3,766
Life MemberLife Member
3,766

PostMay 16, 2022#5051

This story just makes me even more angry that the St. Louis contingency settled. This appears to be a slam-dunk case. 

While we as a region would have had to be patient, the facts point to outright fraud by StanK and the NFL. I think the suit could have brought BILLIONS back to the region. I think this was a HUGE lost opportunity. I hope the STL Post digs up more dirt through their FOI requests.

Here is the Pro Football Talk take. Nothing new, but nice to see them covering it. 

https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2 ... -l-a-move/

PostMay 16, 2022#5052

Not to mention, if St. Louis was dead as an NFL market and could have NEVER gotten a team from the lawsuit, the Raiders never would have been considered for the STL market. 

To me, if the STL legal reps would have won the case and if we were awarded a huge amount, a team very well could have been floated. This article to me solidifies that theory. 

Moving the Raiders to St. Louis was something the NFL actually considered in 2014, per report - CBSSports.com

https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/movi ... er-report/

144
Junior MemberJunior Member
144

PostMay 16, 2022#5053

DogtownBnR wrote:
May 16, 2022
This story just makes me even more angry that the St. Louis contingency settled. This appears to be a slam-dunk case. 

While we as a region would have had to be patient, the facts point to outright fraud by StanK and the NFL. I think the suit could have brought BILLIONS back to the region. I think this was a HUGE lost opportunity. I hope the STL Post digs up more dirt through their FOI requests.

Here is the Pro Football Talk take. Nothing new, but nice to see them covering it. 

https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2 ... -l-a-move/
Blitz the money grabbing scumbag ruined it. 

sc4mayor
sc4mayor

PostMay 16, 2022#5054

^ If Blitz is a money grubbing scumbag (lol) why would he have settled?  If there were billions to be had, his payday would have been significantly larger with a verdict in the billions.

The idea that the city would have ended up with billions or a team after getting thrashed in a federal appeals court is laughable.

3,766
Life MemberLife Member
3,766

PostMay 16, 2022#5055

^^ I believe this was a combination of the City (Jones), County (Page) and the lawyers wanting to cash out and take the money and run. Obviously the mayor and county executive want to be in power while this cash is distributed, so they can direct as they see fit. Otherwise, they'd likely both be long gone when the region cashes in several years down the road. The NFL dangled a small carrot and they jumped. Now we have peanuts (all things considered) and no NFL team. I will say it again,.... The fact that the NFL threw out $790M proves they thought we had a great case and would likely win. That's no chump change and they knew what their exposure was in this case. The short-sighted local decision-makers jumped WAY too early. If you were going settle, settle on the courthouse steps or closer to trial, not months before! 

This is (of course) my theory and I'm sticking with it! 

PostMay 16, 2022#5056

sc4mayor wrote:
May 16, 2022
^ If Blitz is a money grubbing scumbag (lol) why would he have settled?  If there were billions to be had, his payday would have been significantly larger with a verdict in the billions.

The idea that the city would have ended up with billions or a team after getting thrashed in a federal appeals court is laughable.
Guaranteed money today, is better than waiting years with SOME uncertainty, in the eyes of many a lawyer. Again, this was a group decision and they bit on the carrot to get paid today. Hell, Blitz is an older gentleman. I am sure his piece of the payout is enough for him to ride off into the sunset. I'm sure he is just fine with his cut and was VERY comfortable before this case was settled. 

sc4mayor
sc4mayor

PostMay 16, 2022#5057

ALOT of uncertainty, actually.

Appeal courts regularly, drastically reduce large jury awards.  Plus, other NFL cases regarding relocations (particularly in Oakland) were tossed by federal courts.  We had home field advantage up front and would have had a favorable jury.  We would not have that those advantages on appeal or in a federal court.

3,766
Life MemberLife Member
3,766

PostMay 16, 2022#5058

^ BUT what if that award was $3-5B? They can reduce it and STL still gets way more than $790M. Some high end exposure calculations had an award as high as $10B. 

Just for the record, I was a bigger advocate for meeting on the courthouse steps for at least $1B. The NFL can say all that they want in negotiations (this is our final offer) but in a case like this, going up to $1B or a bit more would have been in their best interest considering their exposure. From the STL perspective, $1B just looks so much better and tells the world the NFL did us wrong and got slapped with a billion$ settlement. 

sc4mayor
sc4mayor

PostMay 16, 2022#5059

It's always fun to play the what if game, but that's pointless.  You're just going to keep coming up with scenarios that upset yourself.

In 2018 a St. Louis jury awarded 22 women $4.7 billion in combined damages against Johnson & Johnson over their talc products causing ovarian cancer.  An appeals court reduced it to $2 billion after two women were removed from the suit, leaving 20 remaining plaintiffs.  A different appeals court in NJ simply struck down a 9 figure verdict against J&J in 2021.

The $10 billion predictions were so out of the realm of possibility that I'm not sure how anyone actually took them seriously.

2,929
Life MemberLife Member
2,929

PostMay 16, 2022#5060

IMHO The Plaintiffs settled because a bird in the hand is worth two in the bush. 

I would have relished the chance of having StanK and the other bastards take the stand and have to sweat it all out in front of a jury, recognizing that part of this is from an emotional desire of mine for justice for STL and rageful anger at them. Hell, I was cheering on the potential for a massive suit that could have brought the whole League to its knees. Then again, doing so would have been putting a whole lot of risk in play, from adverse appellate rulings to hardcore political risks. Indeed, I'd say the emergence of certain politicians demanding they be part of the process prior to trial really put the icing on the cake of the need for settlement when they made that call. 

Honestly, I'm not sure I'd be happy with anything of a settlement, or judgment, with less than StanK, Kevin Demoff, Goodell, et.al. being put into stockades in the middle of Kiener Plaza so people could throw rotten garbage at them. That was never going to happen. Instead, I want Vindication of our City, our Region, our Market. We got some of that (plus $790BB), and this new report will make the story known all over. Maybe, just maybe, we'll see some Federal prosecution for interstate commerce violations owing to deliberate, premeditated fraud. If they committed a prosecutable Federal crime, I'd love to see them charged and brought before the courts. 

@sc4mayor Props to you being right that the Cincinnati Bengals' owner, Michael Brown, was a STL advocate the entire way through. Honestly, the poetic irony that the one League owner who never wavered being an advocate for STL shares the name "Mike Brown". You can't write stuff like that. Which is another reason why I'm looking forward to books being written on all this mess. 

3,766
Life MemberLife Member
3,766

PostMay 16, 2022#5061

sc4mayor wrote:
May 16, 2022
It's always fun to play the what if game, but that's pointless.  You're just going to keep coming up with scenarios that upset yourself.

In 2018 a St. Louis jury awarded 22 women $4.7 billion in combined damages against Johnson & Johnson over their talc products causing ovarian cancer.  An appeals court reduced it to $2 billion after two women were removed from the suit, leaving 20 remaining plaintiffs.  A different appeals court in NJ simply struck down a 9 figure verdict against J&J in 2021.

The $10 billion predictions were so out of the realm of possibility that I'm not sure how anyone actually took them seriously.
I agree, no point in looking back, but it is hard not to think about it when what little money we get will likely be squandered and we'll have nothing to show for as a region. 

That being said, the legal analysis by Conduct Detrimental and Dan Wallach deserve some consideration. He covered this story unbelievably. With this information uncovered, I think it shows that STL had a great case. 

7,806
Life MemberLife Member
7,806

PostMay 16, 2022#5062

DogtownBnR wrote:
May 16, 2022
sc4mayor wrote:
May 16, 2022
It's always fun to play the what if game, but that's pointless.  You're just going to keep coming up with scenarios that upset yourself.

In 2018 a St. Louis jury awarded 22 women $4.7 billion in combined damages against Johnson & Johnson over their talc products causing ovarian cancer.  An appeals court reduced it to $2 billion after two women were removed from the suit, leaving 20 remaining plaintiffs.  A different appeals court in NJ simply struck down a 9 figure verdict against J&J in 2021.

The $10 billion predictions were so out of the realm of possibility that I'm not sure how anyone actually took them seriously.
I agree, no point in looking back, but it is hard not to think about it when what little money we get will likely be squandered and we'll have nothing to show for as a region
St. Louis has a new soccer stadium built with entirely private money. The Cardinals aren't asking for anything. The Blues got $100 million but we have a building that should be safe for 10-20 years in producing 80 to 100 events a year.

We're out of an abusive relationship and we got a decent parting settlement out of it. More than San Diego, Oakland and other cities that have lost pro teams have gotten.

If Nashville, Buffalo etc want to spend billions of tax dollars on stadiums used 11 days a year: go ahead.

5,705
Life MemberLife Member
5,705

PostMay 17, 2022#5063

^ Well stated.   

That being said, does anyone know if any RSA language got changed in the most recent legislative session.  I believe their was an attempt to incorporate changes such that RSA portion of the settlement funds could go towards reimbursement of dollars expended, $18 million, in the NFL stadium effort to keep Rams as well as language spelling out what the settlement funds could be committed too?   

7,806
Life MemberLife Member
7,806

PostJun 17, 2022#5064

Fair and transparent? bullsh*t. Don't tell me when this is all done the money won't all be gone in to the pockets of politicians.

https://www.stltoday.com/news/local/gov ... r_stltoday

Rams settlement negotiations likely to stretch on for months

ST. LOUIS — Negotiations over splitting the $790 million from the Rams settlement appear likely to stretch on long enough that one of the parties wants to move the money into investments with higher returns.

St. Louis, St. Louis County and the Regional Convention and Sports Complex Authority, which owns The Dome at America’s Center where the Rams played, have been haggling for over six months on how to split up the $790 million the league and team agreed to pay to settle a 2017 lawsuit over their move to Los Angeles.

After attorney fees, there’s some $500 million from the settlement that the city, county and dome authority — known as the RSA — need to divvy up. But there’s been little information released publicly about the progress of those negotiations since the settlement was announced in November.

The information that trickled out Wednesday indicated an agreement wasn’t close. The RSA board unanimously approved a motion at its Wednesday board meeting urging the city and county to agree to move the money to new investment funds while negotiations play out.

“With today’s rates, it’s $15 million a year we’re missing out on, versus $2 million with where the money is now,” RSA member Dave Spence said. “That is too obvious of a move and it doesn’t affect anything in negotiations. And in the current rate environment, we would not be doing our fiduciary responsibility. … I would love to see the person that says don’t do it in the city or the county.”

That money could be earning higher returns for a while. The Rev. Earl Nance Jr., who recently became chairman of the RSA after Gov. Mike Parson replaced longtime chair Jim Shrewsbury, said it “might” be months more before the three parties reach agreement.

“Hopefully sooner,” Nance said. “Something might break.”

Asked if he thought it might be split in thirds among the three parties, Nance replied: “I think that’s fair, but that’s not what’s happening.”

Former Kansas City Mayor Sly James, who runs a consulting and mediation firm, is apparently facilitating talks between the three parties. During the meeting, Nance said he thought the board should “work with Sly James” and “go back into negotiations without delay.”

For the RSA, the clock is ticking. Money the entity has used to pay its three-person staff and other operating expenses — largely generated through interest from a bond reserve account held on the recently-retired Dome debt — is running out.

Marty Finn, RSA assistant executive director, said there’s enough money to pay expenses through this year. But it’s counting on the settlement money to continue operating, and if negotiations go into next year “I don’t think we’ll make it through the remaining calendar year,” he said.

The RSA, Nance said, needs to “take responsibility for fighting for the amount of funds that we know we need to continue running this Dome and for the Dome to exist.”

Erv Switzer, a Greensfelder attorney who is representing the RSA in negotiations with the city and county, declined to comment on the negotiations.

Doug Moore, a spokesman for St. Louis County Executive Sam Page, said it made sense to move the money into higher-earning securities during negotiations. But he said it wouldn’t be “appropriate to comment while the mediation process is ongoing.”

Nick Dunne, a spokesman for Mayor Tishaura O. Jones, said in a statement that the city couldn’t discuss the negotiations but that any funds the city gets “must be invested responsibly with an eye towards our children and grandchildren — not the next election cycle.”

The 11-member board is made up of five state appointees and three each from the city and county — the three governments that financed construction of the Dome when the Rams moved here from Los Angeles in 1995. Nance is a city appointee whose term expired just last month.

Three of Parson’s five appointees on Wednesday signaled support for a resolution commission member Joe Blanner proposed. It called for “actions to ensure that future discussions and processes regarding the allocation and use of Settlement Funds ... be conducted in an open and transparent manner while recognizing that some level of confidentiality in negotiations can sometimes make negotiations more effective.”

The resolution also called for using the funds “in a way that creates a long-lasting, significant economic impact on the City and County.”

Nance said the board should heed advice from its counsel and not pass the resolution, saying that “we have no business telling the city and the county what to do with their share of the money.”

Blanner said the resolution was “merely a statement of purpose and intent.”

“To commit ourselves to openness and transparency is a good idea,” he said. “No one is trying to cast any negative light at the process. … No one is trying to cast any negative light at any elected or appointed officials.”

Spence asked Switzer about his opinion that the resolution could be “opening us up to unnecessary exposure.” Switzer said he didn’t want to discuss his legal opinion in an open meeting.

The board tabled the resolution.

Spence and Blanner both supported language circulated late in the Missouri legislative session that would have expanded the RSA’s powers and required a two-thirds vote for the RSA to spend the settlement money. The legislation didn’t pass.

13K
Life MemberLife Member
13K

PostSep 15, 2022#5065

Stl Today - Lack of action on Rams settlement is costing millions of dollars, Dome authority says

https://www.stltoday.com/news/local/gov ... 634d1.html

sc4mayor
sc4mayor

PostSep 15, 2022#5066

Embarrassing. Just leaving money on the table.

Having said that I know former KC mayor Sly James personally and he’s a great guy. He needs to bring back some of his chutzpah from his mayor days and end this idiotic standoff.

5,705
Life MemberLife Member
5,705

PostSep 15, 2022#5067

quincunx wrote:
Sep 15, 2022
Stl Today - Lack of action on Rams settlement is costing millions of dollars, Dome authority says

https://www.stltoday.com/news/local/gov ... 634d1.html
Thanks for posting.   I guess if they move settlement funds into a higher earning bracket does that also take off some of the pressure to finalize an agreement.  Sometimes deadlines and pressures are good to finalize any project.   
I found the tidbit about dome operating costs and current agreement coming to an end in 2024 interesting & probably a big stumbling block to an agreement.   I can only assume & speculate that the state and county want to set aside a chunk of the settlement to fund dome operations for the next 20 to 25 years, or say $100 million, instead of making the annual.   From that thought, I can also see the state and county looking at the funds from an endowment perspective where city might see needs and have State & County contribute the $3 million a year.   
"The RSA needs money to maintain the Dome and pay for capital improvements. It gets $4 million a year, half from the state and $1 million each from the city and county. But that agreement expires in 2024, and the settlement is seen as a way to continue maintaining the Dome for events and conventions in the coming years." 
From an endowment perspective, A 2% return on full settlement funds gets you around $10 million; say $4 mil to dome annual costs, $4 mil toward convention bonds or pay out on new bonds (say a north county sports project) and anything over goes back into the settlement funds.   Of course, the financial guys currently managing the settlement funds are pushing for the higher return, higher risk because they will also see a bigger payout.  

2,037
Life MemberLife Member
2,037

PostSep 18, 2022#5068

The fact that the negotiations over how to split the money have been totally behind closed doors with little to no public scrutiny is not a good sign.

1,609
Totally AddictedTotally Addicted
1,609

PostSep 21, 2022#5069

Not sure if you had seen this from August, but think it implies that negotiations are at an impasse. 

City is said to seek more than two-thirds of $513M Rams settlement
https://www.ksdk.com/article/news/local ... 3c1cffeca5

City wants 2/3s, and Dome Authority wants enough to fund itself for the foreseeable future.  Can only imagine the county is in the corner saying "even shares?"

2,056
Life MemberLife Member
2,056

PostSep 21, 2022#5070

Hard to disagree with the city wanting more considering the effort made... will this go to some sort of arbitration?

1,792
Never Logs OffNever Logs Off
1,792

PostSep 21, 2022#5071

do you mean the effort to keep the rams?  or the effort to pursue restitution?

sc4mayor
sc4mayor

PostSep 21, 2022#5072

^ I would imagine he means attempting to keep the Rams.  St. Louis County was a party to the lawsuit, but if I'm not mistaken they really had no interest in helping out.  I believe the RSA actually spent the money planning the stadium and the City lost out on tax revenues, game day revenues, etc.  The County comparatively lost nothing.  Still, I'd be fine with an even-ish split.

Give $113 million to the RSA to pay off their planning debts and create a maintenance fund for the dome.  Take the other $400 million and split it evenly between the City and County.  Then call it day.  I really see no reason for the RSA to end up with the biggest chunk of money.

5,705
Life MemberLife Member
5,705

PostSep 26, 2022#5073

sc4mayor wrote:
Sep 21, 2022
Give $113 million to the RSA to pay off their planning debts and create a maintenance fund for the dome.  Take the other $400 million and split it evenly between the City and County.  Then call it day.  I really see no reason for the RSA to end up with the biggest chunk of money.
Almost makes too much sense for the politic leadership but I think it is fair as you get considering that some of the funds should go to whatever debts were incurred in planning/trying to build a new stadium as well as something in the bank to finance the next 20 years of dome maintenance.  

 Yeah, you could argue that city should get more for then the county as I speculate that is Mayor Jones position.  But at what point is having access no funds maybe 5, 10 or 15 years out or right when their might be a recession to tame inflation does matter, risking destroying much needed consensus on other things between the two govt bodies say the next phase of convention expansion and or simply it goes to a judge who does a three way split.  What Sc4mayor makes sense and do think it is best interest of City & County to limit RSA take even if it means a split of the remaining funds.

13K
Life MemberLife Member
13K

PostOct 15, 2022#5074

StlToday - Jones, Page agree to move Rams money to higher-yielding investments

https://www.stltoday.com/news/local/gov ... 17ea1.html

9,559
Life MemberLife Member
9,559

PostOct 15, 2022#5075

I’d say let this sit for 5 years and collect $100m extra

Read more posts (427 remaining)