Price shopping STL to London for next May, nice to see another option. It’ll be interesting to see how this impacts LH.
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Flew into the airport this morning. Terminal 2 was packed. Only complaint, one men’s restroom operational for the entire 2nd terminal, three stalls.
I don’t like to fly in business attire so usually expect an opportunity to change before heading off to business. Not possible here unfortunately.
I don’t like to fly in business attire so usually expect an opportunity to change before heading off to business. Not possible here unfortunately.
Not sure it will. No more than Atlanta and the usual suspects. (and LH has the shortest layover.) Anecdotally, I know about 7 people who traveled to London since LH began novice and none flew through FRA—IIRC, connecting cities were Newark, LGA, Chicago, Amsterdam, Toronto and Detroit. (I always ask)addxb2 wrote: ↑Sep 23, 2023Price shopping STL to London for next May, nice to see another option. It’ll be interesting to see how this impacts LH.
Not sure this has been discussed, but—
Do you think they might add a Star Alliance Club with the remodel?
Austin and Portland have one and they’ve about the same UA flights as we do (6). Include LH and Air Canada going to 2 destinations…it would be a nice add.
Do you think they might add a Star Alliance Club with the remodel?
Austin and Portland have one and they’ve about the same UA flights as we do (6). Include LH and Air Canada going to 2 destinations…it would be a nice add.
Southwest is running their biggest schedule ever from STL this month.
AA added the 2nd Miami flight back for winter.
Selling of the bonds for the T2baggage claim expansion is on the airport commission agenda. So I’d expect construction isn’t too far off
AA added the 2nd Miami flight back for winter.
Selling of the bonds for the T2baggage claim expansion is on the airport commission agenda. So I’d expect construction isn’t too far off
Airport commission update
Southwest Baggage expansion
$60 mil expected price - all paid by Southwest
90% designed
Bonds to be sold on December 20
Going out for bid in January
Estimated completion Summer 26
Boeing expansion things are good to go.
Oct 17 there is a public meeting in relation to environmental planning related to it.
Runway construction wraps up in December. Article on it in Airport Improvement magazine.
Projects announced this morning were projects related to the new terminal but needed done with or without a new terminal, so they wanted to go ahead and get moving on them. Airlines were on board getting it started early. Most bids will go out next year. (Glad they are being proactive)
New terminal should go out for architectural design next year. Will take 18 months.
Southwest curbside check in should move to the other side of the entrance doors soon. It is ready to go, southwest is just doing testing.
10ish days until the new T2 garage entrance is open.
Last 3 out of 4 months exceeded checkpoint numbers from 2019.
Art of Travel is next Thursday
Southwest Baggage expansion
$60 mil expected price - all paid by Southwest
90% designed
Bonds to be sold on December 20
Going out for bid in January
Estimated completion Summer 26
Boeing expansion things are good to go.
Oct 17 there is a public meeting in relation to environmental planning related to it.
Runway construction wraps up in December. Article on it in Airport Improvement magazine.
Projects announced this morning were projects related to the new terminal but needed done with or without a new terminal, so they wanted to go ahead and get moving on them. Airlines were on board getting it started early. Most bids will go out next year. (Glad they are being proactive)
New terminal should go out for architectural design next year. Will take 18 months.
Southwest curbside check in should move to the other side of the entrance doors soon. It is ready to go, southwest is just doing testing.
10ish days until the new T2 garage entrance is open.
Last 3 out of 4 months exceeded checkpoint numbers from 2019.
Art of Travel is next Thursday
I'm admittedly less versed in airport infrastructure than many on here; why does it need to take 2.5 years for bidding and building a baggage claim expansion?
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How many years in the current facility does it take Southwest to recoup and profit from a $60 million expenditure? Looks to me like Southwest’s is betting they stay in the current facility for quite some time.
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^I think with the current phasing they could end up being the last folks to move if they wish. T2 is the last thing slated to be closed. If I recall the plan correctly the idea is to move the A concourse carriers to C&D, demolish A and begin on the western half of the new concourse. Now, I thought SWA was panning to move next into the first finished section, but there's really no reason they couldn't stay put that I can see, as the next step is to move airlines out of C&D and into the new concourse so demolition and construction could continue. I didn't think that was the plan, but I don't see any reason they couldn't stay right where they are until the bitter end, thus suffering the least disruption to their operations from construction. That'd leave them where they are until sometime after 2030 I think. All of this could change as plans unfold, mind. And I'm sure the airport will work hard to keep them happy. But given how dire the baggage situation is over there I'm not surprised they're moving forward anyway.
Bad analogy, maybe….but let’s say I’m living in a crappy old house in Carondelet and will be building a new home in Farwesterfield in 3 years…but my current kitchen sucks so bad I need to redo it with new fridge, dishwasher, sink, for the time being knowing I can move those ‘brand new’ appliances into my new house.
Are some of the new baggage claim ‘appliances’ able to be moved/refitted into the new terminal?
Are some of the new baggage claim ‘appliances’ able to be moved/refitted into the new terminal?
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They’re construction a new building for the 2 baggage claims but also renovating the existing system while the airport is operational
Damn shame that Yamasaki's masterpiece will be largely hidden from view.
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I was just picking up and dropping off at the improved Nashville Airport. At the entrance, cars were backed up on the switchbacked road crammed in off Donaldson. We kept looking for the words "short term parking", but we only found the words "terminal parking" which is a giant garage. Then we paid at a pay station, but it only allowed payment for all-day parking $28. As we exited, we found the gate accepts a lower hourly rate. Who knew.
A few days later, we dropped our daughter off at departing passengers. It was chaos. Way too many airlines in far too short of a curb. Cars stopping and waiting for busses and other cars to move. Long slow line of cars inching in from a long line on I-40.
In the old days, one could plan a trip that switched airlines during the layover, so we needed all airlines in one terminal. But not anymore. So, I hope by combing all airlines in one terminal, and eliminating terminal 2, we don't end up like Nashville.
A few days later, we dropped our daughter off at departing passengers. It was chaos. Way too many airlines in far too short of a curb. Cars stopping and waiting for busses and other cars to move. Long slow line of cars inching in from a long line on I-40.
In the old days, one could plan a trip that switched airlines during the layover, so we needed all airlines in one terminal. But not anymore. So, I hope by combing all airlines in one terminal, and eliminating terminal 2, we don't end up like Nashville.
They will be the last to move into the new terminal. It’s been mentioned a few times it won’t be used for as long as long as it would normally be intended for (I can’t remember the exact phrasing). Loan will be 10 years. It is written into it that Southwest will pay off whatever of it is left when they move. I haven’t looked at the latest projection but guessing 2032-33ishmoorlander wrote: ↑Oct 05, 2023How many years in the current facility does it take Southwest to recoup and profit from a $60 million expenditure? Looks to me like Southwest’s is betting they stay in the current facility for quite some time.
Moves will basically go airlines from A to go C/D while they redo that. After the first half is done whoever is in C move into the new section while they demolish C and build the 2nd half. After that is done everyone left moves into it. Less moving this way.
Baggage for Southwest is a mess as most of us know. This needs to get done just to help them operationally. But my wishful thinking is them putting a base here is in the works. That would be one reason drop 60 mil on a new baggage facility if you anticipate running more flights thru here.
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I'm hoping against hope that whoever does the architectural work will find a way to preserve that view, but . . . it doesn't seem hopeful. That said, I'm pretty sure the picture is just a concept render from the presentation a year or so ago. The real news is that they're moving ahead with the enabling projects; demolishing the ANG facilities, moving the supporting facilities, and so forth. This is going to be a long slow process, but even if they screw up the view, I'm glad they're not messing with the domes themselves and I hope we'll get a good airport out of this on the other side.framer wrote: ↑Oct 05, 2023Damn shame that Yamasaki's masterpiece will be largely hidden from view.
Jshank, thanks for a great summaryjshank83 wrote: ↑Oct 04, 2023Airport commission update
Projects announced this morning were projects related to the new terminal but needed done with or without a new terminal, so they wanted to go ahead and get moving on them. Airlines were on board getting it started early. Most bids will go out next year. (Glad they are being proactive)
Would anyone have a good idea on or more details related to the $331 million of work stated as Jshank noted? I'm assuming a big chunk of this is utilities related but also wonder if it will be demo of redundant/unused structures, site clearing. Heck, can even see demo of Concourse B sooner than later as Concourse C & D seem to have enough unused gates in my opinion that B has no real value anymore. Especially with T2 baggage expansion going forward it seems that Southwest would be the last airline to make change over to the new terminal.
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-Design of a new central utility plant (CUP)
-Construction of the new CUP
-Relocation of Airfield Maintenance
-Design and construction of a new West deicing pad
-Demolition of the vacant Air National Guard Complex
-Executive Program Management (EPM) Services
-Program Management Services
-Construction of the new CUP
-Relocation of Airfield Maintenance
-Design and construction of a new West deicing pad
-Demolition of the vacant Air National Guard Complex
-Executive Program Management (EPM) Services
-Program Management Services
Press release https://www.flystl.com/newsroom/stl-new ... w-projectsdredger wrote: ↑Oct 06, 2023Jshank, thanks for a great summaryjshank83 wrote: ↑Oct 04, 2023Airport commission update
Projects announced this morning were projects related to the new terminal but needed done with or without a new terminal, so they wanted to go ahead and get moving on them. Airlines were on board getting it started early. Most bids will go out next year. (Glad they are being proactive)
Would anyone have a good idea on or more details related to the $331 million of work stated as Jshank noted? I'm assuming a big chunk of this is utilities related but also wonder if it will be demo of redundant/unused structures, site clearing. Heck, can even see demo of Concourse B sooner than later as Concourse C & D seem to have enough unused gates in my opinion that B has no real value anymore. Especially with T2 baggage expansion going forward it seems that Southwest would be the last airline to make change over to the new terminal.
I assume B will be demolished when A is demolished. They still use it some for event space.
Lufthansa loads in September via customs numbers
Inbound 85.76%
Outbound 92.64%
Total 89.2%
US citizen 73.4%
Foreign citizens 26.6%
Inbound 85.76%
Outbound 92.64%
Total 89.2%
US citizen 73.4%
Foreign citizens 26.6%
That's pretty damn great!jshank83 wrote: ↑Oct 09, 2023Lufthansa loads in September via customs numbers
Inbound 85.76%
Outbound 92.64%
Total 89.2%
US citizen 73.4%
Foreign citizens 26.6%
Breaking down passenger statistics in comparison market: AUSTIN (to Frankfurt on Lufthansa)
STL to FRA
July 1, 2022 and June 30, 2023 (one year)
65,000 passengers
AVERAGE MONTHLY PAX: 5,416 per month
Three Weekly R/T Flights
a330-300 Lufthansa 255 total passengers
AUS TO FRA
January 2023 – July 2023 Total Pax: 39,125
AVERAGE MONTHLY PAX: 5,589 per month
Three Weekly R/T Flights
787 Dreamliner Lufthansa 294 total passengers
Looking at these with the statistics available from:
Jan-July '23 from Austin Intl. Airport
and
12 Months total from July '22 to June 30 '23 from STL Intl. Airport
STL is averaging better numbers when considering smaller seat configuration (a-330 vs 787) each flight.
[a330-300= 255 seats 787 Dreamliner= 294 seats 294-255= 39 more seats AUS departures :: 52 weeks at 6 weekly flights(3 RT) = 312 flights total (both airports) :: 312 X 39 seats = 12,168 more seats on AUS 787]
https://www.austintexas.gov/news/july-2 ... -bergstrom
STL to FRA
July 1, 2022 and June 30, 2023 (one year)
65,000 passengers
AVERAGE MONTHLY PAX: 5,416 per month
Three Weekly R/T Flights
a330-300 Lufthansa 255 total passengers
AUS TO FRA
January 2023 – July 2023 Total Pax: 39,125
AVERAGE MONTHLY PAX: 5,589 per month
Three Weekly R/T Flights
787 Dreamliner Lufthansa 294 total passengers
Looking at these with the statistics available from:
Jan-July '23 from Austin Intl. Airport
and
12 Months total from July '22 to June 30 '23 from STL Intl. Airport
STL is averaging better numbers when considering smaller seat configuration (a-330 vs 787) each flight.
[a330-300= 255 seats 787 Dreamliner= 294 seats 294-255= 39 more seats AUS departures :: 52 weeks at 6 weekly flights(3 RT) = 312 flights total (both airports) :: 312 X 39 seats = 12,168 more seats on AUS 787]
https://www.austintexas.gov/news/july-2 ... -bergstrom
Austin was also on an A330 until Maymatguy70 wrote: ↑Oct 10, 2023Breaking down passenger statistics in comparison market: AUSTIN (to Frankfurt on Lufthansa)
STL to FRA
July 1, 2022 and June 30, 2023 (one year)
65,000 passengers
AVERAGE MONTHLY PAX: 5,416 per month
Three Weekly R/T Flights
a330-300 Lufthansa 255 total passengers
AUS TO FRA
January 2023 – July 2023 Total Pax: 39,125
AVERAGE MONTHLY PAX: 5,589 per month
Three Weekly R/T Flights
787 Dreamliner Lufthansa 294 total passengers
Looking at these with the statistics available from:
Jan-July '23 from Austin Intl. Airport
and
12 Months total from July '22 to June 30 '23 from STL Intl. Airport
STL is averaging better numbers when considering smaller seat configuration (a-330 vs 787) each flight.
[a330-300= 255 seats 787 Dreamliner= 294 seats 294-255= 39 more seats AUS departures :: 52 weeks at 6 weekly flights(3 RT) = 312 flights total (both airports) :: 312 X 39 seats = 12,168 more seats on AUS 787]
https://www.austintexas.gov/news/july-2 ... -bergstrom