urbanSTL

dbInSouthCity wrote: ↑

Dec 19, 2022

The “going out” area of downtown is now this and it’s gone as many predicted- it replaced the places someone listed above on Washington Ave

Now it’s 360, Wheelhouse, Start Bar, Midwestern, Tin Roof, Shark Bar, Crown Room, PBR, Bally’s Live, Sports & Social, Brewhouse, Cardinals Nation and the rest of the village

^ This. I wouldn't take the fact that people don't really go out on Wash Ave anymore as an indicator of the overall health of Downtown, it's just another example of how the popular places in St. Louis tend to change pretty quickly, which I don't see changing until we start growing as a population instead of declining or staying stagnant. 360, Start Bar, Wheelhouse, Tin Roof, Midwestern, and BPV are all packed every weekend night, especially on game days. Younger people are more into these half-bar/half-club places than traditional bars, music venues, and clubs. On that note, I wouldn't be surprised if nightlife in somewhere like The Grove starts slowing down soon as development in Midtown and Downtown West increases.

Speaking as someone who's only lived here about 4 years, Wash Ave has never been known by my friends as a nightlife spot, but more of a good restaurant strip with cool lofts/apartments. I eat on Wash Ave at least once a week and the restaurants all seem to be doing good, at least for lunch. With the more popular ones — Rooster, Sen Thai, Sugarfire, Hi-Pointe — it can be impossible to find a table many days. It seems like the residents want to keep it that way too since they've been trying to enact a curfew and keep any clubs from opening up.

Wash Ave has been taking one step forward and one step back for years now. Yet it's always been 3-4 good concepts in away from being great again.

East Wash Ave (4th-10th) is struggling right now since COVID killed Pi, Gringo, Hamburger Mary's, and Tigin. With convention and hotel traffic back to old numbers I can't imagine these all remaining closed. The lines are insane during peak times. Plus the Landing is adding residents quickly which will spill traffic over.

Central Wash Ave (10th-14th) The corridor that has probably struggled the most over the past decade, but today is looking fairly stable with just a few key vacancies. 

The 1000 block only needs a replacement for Dapper Gents but otherwise looks great.

 The 1100 block looks great on the north side outside of the old 314 Bar space. The southside is an enduring disaster with the giant empty Reign space along with the long vacant Bobby's Place and Plagers Lounge. Would love to see some new construction on one or both of the surface lots too.

The 1200-1400 block is full of small businesses and interesting concepts. Plus great street infrastructure that lends itself to closing the street for outdoor dining periodically. Only big spaces missing here is Lucas Ave, Flannary's, and the long vacant Wasabi space. Still want to see a concept similar to Wash Ave Post open back up in the old space. This strip is not far off.

West Wash Ave (14th - Jefferson) The Eastern end of this section closely resembles the rest of Wash Ave. Filling a few key vacancies such as the 4am Kitchen spot and the cool building at 1500 Washington would go a long way toward fostering more vibrancy here. Sliced Pint is doing crazy good business here since the addition of the Hotels and with more in the pipeline the area can definitely support more concepts. Eli Walker also has huge spaces vacant that I am not sure what to do with. A Walgreens or CVS would be great in one of them. Would really like to see some new construction on the Skyhouse lot, would go a long way towards connecting Wash Ave across 14th.

Further West really depends on planned and future new development. I'm out of time typing this but I'm bullish on that area really benefiting from Butler Bros, the new hotels, and MLS

I think Downtown still has tremendous potential to be a very unique and vibrant place. What's hurting downtown is really just the rundown infrastructure and lack of infill development, still way too many vacant lots and garages. Obviously, we have a huge downtown for a metro our size and with our growth rates we are still likely a couple decades from reaching anything resembling critical mass. Maybe the soccer stadium will spur additional development, but only time will tell. I'd like to see some huge TODs around the downtown Metrolink stations, I feel those are areas that should be totally unrestricted for developers. If the numbers work they should build it, but obviously demand is a necessary component. 

There we have it confirmed, Polsinelli taking 181 employees from Downtown to Clayton in January 2024.

Two fractured diluted Downtown areas cutting each other's throats, and we wonder why our growth is stagnant. 

Suburban Sprawl wrote:There we have it confirmed, Polsinelli taking 181 employees from Downtown to Clayton in January 2024.

Two fractured diluted Downtown areas cutting each other's throats, and we wonder why our growth is stagnant. 

For some reason I thought it was January 2023. Hopefully that gives them to time to find a replacement tenant.

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Courtesy of Citizens for a Greater Downtown St. Louis

Downtown never changes!
I wanted to start 2023 on a positive note but I can’t be fake!









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Breaking: people leaving NYE parties in and around downtown!!!!! (Makes you wonder why the group didn’t post any videos of people leaving the Wheelhouse and the apartment parties around there)
and the two idiots shooting guns in the air is STL, and every other place in the US, it’s stupid, it’s dangerous and there is a reason no city can stop it. You can’t have police at every single block at the time someone decides to fire a gun

dweebe wrote: ↑

Jan 01, 2023

I was downtown last night and outside of around Enterprise/Stifel I didn't see one single police officer. And it was bad with cars speeding, running red lights and going the wrong way up one way streets: all the usual stupidity but kicked up a couple of notches.

I saw officers directing traffic while the Blues game was letting out and people were heading into Stifel to see Nikki Glaser. Later ~1130 I walked out of Stifel and someone(s) were shooting guns in the air in the blocks to the north. Not fun. I ducked behind the railings until my uber showed up.

Remember that TWG developed Level, 'leveled' the Tudor building in deceit, and now it appears it's an AirBNB from all of the posts on that building.  And all Coatar could say was 'oops!' and 'check out my toothless parking lot bill'.

I also appreciate the duality of 'downtown is a ghost town' while you get people coming down for entertainment, but it's not the kind of entertainment you want.  Should this only be a space for $20 martinis or what? I understand there is nuance here of course.  Need more enforcement for problem properties.  If we're going to hot spot neighborhoods, hot spot addresses with historically high CFS volume.  If police presence is not a deterrent, I'm not sure what actually is.  It might send the problem somewhere else, but need to start somewhere with the problem properties.  All of this said, those videos look pretty tame compared to the last couple of NYE's Downtown.

dbInSouthCity wrote: ↑

Jan 01, 2023

and the two idiots shooting guns in the air is STL, and every other place in the US, it’s stupid, it’s dangerous and there is a reason no city can stop it. You can’t have police at every single block at the time someone decides to fire a gun

Those two idiots must have been the ones who shot out at least one of the windows of the Syndicate building across the street. Luckily the one they completely shattered was only in a 2nd floor stairwell and not somebody's apartment. It also added to the unfortunately ubiquitous broken glass on our downtown sidewalks that I have to guide my dog around every day.

The Catholic Convention made Downtown feel real nice. A lot of people and restaurants lines ridiculously long! I know the City can bring conventions like this one more often.


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JJ Taino wrote:The Catholic Convention made Downtown feel real nice. A lot of people and restaurants lines ridiculously long! I know the City can bring conventions like this one more often.


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Same convention is back next year too.

dweebe wrote: ↑

Jan 06, 2023

JJ Taino wrote: ↑

Jan 06, 2023

The Catholic Convention made Downtown feel real nice. A lot of people and restaurants lines ridiculously long! I know the City can bring conventions like this one more often.

Looks like they've been staging buses on the south lot of the Galleria and then cycling them to the hotels along Brentwood and Hanley.

That seems a good indication of the demand existing for some of the proposed hotel projects downtown

dweebe wrote: ↑

Jan 06, 2023

JJ Taino wrote: ↑

Jan 06, 2023

The Catholic Convention made Downtown feel real nice. A lot of people and restaurants lines ridiculously long! I know the City can bring conventions like this one more often.

Looks like they've been staging buses on the south lot of the Galleria and then cycling them to the hotels along Brentwood and Hanley.

the orgs only complaint was not enough rooms in downtown but they've liked everything else that its coming back 

Fariñas Comida Argentina finally got their liquor license… Its embarrassing that the city took a long time. Almost broke them bug they made it. City of STL needs express services like other cities do. Specially in tourist areas like Downtown. They’re playing all locals games at the restaurant as well so they’ll be playing Cards, Blues, STL SC, and STL Battle hawks.


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When are they open?

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It's almost like deliberate sabotage to make it this hard for restaurants to secure liquor licenses. 

dweebe wrote: ↑

Jan 10, 2023

dbInSouthCity wrote: ↑

Jan 06, 2023

dweebe wrote: ↑

Jan 06, 2023

Looks like they've been staging buses on the south lot of the Galleria and then cycling them to the hotels along Brentwood and Hanley.

the orgs only complaint was not enough rooms in downtown but they've liked everything else that its coming back 

How big was it? 

20,000 i think