F500.dbInSouthCity wrote: ↑Sep 21, 2023The f are you smoking, KC has 600,000 less people in metro area and Indy has 700,000 less.
Also, could you please not drop the F bomb, doesn't look good on you DB.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Globali ... ch_Network
Another analysis...
http://kcrisingmetrics.org/peermetros.htm
showing Indy and KC much closer as peer cities than STL with simple MSA
Also, sh*t yeah! Montreal is a great score! I'm ready to start a French Colonial League with them and New Orleans. We just need to start speaking Francais Cahok again. Sacre merd mon frer!
Can someone call up Business Journal and Post Dispatch and let them know the airport got a new international route?!?
Are we above celebrating Montreal now that STL has LH?
Are we above celebrating Montreal now that STL has LH?
Montreal is an awesome city, and I definitely see a family trip there in my future utilizing that new route. Great win for STL, and Montreal. Toronto and Montreal add good connecting options into Europe as well offering some destinations that aren't easily served by US airlines.
Neither the airport or Air Canada (or Austin who also got a new flight) have done a press release. I assumed they were all going to come out together and for some reason the schedule got loaded early?
I’m sure something will come out.
I know what you mean, but...it's kind of like college football recruiting—for years Mizzou kept losing STL and KC's best talent to other schools. They had to 'close the borders' and win their own state, firm up the base. Likewise, we need flights to the top cities/international destinations in North America (not talking airports like JFK/SFO).addxb2 wrote: ↑Sep 22, 2023Are we above celebrating Montreal now that STL has LH?
I felt missing are/were: Montreal, Vancouver, Mexico City, and Honolulu (to some extent Anchorage, and even Calgary, I've a soft spot for Olympic cities).
Also, my gut says Lufthansa's (Star Alliance) success here made Air Canada take note. They added Austin, so that's two LH cities. Don't think that's a coincidence. I'm excited, celebrating because this could be the quiet start of a domino/halo effect.
To that, maybe alliance member Copa Airlines will take note (although I hear their business class isn't up to snuff; thinking of Bunge/Viterra's massive operations in Brazil, Argentina.)
So happy to hear this news! Been to Montreal and loved the time I was there. It really is like being in a European city but in North America - a beautiful blend of Canadian/North American and Quebecois cultures with amazing parks, restaurants and a welcoming population! This is a great win for STL and the region and based on previous posts here, it's a commanding sign that our region is ripe for more international flights. I hope that AC and the partner airlines within their alliance continue to see STL as a promising location to add new flights to. Slightly bummed out at the choice of aircraft - I suppose you start small and then go bigger if the demand is there, but it would've been sweeter to see a mainline aircraft come through. A win is a win nevertheless, so I'm happy regardless!!
Great news for future travelers on here - this is one of the few airports in Canada (along with YYZ and a couple others in Canada) that has US Border Pre-clearance, so there will be no need for customs or immigration clearance when landing in STL from YUL - one less headache to deal with. Just pick up your bags and get out when you land in STL!
Do we have any details behind the win here - subsidized landing fees? multi-year commitment? Is this a win by just the airport commission or a GSTL/Airport collab that secured the win? etc.
I'm sure the hockey fans and possibly F1 fans will be happy to hear this news - let's keep this momentum going!!
Great news for future travelers on here - this is one of the few airports in Canada (along with YYZ and a couple others in Canada) that has US Border Pre-clearance, so there will be no need for customs or immigration clearance when landing in STL from YUL - one less headache to deal with. Just pick up your bags and get out when you land in STL!
Do we have any details behind the win here - subsidized landing fees? multi-year commitment? Is this a win by just the airport commission or a GSTL/Airport collab that secured the win? etc.
I'm sure the hockey fans and possibly F1 fans will be happy to hear this news - let's keep this momentum going!!
This new route to Montreal is not subsidized and added by AirCanada purely on O&D demand and (most likely) international flights to EU.AJ1289 wrote: ↑Sep 22, 2023So happy to hear this news! Been to Montreal and loved the time I was there. It really is like being in a European city but in North America - a beautiful blend of Canadian/North American and Quebecois cultures with amazing parks, restaurants and a welcoming population! This is a great win for STL and the region and based on previous posts here, it's a commanding sign that our region is ripe for more international flights. I hope that AC and the partner airlines within their alliance continue to see STL as a promising location to add new flights to. Slightly bummed out at the choice of aircraft - I suppose you start small and then go bigger if the demand is there, but it would've been sweeter to see a mainline aircraft come through. A win is a win nevertheless, so I'm happy regardless!!
Great news for future travelers on here - this is one of the few airports in Canada (along with YYZ and a couple others in Canada) that has US Border Pre-clearance, so there will be no need for customs or immigration clearance when landing in STL from YUL - one less headache to deal with. Just pick up your bags and get out when you land in STL!
Do we have any details behind the win here - subsidized landing fees? multi-year commitment? Is this a win by just the airport commission or a GSTL/Airport collab that secured the win? etc.
I'm sure the hockey fans and possibly F1 fans will be happy to hear this news - let's keep this momentum going!!
Other reasons why STL to FRA on Lufthansa is a win/win and celebrated as success:
St. Louis Fast Growing Indian Community Drawn To St. Louis
https://www.stlpr.org/race-identity-and ... ing-spirit
I notice every time I have taken LH to FRA from STL there are so many Indian nationality travelers on the flight.
How a Direct Flight to Frankfurt Benefits St. Louis’ Bosnians
https://www.stlbosnians.com/how-a-direc ... -bosnians/
https://www.riverfronttimes.com/st-loui ... s-39794837
The largest Bosnian American communities in the US are found in St. Louis (almost 100,000) followed by Chicago. These flights are essential for connections to Sarajevo. There are NO direct/nonstop flights from any USA airport to Sarajevo and this connection on FRA has been award winning for the Bosnian community in/outbound.
St. Louis Fast Growing Indian Community Drawn To St. Louis
https://www.stlpr.org/race-identity-and ... ing-spirit
I notice every time I have taken LH to FRA from STL there are so many Indian nationality travelers on the flight.
How a Direct Flight to Frankfurt Benefits St. Louis’ Bosnians
https://www.stlbosnians.com/how-a-direc ... -bosnians/
https://www.riverfronttimes.com/st-loui ... s-39794837
The largest Bosnian American communities in the US are found in St. Louis (almost 100,000) followed by Chicago. These flights are essential for connections to Sarajevo. There are NO direct/nonstop flights from any USA airport to Sarajevo and this connection on FRA has been award winning for the Bosnian community in/outbound.
^^ To Matguy's point. I wonder how many Air Canada seats out of St. Louis are travelers are going onto international trips/Europe? It would be interesting number to know.
I had a year of traveling workwise back and forth to Eastern Canada/Maritimes when still living in St Louis. The Air Canada flight out of St. Louis was great in a lot of ways but also the fact that you could clear US Customs before getting on flight back home. It seemed like such a better use of time to have that option on a connecting flight instead of final destination. Whish they would do that with Mexico, or at least some key Mexica/US Destinations.
I had a year of traveling workwise back and forth to Eastern Canada/Maritimes when still living in St Louis. The Air Canada flight out of St. Louis was great in a lot of ways but also the fact that you could clear US Customs before getting on flight back home. It seemed like such a better use of time to have that option on a connecting flight instead of final destination. Whish they would do that with Mexico, or at least some key Mexica/US Destinations.
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ADM has huge ops in SA too. And who’d rather fly out of O’hare than Lambert everything else being equal? Only a masochist
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SO STL is not KC or Indy but how are they not peer cities. We all play in the same sandbox. What economic or cultural opportunity do they not have the capacity to pursue that we do? If you show a map of the US w/ no labels to a high school student in Los Angeles what are the odds they could tell the difference between us? Could we support two teams in the same professional league like NewYork/Chicago/LosAngeles? what is the distinction that actually matters? Therefore i submit that we ARE peer cities.matguy70 wrote: ↑Sep 21, 2023In overall catch all metro area, STL has more population closer to the airport. 600 and 700 is closer to a million than 400 and 500. Just my take. STL is a Gamma City. STL has 8 F500, Indy 3 F500, KC 1 F500.
Also, could you please not drop the F bomb, doesn't look good on you DB.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Globali ... ch_Network
Another analysis...
http://kcrisingmetrics.org/peermetros.htm
showing Indy and KC much closer as peer cities than STL with simple MSA
For what its worth i consider the Beta- cities on that list to be our peers as well despite the fact they have more people than we do. Obviously there is big gulf between us Alpha level cities and Beta + cities for that matter in terms of global cultural significance.
We are better though
BTW, story broke in the SLBJ earlier this afternoon.
In the 2022 update, STL was ranked near the top of Gamma+ cities (fourth place with San Joes, Kolkata and Charlotte at 1-3). Praying to enter Beta- in the next couple years.
Beta+ and the Alphas are beyond our collective lifetimes, but moving out of Gamma classification would be huge in and of itself. C'mon folks, let's make it happen.
In the 2022 update, STL was ranked near the top of Gamma+ cities (fourth place with San Joes, Kolkata and Charlotte at 1-3). Praying to enter Beta- in the next couple years.
Beta+ and the Alphas are beyond our collective lifetimes, but moving out of Gamma classification would be huge in and of itself. C'mon folks, let's make it happen.
Obviously plenty of in Canada connects also but this summer we had about 152 seats a day to Toronto each way. June flights were 86% full or 130 seats filled a day.dredger wrote: ↑Sep 22, 2023^^ To Matguy's point. I wonder how many Air Canada seats out of St. Louis are travelers are going onto international trips/Europe? It would be interesting number to know.
I had a year of traveling workwise back and forth to Eastern Canada/Maritimes when still living in St Louis. The Air Canada flight out of St. Louis was great in a lot of ways but also the fact that you could clear US Customs before getting on flight back home. It seemed like such a better use of time to have that option on a connecting flight instead of final destination. Whish they would do that with Mexico, or at least some key Mexica/US Destinations.
60 people on average flew each way to Toronto a day as their final destination. Not everyone flew on the nonstop but let’s say 80%. So 48/130 leaves about 80 people a day that were connecting somewhere.
Stl-Montreal has about 20 people a day that travel it in the summer. Guessing with a nonstop that could easily bump past 30.