Stltoday - Penthouses, spa and hotel: St. Louis' AT&T tower marketed as 'vertical city'
https://www.stltoday.com/business/local ... 20af4.html
https://www.stltoday.com/business/local ... 20af4.html
Proximity to a convenient light rail system, the regions premiere entertainment options, dozens of hotels, etc. seems like there are lots of good reasons to be downtown.SouthCityJR wrote: ↑Dec 08, 2022Seems like it will be very tough to get the office portion occupied in this market. It’s currently a buyers market for office space leases so why would a company want to take a chance on such an odd mixed building over a traditional office building? Will the rent be cheaper than elsewhere?
Clayton on the other hand? it’s “safe” and white. That’s basically the selling point.
^ To be fair, Clayton also has good light rail access and hotels too. It’s much closer to the region’s premier university and its crown jewel of a park. It’s more convenient to the airport by car as well…just to name a few. It’s “sterile” downtown aside it punches way above its weight for your average US suburb.
I know the party line on this site is to vehemently hate Clayton but it’s a desirable location for a multitude of reasons and hating it isn’t going to make downtown a better place.
I know the party line on this site is to vehemently hate Clayton but it’s a desirable location for a multitude of reasons and hating it isn’t going to make downtown a better place.
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As somebody who commuted to Clayton on Metrolink for the four months I had that job, Metrolink is a non-factor to the white-collar workers. Even at rush hour I would be getting on/off the train with only a handful of people in business casual attire like myself.
It should also be noted that my employer subsidized my $80 a month parking pass in the building but never even considered offering the option to switch that to a Metro pass despite being in the Sevens building only a few blocks from the station. Me commuting by train was a considered by my peers as a strange thing to do. I'm sure this attitude is mirrored among the vast majority of the Clayton working population.
It should also be noted that my employer subsidized my $80 a month parking pass in the building but never even considered offering the option to switch that to a Metro pass despite being in the Sevens building only a few blocks from the station. Me commuting by train was a considered by my peers as a strange thing to do. I'm sure this attitude is mirrored among the vast majority of the Clayton working population.
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Idk what you mean, SLU is closer to to DT.sc4mayor wrote: ↑Dec 09, 2022^ To be fair, Clayton also has good light rail access and hotels too. It’s much closer to the region’s premier university and its crown jewel of a park. It’s more convenient to the airport by car as well…just to name a few. It’s “sterile” downtown aside it punches way above its weight for your average US suburb.
I know the party line on this site is to vehemently hate Clayton but it’s a desirable location for a multitude of reasons and hating it isn’t going to make downtown a better place.
Clayton is very weak on hotels and has no major office or residential developments near the metrolink. And it’s light rail is oddly unconnected to the airport (that’s one of the places the racism comes into play).
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Penthouses, spa and hotel: St. Louis' AT&T tower marketed as 'vertical city' is that good or bad? lol
I imagine that attitude would translate to white collar workers across the region lol. Downtown included. Hence the need for every project down there to have dedicated parking garages. Clearly companies in downtown STL are treating MetroLink the exact same way.GoHarvOrGoHome wrote: ↑Dec 09, 2022As somebody who commuted to Clayton on Metrolink for the four months I had that job, Metrolink is a non-factor to the white-collar workers. Even at rush hour I would be getting on/off the train with only a handful of people in business casual attire like myself.
It should also be noted that my employer subsidized my $80 a month parking pass in the building but never even considered offering the option to switch that to a Metro pass despite being in the Sevens building only a few blocks from the station. Me commuting by train was a considered by my peers as a strange thing to do. I'm sure this attitude is mirrored among the vast majority of the Clayton working population.
^ I’m talking about Washington University. I know it doesn’t fit the narrative you’re pushing…but SLU isn’t even remotely close to being the regions premier university.
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The SLU thing was pretty clearly a joke.
And which narrative am I “pushing” as if it’s not reality? DT does in fact have a lot to offer a large employer and Clayton is in fact a white flight downtown JR.
And which narrative am I “pushing” as if it’s not reality? DT does in fact have a lot to offer a large employer and Clayton is in fact a white flight downtown JR.
I’m not saying you’re wrong lol. Downtown has way more to offer most if not all companies…which is why I think it’s worth asking why so many of them are turning their backs on downtown.
Destroying Clayton or other St. Louis submarkets isn’t going to accomplish what you want. Making this a region people want to move to might help though. We can offer a multitude of different districts for people to locate in…we just don’t have the regional growth to support them all.
The vast majority of cities have these regional edge cities…the difference is that those other cities are growing and can support all of these places. Meanwhile the downtown boosters here are blaming a 2 square mile city with 17,000 people for all their problems. I lived elsewhere for 12 years and never realized how far up their own asses STL folks are.
Destroying Clayton or other St. Louis submarkets isn’t going to accomplish what you want. Making this a region people want to move to might help though. We can offer a multitude of different districts for people to locate in…we just don’t have the regional growth to support them all.
The vast majority of cities have these regional edge cities…the difference is that those other cities are growing and can support all of these places. Meanwhile the downtown boosters here are blaming a 2 square mile city with 17,000 people for all their problems. I lived elsewhere for 12 years and never realized how far up their own asses STL folks are.
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How do we change the weather and where do we build the lake?sc4mayor wrote: ↑Dec 09, 2022Making this a region people want to move to might help though.
This narrative is ridiculous. Plenty of cities with much worse geography than STL have no problems attracting people. Stl has very mild winters compared to much of the US actually. And there are plenty of lakes as well as the Ozark mountains nearby. STL’s geography is a strength not a weaknessTheWayoftheArch_V2.0 wrote:How do we change the weather and where do we build the lake?sc4mayor wrote: ↑Dec 09, 2022Making this a region people want to move to might help though.
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I think of St. Louis' geography as a strength -- though it is probably underrated in most people's eyes.
For one thing, the winters are mild. The summers, not so much, but there are plenty of worse summers in America. Drive south.
Within six hours by car, you can reach Kansas City, Chicago, Milwaukee, Madison, Memphis, Nashville, Indianapolis, Cincinnati, Louisville, the Kentucky bourbon trail, Des Moines, etc. Columbus, OH is only barely outside that range. You can also go to the Boston Mountains of Arkansas within that range, and the Appalachian Mountains aren't much further (in a different direction).
St. Louis is closer to Atlanta and Detroit than Kansas City is to Denver -- and you hit a few towns of note between here and Atlanta (Nashville, Chattanooga) or Detroit (Indianapolis), unlike Kansas City with Denver. We're also a relatively short flight to anywhere in the county.
St. Louis is also more hilly and has some awesome hiking terrain compared to most of the Midwest. Drive west along the Missouri River from St. Charles County to Jefferson City; or south to the St. Francois Mountains, Arcadia Valley, and Mark Twain Forest; or east to the Shawnee National Forest in Illinois; or north along the Great River Road and those spectacular Mississippi River bluffs. They're all wonderful.
For one thing, the winters are mild. The summers, not so much, but there are plenty of worse summers in America. Drive south.
Within six hours by car, you can reach Kansas City, Chicago, Milwaukee, Madison, Memphis, Nashville, Indianapolis, Cincinnati, Louisville, the Kentucky bourbon trail, Des Moines, etc. Columbus, OH is only barely outside that range. You can also go to the Boston Mountains of Arkansas within that range, and the Appalachian Mountains aren't much further (in a different direction).
St. Louis is closer to Atlanta and Detroit than Kansas City is to Denver -- and you hit a few towns of note between here and Atlanta (Nashville, Chattanooga) or Detroit (Indianapolis), unlike Kansas City with Denver. We're also a relatively short flight to anywhere in the county.
St. Louis is also more hilly and has some awesome hiking terrain compared to most of the Midwest. Drive west along the Missouri River from St. Charles County to Jefferson City; or south to the St. Francois Mountains, Arcadia Valley, and Mark Twain Forest; or east to the Shawnee National Forest in Illinois; or north along the Great River Road and those spectacular Mississippi River bluffs. They're all wonderful.
I respectfully disagree to a point regarding the lack of a lake. And what that really is is a lack of water culture.
I lived in Cincinnati years ago and though no lake in the area, the were marinas on the Ohio, floating restaurants, you knew someone who had a boat and spending all day on the water, puttering up to restaurants, hanging out at serpentine wall, etc. is great fun. Obviously we can't do that. I lived in Atlanta in 2009, no river but Lake Howell (where they filmed Ozark) and Lake Lanier (1996 Olympic venue) are big lakes that are close (I would say Carlyle is a day trip and not a impromptu option, Lake St. Louis is private). Dallas has serval large reservoirs/lakes with waterfront property, Minneapolis has both lake and river water culture, Indy, Tulsa, Columbus, DC, Augusta, GA have better river/lifestyle activation and integration for non-boat owners. Let be honest, we suck. We have three rivers and you're hard pressed to find one bar/restaurant the overlooks the water that not in Grafton. (Yes, I know Mississippi and Missouri are different beasts than the Ohio. But once the Goldenrod left it's like the area just gave up.)
Now let's talk swimming pools. Apartments/condos are private. In the city, they're tied with the Y and expensive. Every (almost) muni has a pool, again expensive and exclusive to residents/guests. I think Queeny and another in South County, forget where, offer day passes. Hanging out by the pool is really hard if you don't have disposable income/pool access opportunity.
Yes, I would love to hop in a car on a lazy Sunday, drive out to Creve Coeur Lake and....or wait, no swimming allowed. Never mind.
Pictures attached of restaurants people who've never been to St. Louis would expect to find in St. Louis but can't. And are probably shocked and go back home and say disappointing STL was.
That said, Kudos and hats off to Big Muddy Adventures. Gotta start somewhere.
I lived in Cincinnati years ago and though no lake in the area, the were marinas on the Ohio, floating restaurants, you knew someone who had a boat and spending all day on the water, puttering up to restaurants, hanging out at serpentine wall, etc. is great fun. Obviously we can't do that. I lived in Atlanta in 2009, no river but Lake Howell (where they filmed Ozark) and Lake Lanier (1996 Olympic venue) are big lakes that are close (I would say Carlyle is a day trip and not a impromptu option, Lake St. Louis is private). Dallas has serval large reservoirs/lakes with waterfront property, Minneapolis has both lake and river water culture, Indy, Tulsa, Columbus, DC, Augusta, GA have better river/lifestyle activation and integration for non-boat owners. Let be honest, we suck. We have three rivers and you're hard pressed to find one bar/restaurant the overlooks the water that not in Grafton. (Yes, I know Mississippi and Missouri are different beasts than the Ohio. But once the Goldenrod left it's like the area just gave up.)
Now let's talk swimming pools. Apartments/condos are private. In the city, they're tied with the Y and expensive. Every (almost) muni has a pool, again expensive and exclusive to residents/guests. I think Queeny and another in South County, forget where, offer day passes. Hanging out by the pool is really hard if you don't have disposable income/pool access opportunity.
Yes, I would love to hop in a car on a lazy Sunday, drive out to Creve Coeur Lake and....or wait, no swimming allowed. Never mind.
Pictures attached of restaurants people who've never been to St. Louis would expect to find in St. Louis but can't. And are probably shocked and go back home and say disappointing STL was.
That said, Kudos and hats off to Big Muddy Adventures. Gotta start somewhere.
Tell people in Florida and Texas that Missouri has mild weather.CG91 wrote: ↑Dec 09, 2022This narrative is ridiculous. Plenty of cities with much worse geography than STL have no problems attracting people. Stl has very mild winters compared to much of the US actually. And there are plenty of lakes as well as the Ozark mountains nearby. STL’s geography is a strength not a weaknessTheWayoftheArch_V2.0 wrote:How do we change the weather and where do we build the lake?sc4mayor wrote: ↑Dec 09, 2022Making this a region people want to move to might help though.
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Name them.CG91 wrote: ↑Dec 09, 2022This narrative is ridiculous. Plenty of cities with much worse geography than STL have no problems attracting people.TheWayoftheArch_V2.0 wrote:How do we change the weather and where do we build the lake?sc4mayor wrote: ↑Dec 09, 2022Making this a region people want to move to might help though.
I posted this jokingly, given the other major obstacles facing our region. Like the SLU joke, obviously we need to state when we are being facetious or sarcastic. We can obviously do neither build a lake or change the climate. Unless Paul McKee say's so. (calm down, also a joke.)
That said, I love this city, but it's winter is harsh (Jan & Feb) it's summers are brutal. A large lake and water culture is a balm on the summer. From Louisville, Nashville, Cinci, Cleveland, Pitt, you name it, they have marinas. They have water culture. And it is an amenity we cannot fake, despite our river city image.
Our geographic position in the center of the country and on 2 major waterways is a strength. No one said it wasn't.
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Likewise, I'd like to see Florida residents tell people in the Midwest that they have mild weather after Hurricane Ian.
We could all use a good insurance crisis.
We could all use a good insurance crisis.
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Mild is different than warm. It's obvious with Arizona et al that people will deal with some extremes. The issue with our beautiful town is that none of the season are particularly mild. Sunbelt cities ARE popular because they are in the warmer areas.
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St. Louis very clearly underutilizes the river and has gotten away from its roots.
That could be changing, though, right? The Marina proposed for north city at I-270 seems to be advancing along.
If it can actually manage to come to fruition, I think that alone would do a lot to change the region's engagement with our bodies of water, and in turn our image in regards to that.
That could be changing, though, right? The Marina proposed for north city at I-270 seems to be advancing along.
If it can actually manage to come to fruition, I think that alone would do a lot to change the region's engagement with our bodies of water, and in turn our image in regards to that.
I mean yeah sure more “water culture” would be nice. I’d love to see the riverfront around downtown be developed and have a marina with recreational boats all around. But that doesn’t mean STL has bad geography. And the winter is fine. It’s basically 2 months long and snows once or twice. Tell someone from Minnesota our winter is harsh and see what they sayTheWayoftheArch_V2.0 wrote:Name them.CG91 wrote: ↑Dec 09, 2022This narrative is ridiculous. Plenty of cities with much worse geography than STL have no problems attracting people.TheWayoftheArch_V2.0 wrote: How do we change the weather and where do we build the lake?
I posted this jokingly, given the other major obstacles facing our region. Like the SLU joke, obviously we need to state when we are being facetious or sarcastic. We can obviously do neither build a lake or change the climate. Unless Paul McKee say's so. (calm down, also a joke.)
That said, I love this city, but it's winter is harsh (Jan & Feb) it's summers are brutal. A large lake and water culture is a balm on the summer. From Louisville, Nashville, Cinci, Cleveland, Pitt, you name it, they have marinas. They have water culture. And it is an amenity we cannot fake, despite our river city image.
Our geographic position in the center of the country and on 2 major waterways is a strength. No one said it wasn't.
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Agreed. I think the next step will be to get one downtown, where the admiral used to moor. I think its used for concerts now.
Anyhow, how bout that Vertical City at 909!
Anyhow, how bout that Vertical City at 909!
#1 - see aboveCG91 wrote: ↑Dec 09, 2022But that doesn’t mean STL has bad geography.TheWayoftheArch_V2.0 wrote:Name them.CG91 wrote: ↑Dec 09, 2022This narrative is ridiculous. Plenty of cities with much worse geography than STL have no problems attracting people.
I posted this jokingly, given the other major obstacles facing our region. Like the SLU joke, obviously we need to state when we are being facetious or sarcastic. We can obviously do neither build a lake or change the climate. Unless Paul McKee say's so. (calm down, also a joke.)
That said, I love this city, but it's winter is harsh (Jan & Feb) it's summers are brutal. A large lake and water culture is a balm on the summer. From Louisville, Nashville, Cinci, Cleveland, Pitt, you name it, they have marinas. They have water culture. And it is an amenity we cannot fake, despite our river city image.
Our geographic position in the center of the country and on 2 major waterways is a strength. No one said it wasn't.
Tell someone from Minnesota our winter is harsh and see what they say
#2 - they'll probably say the Land of 10000 Lakes is worth suffering through the winter for.
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we have a river thats been known to raise like 20 feet in 24 hours....you aint getting anything downtown unless its on a barge.
I'm from Minnesota. The summers here are not near as brutal as the 6-7 months of winter I experienced growing up. Not even close.CG91 wrote: ↑Dec 09, 2022I mean yeah sure more “water culture” would be nice. I’d love to see the riverfront around downtown be developed and have a marina with recreational boats all around. But that doesn’t mean STL has bad geography. And the winter is fine. It’s basically 2 months long and snows once or twice. Tell someone from Minnesota our winter is harsh and see what they sayTheWayoftheArch_V2.0 wrote:Name them.CG91 wrote: ↑Dec 09, 2022This narrative is ridiculous. Plenty of cities with much worse geography than STL have no problems attracting people.
I posted this jokingly, given the other major obstacles facing our region. Like the SLU joke, obviously we need to state when we are being facetious or sarcastic. We can obviously do neither build a lake or change the climate. Unless Paul McKee say's so. (calm down, also a joke.)
That said, I love this city, but it's winter is harsh (Jan & Feb) it's summers are brutal. A large lake and water culture is a balm on the summer. From Louisville, Nashville, Cinci, Cleveland, Pitt, you name it, they have marinas. They have water culture. And it is an amenity we cannot fake, despite our river city image.
Our geographic position in the center of the country and on 2 major waterways is a strength. No one said it wasn't.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk