Nashville

dweebe · PostApr 10, 2023#2262023-04-10T02:26+00:00

Random thoughts after spending a few days in Nashville

their building boom is insane. Reminds me of Seattle or Austin in its craziness.
Broadway is just nuts with all the rooftop bars, multi levels celebrity endorsed places.
the city has really because a douchebag magnet. The charm that used to be in Nashville is gone with all the bar bikes, tractors, open top buses and other show-off-while-drinking things.
Nashville knows where it's bread is buttered because the level of policing is unlike any city I've seen. Many cop cars, lots of officers on foot and not just Friday/Saturday night. Mid-day there'd be 4 to 6 cop cars with lights on along Broadway. At night that number would grow to 10 or 12.
I do envy their level of foot traffic even many blocks away from Broadway.
Having seen Geodis Park again I'm just so much happier with Citypark. Their soccer stadium is in a weird location and the area around it is odd. They are building some huge apartments next to it but the roads, parking and pedestrian access stinks. Maybe it works better on match days but with nothing going on it just seems weird.
The growth around Vanderbilt and on the campus reminds me totally of Wash U's massive undertakings.
But once you get past the downtown, Music Row and West End, that's it.

STLEnginerd · PostApr 10, 2023#2272023-04-10T12:20+00:00

dweebe wrote: ↑
Apr 10, 2023

But once you get past the downtown, Music Row and West End, that's it.

FWIW Five Points is a neat neighborhood as well.

dweebe · PostApr 10, 2023#2282023-04-10T13:08+00:00

STLEnginerd wrote: ↑
Apr 10, 2023
dweebe wrote: ↑
Apr 10, 2023

But once you get past the downtown, Music Row and West End, that's it.

FWIW Five Points is a neat neighborhood as well.

Fair point and we did drive through but didn't stop in that area this time. Even still I should have listed it.

PostApr 19, 2023#2292023-04-19T23:52+00:00

Interesting Reddit thread

STLEnginerd · PostApr 20, 2023#2302023-04-20T14:57+00:00

I weep for them...

I have a hard time feeling sympathy for a boomtown but after reading some of the comments I guess I get it. I will say its somewhat akin to crying about the cost of maintenance on your Range Rover. You can't have it both ways.

I will also say the explosive growth St. Louis saw at the turn of the last century brought plenty of challenges but also resulted in the establishment of multiple world class institutions which have paid dividends for generations as well as an amazingly durable if now in many ways neglected built environment. So i guess my suggestion to Nashville is extract as much public value as you can out of the current expansion so that future Nashvillans will reap enduring rewards. Parks, Museums, Libraries, Architechture, Infrastructure, Neighborhoods etc.

GoHarvOrGoHome · PostApr 20, 2023#2312023-04-20T15:20+00:00

I personally would love some Nashville level explosive growth, but to be fair, STL actually has the room and infrastructure to support it.

goat314 · PostApr 20, 2023#2322023-04-20T15:24+00:00

GoHarvOrGoHome wrote: ↑
Apr 20, 2023
I personally would love some Nashville level explosive growth, but to be fair, STL actually has the room and infrastructure to support it.

St. Louis could eat that little growth up with no issue. It's amazing how much investment is happening in these cities that have no where near the infrastructure to support that kind of growth. Nashville has traffic like Atlanta and it's smaller than St. Louis. Speaking of Atlanta, I was there recently and that's another region that has no business being home to 6 million people. It was also very run down and tired in comparison to say Dallas, which was definitely designed to be a massive, sprawling city.

PostApr 20, 2023#2332023-04-20T15:30+00:00

STLEnginerd wrote: ↑
Apr 20, 2023
I weep for them...

I have a hard time feeling sympathy for a boomtown but after reading some of the comments I guess I get it. I will say its somewhat akin to crying about the cost of maintenance on your Range Rover. You can't have it both ways.

I will also say the explosive growth St. Louis saw at the turn of the last century brought plenty of challenges but also resulted in the establishment of multiple world class institutions which have paid dividends for generations as well as an amazingly durable if now in many ways neglected built environment. So i guess my suggestion to Nashville is extract as much public value as you can out of the current expansion so that future Nashvillans will reap enduring rewards. Parks, Museums, Libraries, Architechture, Infrastructure, Neighborhoods etc.

Very true about legacy cities and the how the bones we have is a result of our former boomtown status. The problem is that America does not make the level of infrastructure development that we made 100 years ago, or even 50 years ago. Could you imagine trying to build the highways and railroad infrastructure we have today? NIMBYism would squash every proposal or run up the costs, which I guess is good in a way because you can't just displace thousands of people at a time but it does prevent major infrastructure from being built cost effectively. Also, Nashville recently squashed rail transit and so did Tampa recently. These cities are doing absolutely nothing to improve infrastructure or quality of life. Developers just build whatever they want and contribute very little to the infrastructure fund.

dweebe · PostApr 20, 2023#2342023-04-20T15:59+00:00

goat314 wrote: ↑
Apr 20, 2023
GoHarvOrGoHome wrote: ↑
Apr 20, 2023
I personally would love some Nashville level explosive growth, but to be fair, STL actually has the room and infrastructure to support it.
St. Louis could eat that little growth up with no issue. It's amazing how much investment is happening in these cities that have no where near the infrastructure to support that kind of growth. Nashville has traffic like Atlanta and it's smaller than St. Louis. Speaking of Atlanta, I was there recently and that's another region that has no business being home to 6 million people. It was also very run down and tired in comparison to say Dallas, which was definitely designed to be a massive, sprawling city.

Yes, I would take some of that explosive growth.
How many of those companies moving to Nashville are going there simply because there is no state income tax?
Yes, the Nashville traffic and driving is hellacious
I agree with Atlanta. But how much of that energy drop is due to the number of people relocating from there to Nashville?

STLEnginerd · PostApr 20, 2023#2352023-04-20T16:23+00:00

Honestly I think the leadership of a lot of big companies get kind of enamored with the glamour of these towns as much as anyone else. If its was just state income tax there are plenty of options and many that have much better airports with more international flight connections.

moorlander · PostApr 20, 2023#2362023-04-20T23:15+00:00

All this explosive growth here and in Austin and neither had a big airport with tons of direct flights like Denver, Atlanta, Dallas, etc.

dweebe · PostApr 20, 2023#2372023-04-20T23:25+00:00

moorlander wrote: ↑
Apr 20, 2023
All this explosive growth here and in Austin and neither had a big airport with tons of direct flights like Denver, Atlanta, Dallas, etc.

Plus Nashville got Oracle's HQ2 without a BNA<>SFO or OAK nonstop. Or a significant Amazon presence without a BNA<>SEA nonstop.

robertn42 · PostApr 21, 2023#2382023-04-21T13:29+00:00

The harsh reality is our reputation sucks. The crime stats are punishing. The talent we recruit from out of the area ALWAYS brings it up as a concern and often chooses an offer from a more appealing city.

Just this week, we were discussing sites for our national sales meeting next year (250-300 from our surgical team). Nashville, San Antonio, Palm Springs and Orlando were on the table. St. Louis was mentioned as a potential option since logistically a significant amount of our internal people and equipment are based here (we employ 600+ across 3 facilities in the area). Leadership outwardly smirked, dismissed the idea, and moved on to push for Nashville. Noting that St. Louis couldn't support a meeting of this size (I pushed back hard on that comment). But in fairness our facilities are outside of 270 and the C-suite team stays in hotels outside of 270 when they work here (we are HQ's in NJ) and their view of St. Louis is of a little flyover town.

The view of this city sucks

jshank83 · PostApr 21, 2023#2392023-04-21T13:48+00:00

robertn42 wrote: ↑
Apr 21, 2023
The harsh reality is our reputation sucks. The crime stats are punishing. The talent we recruit from out of the area ALWAYS brings it up as a concern and often chooses an offer from a more appealing city.

Just this week, we were discussing sites for our national sales meeting next year (250-300 from our surgical team). Nashville, San Antonio, Palm Springs and Orlando were on the table. St. Louis was mentioned as a potential option since logistically a significant amount of our internal people and equipment are based here (we employ 600+ across 3 facilities in the area). Leadership outwardly smirked, dismissed the idea, and moved on to push for Nashville. Noting that St. Louis couldn't support a meeting of this size (I pushed back hard on that comment). But in fairness our facilities are outside of 270 and the C-suite team stays in hotels outside of 270 when they work here (we are HQ's in NJ) and their view of St. Louis is of a little flyover town.

The view of this city sucks

STL couldn’t support a meeting of 300 people? I feel like almost anywhere can support 300 people.

dweebe · PostApr 21, 2023#2402023-04-21T14:05+00:00

robertn42 wrote: ↑
Apr 21, 2023
The harsh reality is our reputation sucks. The crime stats are punishing. The talent we recruit from out of the area ALWAYS brings it up as a concern and often chooses an offer from a more appealing city.

Just this week, we were discussing sites for our national sales meeting next year (250-300 from our surgical team). Nashville, San Antonio, Palm Springs and Orlando were on the table. St. Louis was mentioned as a potential option since logistically a significant amount of our internal people and equipment are based here (we employ 600+ across 3 facilities in the area). Leadership outwardly smirked, dismissed the idea, and moved on to push for Nashville. Noting that St. Louis couldn't support a meeting of this size (I pushed back hard on that comment). But in fairness our facilities are outside of 270 and the C-suite team stays in hotels outside of 270 when they work here (we are HQ's in NJ) and their view of St. Louis is of a little flyover town.

The view of this city sucks

St. Louis is never going to be able to beat Nashville, San Antonio, Palm Springs and Orlando for meetings and conventions. Add New Orleans and Las Vegas to that list.

GoHarvOrGoHome · PostApr 21, 2023#2412023-04-21T14:27+00:00

U.S. Adds 4 Million Jobs But In St. Louis

This is the national vibe we are up against

sc4mayor · PostApr 21, 2023#2422023-04-21T14:40+00:00

We had our National sales meeting downtown at Union Station. Probably 300-400 people and there was another conference happening at the same time.

Rave reviews, we have 50 locations across the US, Canada and Mexico and people loved the facilities, the city, etc. One night we bussed everyone through Lafayette Square and Soulard and had our big party at the AB beer garden. They even had a Clydesdale out there for us. It was huge hit, people were talking about the architecture and all the brick.

Our next one is at Union Station but we’re thinking about renting the Ultra Club at CityPark for the big party this time around.

TalkinDev · PostApr 21, 2023#2432023-04-21T14:44+00:00

^^ Onion article from 2011.
^^^Palm Springs, Orlando and Las Vegas is understandable. But, what natural advantages do Nashville, San Antonio, and New Orleans have that haven't been "created" over the last couple of decades. How would St. Louis change the narrative and create a reputation as "cool" place to go?

How did Nashville go from home of the Grand Ole' Oprey to Nash Vegas?
San Antonio became cool when they converted essentially River Des Peres into the RiverWalk.
New Orleans is hotter and more humid than St. Louis with similar crime, but built a reputation on a month of parties, Bourbon Street, Historic neighborhoods and fine dining

pdm_ad · PostApr 21, 2023#2442023-04-21T14:49+00:00

Perception, however flawed, is reality. And I agree that our reputation stinks, mainly due IMO to the silly and arbitrary most dangerous lists and the negative pub they generate.

Fold the City and County stats together and we disappear off all these lists. That alone, would do wonders for our reputation.

RockChalkSTL · PostApr 21, 2023#2452023-04-21T15:01+00:00

St. Louis could go back to adding that Chouteau Lake. They could also just keep doing what they're doing, which is adding residential projects and attractions to the Central Corridor. MLS, City Foundry, Top Golf, etc. -- there's plenty that is new or coming that should benefit the city, and that have the potential to change local perceptions.

We're going to have to change those before we can reasonably expect to change national perceptions.

robertn42 · PostApr 21, 2023#2462023-04-21T15:09+00:00

The # of people comment was that STL doesn't have large enough hotels to house our group in 1 space (not true). I agree with all of you and I walked our execs through the options: Marriott Renaissance, Union Station, Chase, Hilton @ the Ballpark, DT Hyatt, etc. and we will consider STL in the coming years. What was disappointing was their initial reaction to the suggestion. Our reputation sucks and it harms us greatly when competing with other cities.

dweebe · PostApr 21, 2023#2472023-04-21T15:35+00:00

TalkinDev wrote: ↑
Apr 21, 2023
^^ Onion article from 2011.
^^^Palm Springs, Orlando and Las Vegas is understandable. But, what natural advantages do Nashville, San Antonio, and New Orleans have that haven't been "created" over the last couple of decades. How would St. Louis change the narrative and create a reputation as "cool" place to go?

How did Nashville go from home of the Grand Ole' Oprey to Nash Vegas?
San Antonio became cool when they converted essentially River Des Peres into the RiverWalk.
New Orleans is hotter and more humid than St. Louis with similar crime, but built a reputation on a month of parties, Bourbon Street, Historic neighborhoods and fine dining

The Riverwalk, French Quarter and Broadway/Second Street are all single point destinations. You can put people/groups in hotels nearby and walk to those and have one set of buses running to/from. It's easy for a convention/meeting planner.

addxb2 · PostApr 21, 2023#2482023-04-21T16:16+00:00

Nashville is just enough typographically unique that it works for millennials who make “hiking” a key component of their personality.

That being said, I have coworkers who recently moved from Seattle to Nashville. They all say the same thing. It’s great for corporate meetings (good food, vibes) but that fades quickly unless your someone who likes country music and drinking every weekend. They have also mentioned that the housing is terrible. Old stuff has no character or is no longer affordable. New stuff was never cheap and terribly built.

eee123 · PostApr 21, 2023#2492023-04-21T18:17+00:00

I've long been baffled by the allure of Nashville. What makes it so great? I have nothing against it, I just don't see where it stands out vs. any other regional city in the midwest/south.

If I had to choose a place to move within six hours of St. Louis, it'd probably be in the bottom half. Maybe it would've been in the top half before the housing prices there skyrocketed past every other regional city.

For visiting, again, what's so great about it? There are plenty of fun activities to fill a weekend trip in just about every city within six hours of here.

dweebe · PostApr 21, 2023#2502023-04-21T18:46+00:00

eee123 wrote: ↑
Apr 21, 2023
I've long been baffled by the allure of Nashville. What makes it so great? I have nothing against it, I just don't see where it stands out vs. any other regional city in the midwest/south.

If I had to choose a place to move within six hours of St. Louis, it'd probably be in the bottom half. Maybe it would've been in the top half before the housing prices there skyrocketed past every other regional city.

For visiting, again, what's so great about it? There are plenty of fun activities to fill a weekend trip in just about every city within six hours of here.

Nashville used to be a nice getaway for a weekend. Hotels weren't that expensive, easy 4 1/2 hour drive, parking and traffic wasn't a concern. A small group of us used to go to catch a Predators or Titans game and have a good time.

But you could see the turn in the late 00's as the boom started and the charm went away. Hotels sell out or are expensively priced. Have to budget an extra $50-100 just for parking. Drinks a lot more expensive as is food. Bars a lot busier. Maybe it's a function of me getting older but the visitors just seem louder and more obnoxious. Nash Vegas is a very apt term.

Nashville

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