The preservation ordinance for St. Louis does require all demolitions of sites listed on the National Register of Historic Places to be reviewed by the Cultural Resources Office, and if necessary, the Preservation Board, unless it is an emergency demolition as declared by the Building Division.pdm_ad wrote: ↑Jun 27, 2022From PD article today:chriss752 wrote: ↑May 13, 2022Some multi-family housing. Likely to seek historic buildings designation to get HTCs. Means there will be no true alterations to the first floor, facade or anything else. So parking couldn’t be integrated into the base if it required a rebuild of the facade.MRNHS wrote: ↑May 13, 2022Was that all you were informed about? Any word on potential plans (or what they are considering)?
https://www.stltoday.com/business/local ... -top-story
Anyone know if our local law dictates otherwise?The designation is somewhat symbolic and doesn’t mean a property can’t be demolished or altered, unless local law dictates otherwise.
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^ i don't see the relevance of that in this case since its clear that this is being pushed by the new owner and not the City (in a bid to prevent it from being demolished)
Absolutely. No one proactively adds their building to the National Register so they can demolish it. This is clearly an effort to get historic tax credits in play. And that is all fine and good. Especially if it helps puts this building back in productive use. I was just answering the questions posed about whether demolition of listed sites in St. Louis is a trigger for review.
Haha well what is there really to discuss? Certainly nothing relating to the historic character of the building.
Board approves tax cut for St. Louis’ AT&T tower
https://www.stltoday.com/business/local ... the-latest
https://www.stltoday.com/business/local ... the-latest
SomeraRoad has yet to publicize its plans for the property, but its representatives told the Board of Equalization that it planned to do a mixed-use development with apartments. They said the project was likely to cost around $200 million and would need tax incentives to complete.
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Is this the closest we've gotten with a 909 Chestnut solution? 
I hope that they publish floor plans before anything else. I’m honestly interested to see how the apartments will be laid out because of how large the floor plates are. This might end up being the hardest redevelopment in town simply due to that.
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I know there is a long way to go, but I really want them to turn this into a signature tower. Obviously I'd like to see great things on the interior, but I really want this thing to be lit up like the Wells Fargo Tower in Minneapolis. With the way 909 has been dark for so long, some serious lighting on the outside could really add a nice touch to the skyline. If anything, it will be nice to see that building's windows lit up again with activity.
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they're 30,500 SF which is almost 3 times smaller than the 88,000SF Butler Brothers building floor plateschriss752 wrote: ↑Aug 16, 2022I hope that they publish floor plans before anything else. I’m honestly interested to see how the apartments will be laid out because of how large the floor plates are. This might end up being the hardest redevelopment in town simply due to that.
100 Kingshighway is 35,000-37,000SF
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I’m really excited for a $200 million dollar investment in this building but don’t expect exterior changes if they use HTC’s.DogtownBnR wrote:I know there is a long way to go, but I really want them to turn this into a signature tower. Obviously I'd like to see great things on the inside, but I really want this thing to be lit up like the Wells Fargo Tower in Minneapolis. With the way 909 has been dark for so long, some serious lighting on the outside could really add a nice touch to the skyline. If anything, it will be nice to see that building's windows lit up again with activity.
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It would be pretty epic if this building could finally be rehabbed -- and for $200 million!
I was personally hoping for an entire reclad of this building to something more shiny and glass, but perhaps that won't be in the cards for it.
If not, I hope they can do something to make the building more colorful and vibrant at night.
I was personally hoping for an entire reclad of this building to something more shiny and glass, but perhaps that won't be in the cards for it.
If not, I hope they can do something to make the building more colorful and vibrant at night.
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At the very least getting a bunch of potted trees and plants on all of the balconies would look great.
I posted this on the previous page a few days back:moorlander wrote: ↑Aug 16, 2022I’m really excited for a $200 million dollar investment in this building but don’t expect exterior changes if they use HTC’s.DogtownBnR wrote:I know there is a long way to go, but I really want them to turn this into a signature tower. Obviously I'd like to see great things on the inside, but I really want this thing to be lit up like the Wells Fargo Tower in Minneapolis. With the way 909 has been dark for so long, some serious lighting on the outside could really add a nice touch to the skyline. If anything, it will be nice to see that building's windows lit up again with activity.
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From PD article today:
https://www.stltoday.com/business/local ... -top-story
Anyone know if our local law dictates otherwise?The designation is somewhat symbolic and doesn’t mean a property can’t be demolished or altered, unless local law dictates otherwise.
^ I don't know the specifics, but I don't believe St. Louis has any laws on the books that offer full blown protections for something on the National Register. One example: The Cupples Warehouse District is on the NRHP and the city pulled down Cupples 7 anyway. I think our ordinances and historic districts essentially guarantee some protection and a hearing with the CRO and/or the PRB who would have the say on whether or not something listed historic can be taken down. Maybe Mr. Allen is floating around and can confirm, since I'm not 100% sure.
I don't think so. It's not in a local historic district where such regulations usually are.
Great! I would love to seem some exterior alterations take place, even if it's just additional lighting like Dogtown's example.
I think good exterior lighting would go a long, long way. Although some street level improvements would be nice.pdm_ad wrote: ↑Aug 16, 2022Great! I would love to seem some exterior alterations take place, even if it's just additional lighting like Dogtown's example.
Updated lighting would be great. But if they are successful in getting the historic designation and apply for historic tax credits (which seems to be the only way this gets done) the NPS will dictate what alterations can be done in keeping with its original "historic" appearance. So, I wouldn't expect much on the outside to change except maybe some lighting and new streetscape.pdm_ad wrote: ↑Aug 16, 2022Great! I would love to seem some exterior alterations take place, even if it's just additional lighting like Dogtown's example.
Edit: Here are the NPS standards and guidelines when using historic tax credits.
https://www.nps.gov/tps/standards/rehabilitation.htm
Nos. 9 and 10 seem to leave the door slightly ajar for alterations and new construction, but probably not to the extent some folks are imagining here. So, new glass curtain walls and that proposal from HOK to rebuild the street level spaces a few years back are probably not in the cards.
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The designation may be symbolic but it’s necessary to get historic tax credits. It is the use of the tax credits that will prohibit exterior alterations.pdm_ad wrote:I posted this on the previous page a few days back:moorlander wrote: ↑Aug 16, 2022I’m really excited for a $200 million dollar investment in this building but don’t expect exterior changes if they use HTC’s.DogtownBnR wrote:I know there is a long way to go, but I really want them to turn this into a signature tower. Obviously I'd like to see great things on the inside, but I really want this thing to be lit up like the Wells Fargo Tower in Minneapolis. With the way 909 has been dark for so long, some serious lighting on the outside could really add a nice touch to the skyline. If anything, it will be nice to see that building's windows lit up again with activity.
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From PD article today:
https://www.stltoday.com/business/local ... -top-story
Anyone know if our local law dictates otherwise?The designation is somewhat symbolic and doesn’t mean a property can’t be demolished or altered, unless local law dictates otherwise.
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^They might be able to get alterations approved, but that specific cost won't be applicable for the tax refund... the review crew right now is supposed to be very strict (from what I hear) in comparison to previous years, so that's probably a stretch.
Sq Ft doesn't matter so much as the maximum distance to the nearest window. Lucas Lofts and The Bogen, neither of which have any central atrium or lightwell, are both roughly 133' wide in their shorter dimension. 909 Chestnut is about the same, maybe a few feet wider. But it has a massive elevator core. (first level shown in link, upper floors have smaller distance between the elevators and exterior wall. Not sure how much of that core can be demo-ed). And there's way more elevators than an apartment building would need. Fortunately, despite the "this building is meant for a single tenant" statements that were always made without any explanation, this means there's plenty of elevator capacity for multiple uses. I'd love to see both apartments and one or two hotels. It would be cool to see multiple apartment developers brought in. Basically lease out 10+ floor blocks of the building to different developers and let those function as apartment complexes with their own amenities.dbInSouthCity wrote: ↑Aug 16, 2022they're 30,500 SF which is almost 3 times smaller than the 88,000SF Butler Brothers building floor plateschriss752 wrote: ↑Aug 16, 2022I hope that they publish floor plans before anything else. I’m honestly interested to see how the apartments will be laid out because of how large the floor plates are. This might end up being the hardest redevelopment in town simply due to that.
100 Kingshighway is 35,000-37,000SF
And if we're going to talk about floor plate sizes: Karl-Marx-Hof in Vienna is 289,00 sq ft per floor (rounded down from my quick napkin math) but you're never more than 21' from the nearest exterior wall.
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Historically it had quite a bit of exterior lighting at the top. (I believe a company I used to work for some of the architectural lighting. Was either that or the Southwestern Bell building. Was never clear on which, and by the time I signed on it was all in the past anyway.)
Why is the elevator core an issue when building apartments or hotel rooms in this building? Wouldn't, traditionally, you build efficiently from the center out? Same reason I never understood why apartments Millennium could have 'never worked' due to the layout (level of deterioration aside). Just have an ovular hallway from the elevators on each floor. Maybe I'm simple though.