urbanSTL

STLEnginerd wrote: ↑

Mar 28, 2023

I realize there is demand for parking.  That demand decreases as its cost increases.  You raise the cost by having less of it.  Its not a easy needle to thread because businesses need to feel supported or they will move so i think to transition toward a more urban vision for St. louis you need engagement with and buy-in from the bussiness community.  But an active, thriving downtown means people living and working IN downtown.  The car commuter dependent model is broken.

Outside of New York you might say the transit commuter dependent model is also broken.   Can't speak for how Metra is doing in Chicago but BART is really struggling out here because San Fran has one of lowest return to office ratios in the country.   BART had huge commuter traffic numbers that supported  a transit system financial model built on almost entirely on people getting to the office.  

Have to agree though, say outside of a few big US cities most downtowns like St Louis really do need residences and all the above approach.   

This all sounds like there's much less need for all the parking spaces built Downtown. Even 1 space per apartment would be much less than how much parking per square foot is required for an office of workers. 

My two cent take on the focus and or discussion on parking is misguided probably for any downtown.   The discussion  for downtowns is really about land value.  What can the city do or encourage development that drives demand such that owners see more value in built environment than a flat environment.     Most development is still private capital at end of day and the notion if making downtown property ownership via taxes, fees and so on without a demand encourages only one thing.   A flight of the very capital you need to build a built environment.  

So my five point wishful plan utilizing Rams Settlement funds.   

-  Affordable Housing, $50 million, downtown, multi unit grants $5 to $10 million for x # of affordable units on existing structures (think Railway Exchange).  Heck make it a competition, more affordable housing the better chance on getting a grant and a larger grant.  
-  Affordable Housing,  $20 million, individual down payment grants and or small biz rehab for the near northside.  Get the employed person out of a monthly rent check and into a mortgage payment.   
- City Infrastructure - streets, sidewalks, and trees $50 million
- Freeway Removal - Remove raised freeway between Wash Ave & Cass Ave as well as  blvd/street rebuild next to Dome/near nearside, setaside $50 million for matching
-  Convention Space phase II funding gap, $30 mllion.  Conventions bring people into downtown, fill hotel rooms and jobs

there is some behind the scenes effort to see if the butler brothers building developer would like to take a stab at another big downtown building- from all indications the developer has had a positive experience so far working with the City of BB

STLEnginerd wrote: ↑

Mar 29, 2023

dredger wrote: ↑

Mar 29, 2023

My two cent take on the focus and or discussion on parking is misguided probably for any downtown.   The discussion  for downtowns is really about land value.  What can the city do or encourage development that drives demand such that owners see more value in built environment than a flat environment.     Most development is still private capital at end of day and the notion if making downtown property ownership via taxes, fees and so on without a demand encourages only one thing.   A flight of the very capital you need to build a built environment.  

Well there is always the idea to change how they apply property taxes.

Raise the tax on land and lower the tax on improvements with the aim to be revenue neutral.  Encourages putting vacant land to productive uses.  Also reduces tax burden on productive properties since they are then offset by the taxes on the vacant land.

YES YES YES YES! LVT FOR THE WINNNNNNN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Here's a good Strong Towns primer on the LVT for those not already familiar: 

It's pretty wild how KMOV's opening day preview coverage this afternoon is all about how the police will keep people safe.

Tens of thousands of people will be around. Everybody will be able to leave downtown before it even gets dark, yet safety is apparently a major concern.

eee123 wrote: ↑

Mar 29, 2023

It's pretty wild how KMOV's opening day preview coverage this afternoon is all about how the police will keep people safe.

Tens of thousands of people will be around. Everybody will be able to leave downtown before it even gets dark, yet safety is apparently a major concern.

Same story on KSDK. "Take the metro, walk in groups, don't leave valuables in your car".

Idiocy. "Walk in groups" is decent advice for late at night, but 2 in the afternoon on any day, let alone a day with tens of thousands of people downtown is kind of insane advice for a downtown of a first-world country.

STLCityMike wrote: ↑

Mar 29, 2023

eee123 wrote: ↑

Mar 29, 2023

It's pretty wild how KMOV's opening day preview coverage this afternoon is all about how the police will keep people safe.

Tens of thousands of people will be around. Everybody will be able to leave downtown before it even gets dark, yet safety is apparently a major concern.

Same story on KSDK. "Take the metro, walk in groups, don't leave valuables in your car".

At least they are saying take the metro

I guess all the car break-ins make the metro look hassle free in comparison.

Sure I'm late to this, but just saw Kaldis left Citygarden. Really disappointing.

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Suds wrote: ↑

Apr 03, 2023

Sure I'm late to this, but just saw Kaldis left Citygarden. Really disappointing.

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It is not disappointing, it’s actually great news. Now someone can open an actual restaurant there instead of a seasonal coffee bar

Downtown is the only 2 sq mile area in the region that gets 100,000-200,000 people every day from workers, visitors, conventions, residents, sporting events etc. coffee place that was open 8am to 2pm wouldn’t work anywhere

Hopefully another concept works there, but I'm still going to miss it and I think it's a loss. I'd been going there since I moved to St. Louis in 2019 and went pretty often as I work next door. While I wish it hadn't been seasonal and had longer hours, most coffee shops in the city close early afternoon and seem to do alright.

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Maybe a fancy restaurant would do better in this location? Especially when the Beacon on Chestnut is complete. It’s a spectacular location


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CG91 wrote: ↑

Apr 03, 2023

Maybe a fancy restaurant would do better in this location? Especially when the Beacon on Chestnut is complete. It’s a spectacular location


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There was a fancy restaurant there (Terrace View): The Scoop: The Terrace View to close due to lack of downtown dinner-goers

dbInSouthCity wrote: ↑

Apr 03, 2023

Downtown is the only 2 sq mile area in the region that gets 100,000-200,000 people every day from workers, visitors, conventions, residents, sporting events etc.    coffee place that was open 8am to 2pm wouldn’t work anywhere

Downtown STL has 100K to 200K people on the streets *every day*?  DB, I know you're a huge DT booster and I respect it, but dial it back a little. LOL.  Absent a sporting event and post Covid, I'd put that number closer to like 20K for ~225 days a year.  20K all spread out over those 2 square miles.

I have an office just east of the soccer stadium and other than the workers on the Butler Bros building, there's literally no people walking the DT streets there.  maybe some homeless dudes. tumbleweeds mostly. 

Lastly, I think the City Garden is best served by regular/rotating food trucks - which it seems to have -- rather than a brick-and-mortar restaurant.  Just not enough *daily* critical mass of people-on-the-streets for a brick-and-mortar restaurant. 

Cell phone geofenced data for non sporting event days during the normal summer game is 75,000-110,000 and 150,000 with a cardinals game. 200,000 with cardinals, blues, city sc and volleyball like this past weekend.

soulardx wrote: ↑

Apr 04, 2023

dbInSouthCity wrote: ↑

Apr 03, 2023

Downtown is the only 2 sq mile area in the region that gets 100,000-200,000 people every day from workers, visitors, conventions, residents, sporting events etc.    coffee place that was open 8am to 2pm wouldn’t work anywhere

Downtown STL has 100K to 200K people on the streets *every day*?  DB, I know you're a huge DT booster and I respect it, but dial it back a little. LOL.  Absent a sporting event and post Covid, I'd put that number closer to like 20K for ~225 days a year.  20K all spread out over those 2 square miles.

I have an office just east of the soccer stadium and other than the workers on the Butler Bros building, there's literally no people walking the DT streets there.  maybe some homeless dudes. tumbleweeds mostly. 

Lastly, I think the City Garden is best served by regular/rotating food trucks - which it seems to have -- rather than a brick-and-mortar restaurant.  Just not enough *daily* critical mass of people-on-the-streets for a brick-and-mortar restaurant. 

Yes, I also find it hard to believe downtown St. Louis has that many people daily. It would be packed to the brim everyday and we would definitely have full storefronts. I was just in Atlanta and Dallas last week, people talk about the sprawl in these cities, but their downtowns were active, attractive, and head and shoulders above St. Louis. Even Downtown Birmingham had a cleaner and more put together Downtown than St. Louis, it truly is embarrassing. St. Louis has wonderful neighborhoods, but Downtown is definitely not our strength and sadly that's how most visitors will assess your city.