St. Louis Lambert Int. Airport [airline/hub/operations/info]

soulardx · PostSep 05, 2023#80012023-09-05T15:07+00:00

addxb2 wrote: ↑
Sep 05, 2023
soulardx wrote: MCI - $5-$6.2 million on offer for similar service. Lobbying for an additional $5 million from the state of Kansas.
I keep hoping St. Louis will figure out another Europe or new South American route and swoop in to grab some of MOs money. MOs $5m should’ve been divided evenly (which is still generous to KC) from the start.

KC needs to either build a corporate base that can support Europe or work as a region to raise the funds themselves.

I disagree with the priorities of much of the state government republican leadership, so many of the things they enact/push seem strange to me but I just can't believe that the state would give KC $$ and not STL.

Then again...MAGA Mo.

But, yeah - do it yourself KC!

RockChalkSTL · PostSep 05, 2023#80022023-09-05T15:15+00:00

Hasn't St. Louis fought for the same funds? I thought that St. Louis had told the state that they wanted access to the same funds so that St. Louis could lure a second international flight.

It's stupid if that hasn't happened, and if Kansas City receives money that St. Louis will not.

addxb2 · PostSep 05, 2023#80032023-09-05T15:21+00:00

Yes, I believe the state confirmed there are no restrictions on who can use the funds. It’s just assumed (by most) that KC is the most likely to tap into it first. KC getting a flight has appeared more likely than STL getting a second flight.

I’ll be fuming if KC uses all $5m for something unproductive like Iceland or Dublin.

soulardx · PostSep 05, 2023#80042023-09-05T15:25+00:00

addxb2 wrote: ↑
Sep 05, 2023
Yes, I believe the state confirmed there are no restrictions on who can use the funds. It’s just assumed (by most) that KC is the most likely to tap into it first. KC getting a flight has appeared more likely than STL getting a second flight.

I’ll be fuming if KC uses all $5m for something unproductive like Iceland or Dublin.

I can't find the stltoday.com story that spoke to all of this but I recall STL leaders taking issue with KC getting $$ and not STL.

Chris Stritzel · PostSep 05, 2023#80052023-09-05T17:15+00:00

If I recall correctly, KC got $5 Million dedicated to getting an international flight from Missouri and I think Kansas also gave them $5 Million.

soulardx · PostSep 05, 2023#80062023-09-05T17:40+00:00

Chris Stritzel wrote: ↑
Sep 05, 2023
If I recall correctly, KC got $5 Million dedicated to getting an international flight from Missouri and I think Kansas also gave them $5 Million.

I don't think that's accurate. I think there's a $5 million Missouri state fund and KCI is trying to tap that fund. I can't find any evidence that any of the $5 million (Missouri's $$) has been allocated or that KCI is getting the entire $5 mil from Missouri.

BUT, if true - utter BS.

jshank83 · PostSep 06, 2023#80072023-09-06T04:39+00:00

Chris Stritzel wrote: ↑
Sep 05, 2023
If I recall correctly, KC got $5 Million dedicated to getting an international flight from Missouri and I think Kansas also gave them $5 Million.

It is “intended” for KC but technically STL can use it.

Kansas hasn’t given the rumored 5 mil yet. I haven’t seen anything on it in awhile so I am not sure on the status of how close it is.

Either way they have to get the corporate support behind it to make it happen. If they can’t do that it won’t matter the incentive money. Unless we are talking Iceland or maybe Dublin.

hebeters · PostSep 07, 2023#80082023-09-07T23:42+00:00

Back in the day when TWA was in STL I recall the walks being long
But now at least at Lambert its not that challenging
Longer Walks in Airports It’s not your imagination: you can easily get those 10,000 steps in on flight days just trying to get to your gate. This article confirms that airport walks are getting much longer, especially in new terminals. One reason is related to flying—larger average plane sizes—but the other is not: airports are devoting more space to shopping outlets (and making you walk by them instead of coasting past on a people mover).
https://www.cnn.com/2023/08/19/business/airport-terminals-travel-walking/index.html

dbInSouthCity · PostSep 08, 2023#80092023-09-08T01:14+00:00

I got 5 miles once in ATL during a 2 hour layover

GoHarvOrGoHome · PostSep 08, 2023#80102023-09-08T14:20+00:00

It took me over 30 minutes of hustle walking to get from one gate to another at the Frankfurt airport (The STL gate in Z was at the very end)

STL is nothing

gary kreie · PostSep 10, 2023#80112023-09-10T16:51+00:00

It’s why I like our Terminal 2. One of the shortest walks for a large city terminal. Then the drive home is short too.

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dbInSouthCity · PostSep 12, 2023#80122023-09-12T23:27+00:00

Looks like we aren’t getting additional flights to Frankfurt. Would be interesting to see load data from cities that are

jshank83 · PostSep 13, 2023#80132023-09-13T04:35+00:00

dbInSouthCity wrote: ↑
Sep 12, 2023
Looks like we aren’t getting additional flights to Frankfurt. Would be interesting to see load data from cities that are

A couple notes to this.

Orlando and Calgary are flown on Discover not Lufthansa.

Austin was scheduled to go 5x originally this summer and was later pulled back to 3x. They have been in the schedule for 5x on a 787 next summer for a few months now.

San Diego is the same. It’s been in the schedule already.

So… I’m not sure any of these frequency updates are anything new. Which gives me a glimmer of hope we may still see more flights. Not saying I am counting on it but I don’t think this is a final update.

addxb2 · PostSep 13, 2023#80142023-09-13T12:48+00:00

I’m not well versed in the aviation business but I am fairly comfortable around corporate communications.

I don’t think Lufthansa would send the regional director of sales to media with “This line is well above the financial break even point.” three weeks ago.

A lot of different ways to say something positive yet cautionary. That’s not it,

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jshank83 · PostSep 14, 2023#80152023-09-14T03:08+00:00

addxb2 wrote: ↑
Sep 13, 2023
I’m not well versed in the aviation business but I am fairly comfortable around corporate communications.

I don’t think Lufthansa would send the regional director of sales to media with “This line is well above the financial break even point.” three weeks ago.

A lot of different ways to say something positive yet cautionary. That’s not it,

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

On the surface I don’t have a huge issue with it staying 3x a week. I’d rather that than prior years of us arguing about not having service at all….

My issue more comes with some of what we are hearing not lining up.

Quote 1
This line is well above the financial break even point.

Quote 2
This one I don’t remember it exactly so I am generalizing.
“3x a week isn’t operational sustainable or doesn’t make sense operationally” something to that effect.

Quote 3
The main thing keeping us from going to 5x a day is lack of crew. Again something to that effect.

Well now they just added a bunch of cities, including some on the same aircraft type we have. So crew can’t be the issue for the not going to 5x. And if 3x isn’t sustainable then it needs to go up or it goes away.

So my overall issue more is I am not sure what to believe anymore if we aren’t moved to 5x a day.

matguy70 · PostSep 14, 2023#80162023-09-14T04:01+00:00

There is nothing new here at all. Orlando and Calgary are flown on LH's Eurowings Discover not Lufthansa.

Austin was scheduled to go 5x originally this summer and was later pulled back to 3x. They have been in the schedule for 5x on a 787 next summer announced of Feb 2nd if this year.

San Diego is the same. It’s been in the schedule already.

MSP isn't *new* service. Lufthansa's Condor Airlines has been flying the route for years, but now Lufthansa will serve the route on their aircraft.

SEA isn't new... the service is restarted and adding Munich to SEA

The fact that a year ago Austin was to get 5x a week this summer and then was pushed back and now announced for next year is a clear indication the LH's expansion in *new* USA markets is their priority right now (using what they have in aircraft and personnel).

They have too much success in STL and they have too much to lose in STL if they don't maintain their service (with corporate backing and success rates on business class and overall sold capacity rates...even in winter).

I read nothing here that wasn't/isn't really "new" worrysome or surprising.

addxb2 · PostSep 14, 2023#80172023-09-14T20:16+00:00

jshank83 wrote:
addxb2 wrote: ↑
Sep 13, 2023
I’m not well versed in the aviation business but I am fairly comfortable around corporate communications.

I don’t think Lufthansa would send the regional director of sales to media with “This line is well above the financial break even point.” three weeks ago.

A lot of different ways to say something positive yet cautionary. That’s not it,

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
On the surface I don’t have a huge issue with it staying 3x a week. I’d rather that than prior years of us arguing about not having service at all….

My issue more comes with some of what we are hearing not lining up.

Quote 1
This line is well above the financial break even point.

Quote 2
This one I don’t remember it exactly so I am generalizing.
“3x a week isn’t operational sustainable or doesn’t make sense operationally” something to that effect.

Quote 3
The main thing keeping us from going to 5x a day is lack of crew. Again something to that effect.

Well now they just added a bunch of cities, including some on the same aircraft type we have. So crew can’t be the issue for the not going to 5x. And if 3x isn’t sustainable then it needs to go up or it goes away.

So my overall issue more is I am not sure what to believe anymore if we aren’t moved to 5x a day.

Jshank, as a trusted source, you’ve peaked the interest of Chris and others on KCRag by feeding into this. They’re foaming at the mouth for an opportunity to see St. Louis lose something.

Not saying the worst won’t happen… but taking a step back, there is virtually no evidence that Lufthansa isn’t anything but thrilled with StLs performance as a 3x city. Sales and untouched incentives indicate as much.

Airliners, UrbanStL, Twitter, and KCRag have all overacted to non-news. At this point, I think the Post or BJ would’ve broken a story if there were one.

Chris Stritzel · PostSep 14, 2023#80182023-09-14T20:48+00:00

I’m not foaming at the mouth for St. Louis to lose anything, besides Tishaura Jones as Mayor (this comes as no surprise to anyone going back 2 years).

St. Louis needs more and KC needs to get some stuff too because most people from KC aren’t going to come to STL for a flight overseas and people from STL aren’t going to come to KC to fly overseas. We all might make the trek to Chicago or Nashville, but even then, those are too far away for most of us unless we want to spend a day there. We only route through those areas as an absolute necessity when we shouldn’t have to. Lufthansa is doing spectacular in St. Louis. Great! Expand service and get another airline to capitalize on the clear market potential for more direct TATL service from St. Louis. Now let KC have a shot by reviewing the facts on where most of their travelers end up after originating at MCI. Go down that path and you’ll get a flight route that’ll be successful like STL to Frankfurt. It’s not rocket science.

Both cities are ripe to give Chicago, Nashville, and even Denver a run for their money in this category.

gone corporate · PostSep 14, 2023#80192023-09-14T21:05+00:00

No worries with Lufthansa. They love us. Meanwhile, I'm just patiently waiting for 2025, when the 777X comes into service with some non-US carriers.

addxb2 · PostSep 14, 2023#80202023-09-14T21:18+00:00

Chris, it’s so frustrating to see you play both sides here but completely unleash on STL at KCRag. St. Louis treated you VERY well for an amateur journalist/developer and you repay it by spewing the most basic forms of critique in order to earn good graces with your new city. I sure hope it pays off.

“Losing 600,000 residents from your city limits, seeing a lot of people flee to other cities, losing the TWA hub when it collapsed, having a constant crime issue, and being surrounded by cities doing fairly well is cause to express your insecurities on everyone else and blame everyone else for your own failures. I left St. Louis for a reason, and it wasn't just going to where the opportunity was. But that's a story for another thread.”

I’m not STLguy1. I know myself well enough to know I wouldn’t have many productive things to say to the lovely Kansas Citians on KCRag if given the chance.

Chris Stritzel · PostSep 14, 2023#80212023-09-14T21:27+00:00

I believe everything I post here and on the KCRag. There are some things that I’d like to say on both forums about each city, but I hold off. For KC, there’s a long list of things I will b**** about one of these days. Friends and family know and it’s just as rough as what I say about St. Louis. I believe both the good and bad things out of tough love for both cities. Both can grow and thrive, and that’s what I’ll always say until I’m dead.

As for my blog, eh. It’s whatever. It’ll become a faded memory for many more than it already is as the domain will expire and won’t be renewed. It’s only been maintained for a few people at this point.

I’ll keep posting the good news and my opinions here and on the KCRag (which in both instances has been a majority of the time) while introducing a sprinkling of severe criticism in both places when necessary.

dbInSouthCity · PostSep 14, 2023#80222023-09-14T21:27+00:00

PostSep 14, 2023#80232023-09-14T21:41+00:00

There is no serious metric where STL and Kc are competing in the same pool. They are to us what we are to Chicago.

whitherSTL · PostSep 14, 2023#80242023-09-14T21:46+00:00

dbInSouthCity wrote: ↑
Sep 14, 2023
There is no serious metric where STL and Kc are competing in the same pool. They are to us what we are to Chicago.

A more apt comparison would be “they are to us what we are to Minneapolis.”

matguy70 · PostSep 14, 2023#80252023-09-14T22:03+00:00

gone corporate wrote: ↑
Sep 14, 2023
No worries with Lufthansa. They love us. Meanwhile, I'm just patiently waiting for 2025, when the 777X comes into service with some non-US carriers.

That's true. I just flew the route STL to FRA (as I have 3 times this year for work) and the man sitting next to me in Biz Class was a Lufthansa flight attendant who took the flight to STL to see his wife's family in Columbia Missouri for a wedding. His wife and child came on the flight a week before. He told me that the flight to STL was full and he couldn't get an upgrade to Biz Class. But he got the last Biz Class upgrade back to FRA. He told me that the STL flight attendants love the food cuisine on STL to FRA flight best of all EU to US flights. Lol. And more seriously, that the STL flight is more full than most he sees in USA. That is just am employee so I can't say if that is true or not. But anyway, all three of my flights (one in December, April and August werrle all full. I noticed a lot of foreigners flying the route (many ethnicities and languages being spoken). One ethnicity I have seen on the flights I was surprised about is Indian or Middle Eastern. However, I understand now that St. Louis' large medical presence is fueling a lot of this ethnicity taking flights to FRA and into the Middle East. For what it's worth.

St. Louis Lambert Int. Airport [airline/hub/operations/info]

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