State Rep Ian Mackeys explanation for supporting the state commission control of SLMPD
^Thanks and good stuff. The whistleblower provision is great and so too the state auditor report. Hopefully the Senate doesn't ***** it up or waylay it for other priorities.
For reference, here's the bill's page on the House site: https://house.mo.gov/Bill.aspx?bill=HB%20702&style=new
For reference, here's the bill's page on the House site: https://house.mo.gov/Bill.aspx?bill=HB%20702&style=new
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I think he hit the nail on the head. The City has ran the department for 5 years now and in that time, the department has gotten way worse. Not only has the pay dropped to horrible levels comparatively, the equipment has as well. There have been no new vehicles added to the fleet in over a year, until this week. The department garage is now a city garage, with dozens of police vehicles having to sit for months out of service when they used to have been fixed in a day or two. Everyone knows about the issues at the 911 and EMS Dispatch centers. The dispatchers are making less than fast food workers, but are often the first lifeline for a citizen or an officers. Not to mention the radio infrastructure itself leaves much to be desired. Human resources, budget and finance, etc, have all been merged with City departments, which has caused nothing but manning shortages and administrative nightmares since in the 5 years since the city has taken over, no effort was made to merge the actual software or the methods in which that stuff has been handled.dbInSouthCity wrote: ↑Mar 02, 2023State Rep Ian Mackeys explanation for supporting the state commission control of SLMPD
The department is at a critical point. Through the end of February, they've already lost 30+ officers, mostly to other departments or due to retirements. I know the numbers are thrown out there and no one will agree, but districts which used to have 15-20 officers a shift, now have 4-10. Its appalling.
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Dept has been under City control for 10 years nor five. The states track record running the KC dept isn’t great. The states record running anything isn’t great, the state highway patrol is short 200 and it’s about the same size as we are
we gave police officers a $8,000 raise in 2017, and the best in state pension doubled the average police officer gets. Also large majority that leave the dept do not leave for other depts. they either retire or go in another field. I have this data from the budget division
we gave police officers a $8,000 raise in 2017, and the best in state pension doubled the average police officer gets. Also large majority that leave the dept do not leave for other depts. they either retire or go in another field. I have this data from the budget division
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You're right. A raise was given in 2017 along with the then new contract the officers signed. The agreement was that the city would bargain in good faith when each contract expired. Instead a contract was nullified in 2020 and officers still don't have one. And I'm sure many of the 180 officers that left last year retired or entered other fields. But I know plenty went to St. Louis County, St. Charles County, Clayton, Ladue, Olivette, Florissant, Kirkwood, Ballwin, Chesterfield, and over a dozen are at the NGA. The common denominator with all these departments? Higher salary and less workload.dbInSouthCity wrote: ↑Mar 03, 2023Dept has been under City control for 10 years nor five. The states track record running the KC dept isn’t great. The states record running anything isn’t great, the state highway patrol is short 200 and it’s about the same size as we are
we gave police officers a $8,000 raise in 2017, and the best in state pension doubled the average police officer gets. Also large majority that leave the dept do not leave for other depts. they either retire or go in another field. I have this data from the budget division
And the department was previously under state control for for a long time. And things seemed to run a lot smoother then, than they do now.
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That's a great question, for the lawmakers that wrote it. My assumption is that the Board of Commissioners will organize the negotiations regarding pay, etc, hopefully making the Department an attractive place for police officers to work and actually stay. If they could hold onto officers, maybe instead of 7 cops patrolling a district, they get it back up to 10. I'm sure they'd rather have 10 guys answering 15 calls each instead of 7 guys handling 22 each in a shift.quincunx wrote: ↑Mar 03, 2023How will state control raise pay or lower workload?
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It is a personal affront to me that I am not allowed to own a combat loaded AH-64E Apache Guardian.kipfilet wrote: ↑Mar 02, 2023gun control is regressive and anti-poor people.
But for real, gun control can very negatively impact minorities and other marginalized groups, such as LGBTQ.
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The City of St. Louis has reached a landmark pay raise agreement with the St. Louis Police Officers Association that will give officers and sergeants their largest raises in at least two decades.
The raises – which translate to about $6,000 to $8,000 for officers with 10 years of experience – are part of a collective bargaining agreement that more than 2/3 of the city’s police officers and almost all of its sergeants agreed to Thursday, according to St. Louis Police Officers Association Business Manager Joe Steiger.
Officers and sergeants have been operating without a contract since June 30, 2020. Mayor Tishaura Jones took office the following year, and union leaders have been critical of Jones' decisions regarding police issues including reducing its manning table by 100 officers.
Steiger said several members of Jones' administration, including newly-appointed Chief Robert Tracy, newly-appointed Personnel Director Sonya Jenkins-Gray and Chief Operations Officer Nancy Cross "put this over the finish line."
“It’s a meaningful raise,” he said. “It closes the gap and it’s a step in the right direction.”
The new contract also came with some costs to union members – including officers giving up their right to have a say in seniority, transfers and arbitration issues.
Steiger said what was given up wasn't as important as trying to stop officers from leaving at record rates to other higher-paying agencies.
“We understand people weren’t leaving the police department because they didn’t get senior pick on vacation schedules, they were leaving because they were so underpaid and we were addressing the most pressing need,” Steiger said. “When you’re bleeding officers, you have to take drastic measures and we have to do everything we can to recruit and retain and we agreed to it.
“The troops are happy. Everyone that walked in that voted said, ‘It’s not great, but I’ll take it, it’s the best we’ve had in a long time.’ And we did it without a tax increase,” he added.
The move comes at a time when the police union is lobbying to have the state take control of the police department.
City leaders included a provision in the new contract that allows the raises to be revoked should the state get control of the department. Steiger declined to comment on the issue.
Firefighters will get raises from the agreement, too. That’s because the city has a pay parity charter provision between police and firefighters.
Police commanders also will see bumps in their pay because the city also has a regulation that prohibits pay compression between ranks. The cost of those raises will have to be determined by city budget leaders, Steiger said.
Steiger estimates the total pay raises will cost the city at least $16 million.
Union and city leaders are expected to sign the collective bargaining agreement sometime next week, and the raises will take effect July 1.
Once signed, every officer and sergeant will get a $3,000 retention incentive, Steiger said.
Here is a look at how the new raises break down:
Starting pay for officers will rise to almost $54,000 from $50,600.
Officers with 0-10 years on will get 8% raises.
Those with 11-20 will get 10% raises.
And those with 21-30 years will get 12%.
Sergeants with those experience levels will see raises of 9%, 11% and 13%.
The raises – which translate to about $6,000 to $8,000 for officers with 10 years of experience – are part of a collective bargaining agreement that more than 2/3 of the city’s police officers and almost all of its sergeants agreed to Thursday, according to St. Louis Police Officers Association Business Manager Joe Steiger.
Officers and sergeants have been operating without a contract since June 30, 2020. Mayor Tishaura Jones took office the following year, and union leaders have been critical of Jones' decisions regarding police issues including reducing its manning table by 100 officers.
Steiger said several members of Jones' administration, including newly-appointed Chief Robert Tracy, newly-appointed Personnel Director Sonya Jenkins-Gray and Chief Operations Officer Nancy Cross "put this over the finish line."
“It’s a meaningful raise,” he said. “It closes the gap and it’s a step in the right direction.”
The new contract also came with some costs to union members – including officers giving up their right to have a say in seniority, transfers and arbitration issues.
Steiger said what was given up wasn't as important as trying to stop officers from leaving at record rates to other higher-paying agencies.
“We understand people weren’t leaving the police department because they didn’t get senior pick on vacation schedules, they were leaving because they were so underpaid and we were addressing the most pressing need,” Steiger said. “When you’re bleeding officers, you have to take drastic measures and we have to do everything we can to recruit and retain and we agreed to it.
“The troops are happy. Everyone that walked in that voted said, ‘It’s not great, but I’ll take it, it’s the best we’ve had in a long time.’ And we did it without a tax increase,” he added.
The move comes at a time when the police union is lobbying to have the state take control of the police department.
City leaders included a provision in the new contract that allows the raises to be revoked should the state get control of the department. Steiger declined to comment on the issue.
Firefighters will get raises from the agreement, too. That’s because the city has a pay parity charter provision between police and firefighters.
Police commanders also will see bumps in their pay because the city also has a regulation that prohibits pay compression between ranks. The cost of those raises will have to be determined by city budget leaders, Steiger said.
Steiger estimates the total pay raises will cost the city at least $16 million.
Union and city leaders are expected to sign the collective bargaining agreement sometime next week, and the raises will take effect July 1.
Once signed, every officer and sergeant will get a $3,000 retention incentive, Steiger said.
Here is a look at how the new raises break down:
Starting pay for officers will rise to almost $54,000 from $50,600.
Officers with 0-10 years on will get 8% raises.
Those with 11-20 will get 10% raises.
And those with 21-30 years will get 12%.
Sergeants with those experience levels will see raises of 9%, 11% and 13%.
How is this possible without state control?!
KSDK - St. Louis police to get largest raises in 2 decades, new union contract
https://www.ksdk.com/article/news/inves ... 34e33aa374
KSDK - St. Louis police to get largest raises in 2 decades, new union contract
https://www.ksdk.com/article/news/inves ... 34e33aa374
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List of positions in the police dept...it use to have 1345 and now it has 1245, its basically how many positions are funded but those 100 were never used, it was just there to have a Overtime bucket of money, later on Board of alders restored the OT funding but just gave PD the money instead of tying it to a positionframer wrote: ↑Mar 03, 2023What's a "manning table"?
I noticed again the other night at the Blues game that most of the in-building police were County cops. There were a lot of brown uniforms again.
It's a noticeable change from when it used to be City cops 100% and the only time you saw County police was when they added extra security during the 2019 Stanley Cup run games and watch parties.
It's a noticeable change from when it used to be City cops 100% and the only time you saw County police was when they added extra security during the 2019 Stanley Cup run games and watch parties.
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Umm first off "gun control" is not a policy proposal its way to broad a statement to say any gun control will be negative. The goal of any gun control laws are to reduce firearm deaths. No one would expect it to eliminate all deaths by firearm but I would expect it to have some impact to the per capita rate over a long timescale. Of course that's weighed against inconvenience induced on gun owners, 2nd amendment rights, cost to implement and lost revenue from firearm sales (maybe some others i haven't thought of off the of my head. But lets at least approach it from a good faith perspective that ultimately the goal is to reduce the sales to those not responsible enough to handle the safely. Arbitrarily opposing any action the falls under a broad category of gun control is why there cannot be a political consensus toward actual solutions.Trololzilla wrote: ↑Mar 03, 2023It is a personal affront to me that I am not allowed to own a combat loaded AH-64E Apache Guardian.kipfilet wrote: ↑Mar 02, 2023gun control is regressive and anti-poor people.
But for real, gun control can very negatively impact minorities and other marginalized groups, such as LGBTQ.
Secondly well craft gun control legislation would effect EVERYONE. Naturally that would include minorities and LBGTQ but as stated it seems like you are implying an outsized impact to those groups. I don't know why you would claim that and you didn't present anything to substantiate it. To say the effects would be "very negative" is also a little ridiculous since you aren't referring to a specific proposal. Gauging the effect is hard enough when you know what you are implementing. In this context it is impossible to say.
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Lol is this some kind of poison pill clause to remove the pay raises if the state takes control of the department so they can leverage it as "look, the state taking control will reduce your pay"? If so, I like the way they're playing lmao.dbInSouthCity wrote: ↑Mar 03, 2023City leaders included a provision in the new contract that allows the raises to be revoked should the state get control of the department. Steiger declined to comment on the issue.
Stltoday - Woman shot in Schnucks parking lot in St. Peters
https://www.stltoday.com/news/local/cri ... 4bfe5.html
https://www.stltoday.com/news/local/cri ... 4bfe5.html
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If you are ever feeling down about STL crime, you should pay a visit to Philadelphia... it will totally reverse your negative perception. No, this is not an exaggeration.
Taking SEPTA versus taking the Metro makes us look like Europe, really. I maybe see a mugging/ someone getting jumped every four trips or so. Also, the drug problem is INSANE, like nothing you've ever seen before. I've been conditioned to watching people shoot up right there on the platform or in the train. This is every single time I use public transit or even go on a lengthy walk.
People here rarely yield to pedestrians. I see cars running red lights every day, and that's with legalized traffic cameras. Loud cars love to go 45 down side streets to get to major thoroughfares where they can drive even faster.
Yes, St. Louis has a particularly egregious crime problem, but so does the rest of this country. Statistics really do St. Louis an injustice, which I have only come to realize now that I'm living in a new city.
All of this negative press really hits a nerve, especially when there's not too much progressive news filtering in, but you need to really see it in perspective. People need to stop painting this spike in activity as St. Louis becoming a hell hole and other end-of-world scenarios because this stuff happens all the time. It's more than just a local issue.
This is not to discount what's happening because I've seen it all, and it's terrible. I just hope this anecdote helps a bit. Has anyone else here experienced Philly like this? Thanks.
Taking SEPTA versus taking the Metro makes us look like Europe, really. I maybe see a mugging/ someone getting jumped every four trips or so. Also, the drug problem is INSANE, like nothing you've ever seen before. I've been conditioned to watching people shoot up right there on the platform or in the train. This is every single time I use public transit or even go on a lengthy walk.
People here rarely yield to pedestrians. I see cars running red lights every day, and that's with legalized traffic cameras. Loud cars love to go 45 down side streets to get to major thoroughfares where they can drive even faster.
Yes, St. Louis has a particularly egregious crime problem, but so does the rest of this country. Statistics really do St. Louis an injustice, which I have only come to realize now that I'm living in a new city.
All of this negative press really hits a nerve, especially when there's not too much progressive news filtering in, but you need to really see it in perspective. People need to stop painting this spike in activity as St. Louis becoming a hell hole and other end-of-world scenarios because this stuff happens all the time. It's more than just a local issue.
This is not to discount what's happening because I've seen it all, and it's terrible. I just hope this anecdote helps a bit. Has anyone else here experienced Philly like this? Thanks.
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^ Elek, I haven't been to Philly in some time so I can't comment on what it's like to live there at all, But statistically it is one of those cities I alluded to in a "Does STL Have to Hit Rock Bottom" post yesterday about how STL City homicide levels essentialy have reverted back down to pre-pandemic levels after the alarming 2020 spike seen nationally, while most other cities have not. Philly's exploded in 2020 & increased even further in 2021 before declining somewhat in 2022 but was still about 50% higher than in 2018-2019. New Orleans is probably the hardest hit in terms of homicide with continuing annual increases and it's rate in 2022 was higher than STL City's, while others like Indianapolis, Louisville, Milwaukee, Memphis & Atlanta have jumped dramatically.
Anyway, STL City per capita rates used to be in a class by itself 2015-2019; unfortunately that's not the case anymore. And as you mention, our small geography for a principal city really can warp perception. When you zoom in on more comparable areas of some of these massive land mass cities like Indianapolis, e.g., STL City is much more similar to, and in some cases lower, than others. But still far too high.
Anyway, STL City per capita rates used to be in a class by itself 2015-2019; unfortunately that's not the case anymore. And as you mention, our small geography for a principal city really can warp perception. When you zoom in on more comparable areas of some of these massive land mass cities like Indianapolis, e.g., STL City is much more similar to, and in some cases lower, than others. But still far too high.
Of course the Armory had a bunch of car break ins this last weekend.
https://www.kmov.com/2023/03/06/st-loui ... to-armory/
They look to have added multiple security and camera points and yet that doesn’t stop the thieves.
https://www.kmov.com/2023/03/06/st-loui ... to-armory/
They look to have added multiple security and camera points and yet that doesn’t stop the thieves.
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come on
they (criminals) have been seen waving/smiling or more specific ignoring the cameras for sometime and not just in St. Louis
And when this technology comes down in price you will be able to pick one up at the goodwill outlet adjacent to The Armory
https://www.popsci.com/technology/camera-shy-hoodie-privacy/
they (criminals) have been seen waving/smiling or more specific ignoring the cameras for sometime and not just in St. Louis
And when this technology comes down in price you will be able to pick one up at the goodwill outlet adjacent to The Armory
https://www.popsci.com/technology/camera-shy-hoodie-privacy/
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@Elek.borrelli Agree 100% on Philadelphia. I remember bumping into a guy huffing straight from a spray can on Broad, middle of the lunch hour, just south of City Hall. We can have it rough sometimes, but we sure don't have dudes just smoking crack in the open alongside the Old Court House at noon on Fridays.
US gun violence makes international students and their parents think twice about studying abroad
https://www.grid.news/story/global/2023/03/06/us-gun-violence-makes-international-students-and-their-parents-think-twice-about-studying-abroad/
https://www.grid.news/story/global/2023/03/06/us-gun-violence-makes-international-students-and-their-parents-think-twice-about-studying-abroad/
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That’s just dumb, best thing America has going is that top talent from around the world wants to come here for schooling and we have 4 years to get them to stay afterwards and over the last 50 years have been very successful at that.