^In some ways it's easier to get in and out of than Laclede's Landing right now. The elevated section of 55 is an issue, but it doesn't block any streets at all. They go under it uninterupted. And the Poplar Street bridge is so far up into space you barely even notice it when you go under it. The arch grounds are sort of set up to face the other way, since that's where the garage used to be and that's where the Metrolink stop is, which does make it a bit of a hike. But . . . meh, that's still where I used to park when I was going to the arch and didn't want to pay for parking. It's not that terrible. Used to be a half mile to get you in the door. Now it's maybe three quarters. The biggest problem might be that it's just old and decayed. It's not well lit under the bridges. But in the I think Shadrach brought up Steelcote because it's a comparably decayed and isolated industrial setting, and yet redevelopments seems to be working. Might be a better comparison. It's not quite as well connected by foot or transit as the Landing, but it's sure easier to drive in via Chouteau than Washington. And I'd say it's pretty comparable to Steelcote, so I think there's hope.
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(I would move this back to its own thread that I started because it’s a specific project proposal, this thread was a lot of what if and nothing ever official)
^ Thanks for posting DB
I get the desire for these development districts but I got two thoughts when DB posted Gateway South
1) Does the city really need another mixed use development districts when it already has three in place that are far from being fully developed whether it be CORTEX, the mid town SLU district and believe you also have NOW Innovation District. Don't think they are all the same but seem to be falling into the same desired type of development Not only that, got some great potential of infill projects scattered throughout as well when you start considering what has been proposed but hasn't broken ground let alone what you can still do nearby in Soulard and Lafayette Park on to top wet downtown.
and or
2) Considering the area proposed by GSW also falls into some traditional industrial area wouldn't be nice to see a industry, light industry, manufacturing district be proposed. Something really specific to advanced manufacturing, skill based job. Can't help to think that between CHIPs Act and fothcoming Inflation reduction act really puts a barge load of money, pun intended, back into on shoring manufacturing. I just think the city would benefit by taking the same approach for building up some of these areas with apartments, retail and entertainment to go after skilled based jobs, whether a small wood working guy needed to relocate in the city but maybe looking to expand to major manufacturer looking for a place to land
I get the desire for these development districts but I got two thoughts when DB posted Gateway South
1) Does the city really need another mixed use development districts when it already has three in place that are far from being fully developed whether it be CORTEX, the mid town SLU district and believe you also have NOW Innovation District. Don't think they are all the same but seem to be falling into the same desired type of development Not only that, got some great potential of infill projects scattered throughout as well when you start considering what has been proposed but hasn't broken ground let alone what you can still do nearby in Soulard and Lafayette Park on to top wet downtown.
and or
2) Considering the area proposed by GSW also falls into some traditional industrial area wouldn't be nice to see a industry, light industry, manufacturing district be proposed. Something really specific to advanced manufacturing, skill based job. Can't help to think that between CHIPs Act and fothcoming Inflation reduction act really puts a barge load of money, pun intended, back into on shoring manufacturing. I just think the city would benefit by taking the same approach for building up some of these areas with apartments, retail and entertainment to go after skilled based jobs, whether a small wood working guy needed to relocate in the city but maybe looking to expand to major manufacturer looking for a place to land
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https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/JDS_Development_Group
This appears to be a actual entity behind the project.
This appears to be a actual entity behind the project.
Very exciting. Would love to see it come to fruition. This is a prime location and should be our version of the South Loop in Chicago. I think we all want to see the Arch be surrounded by vibrant areas and build up downtown and this would very much help with that.
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Yep. It’s all coming together beautifully. Didn’t realize they increased the scope so much.
Thanks Gerry Connolly for finding the PA agenda and other sleuths finding the JDS connection.
JDS has done some big stuff
https://jdsdevelopment.com/
NextSTL - $1.2B Gateway South Project planned at Chouteau's Landing/Kosciusko
https://nextstl.com/2022/08/1-2b-gatewa ... kosciusko/
JDS has done some big stuff
https://jdsdevelopment.com/
NextSTL - $1.2B Gateway South Project planned at Chouteau's Landing/Kosciusko
https://nextstl.com/2022/08/1-2b-gatewa ... kosciusko/
The employees of Good Developments used to work at JDS, but they aren’t involved, at least anymore. They used to be though.
https://good-developments.com/
https://good-developments.com/
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I have no idea what this will look like, but I already know it is going to dramatically change the experience of taking Amtrak into St. Louis.
And the view coming over the bridge from Illinois.RockChalkSTL wrote: ↑Aug 09, 2022I have no idea what this will look like, but I already know it is going to dramatically change the experience of taking Amtrak into St. Louis.
Being so close to the Arch, Busch Stadium and Soulard this has the potential to be a huge hit. Hoping and praying this happens.
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I can't wait to see the Cruden Martin complex finally get redeveloped. Over 500,000 sqft. of space (although I'm sure building #5 isn't salvageable).
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Some random thoughts....
This development will feature a fair bit of green space, would it not?
I want to know how they plan to bridge "Gateway South" to the Arch grounds. The highway makes it harder than it should be.
I hope we see a healthy mix of modern and historic within the development.
Laclede's Landing, with Wash Ave and the casino and convention center and Metrolink station and better connection to the Arch grounds, etc., is somehow lagging behind a spot with none of those amenities.
How many other areas in St. Louis can you watch trains pass by so closely? And on elevated tracks?
It would be wonderful if a walkway could somehow be forged between I-64 and Busch III's southern side. Probably not, I assume, but I think it would cut a few minutes out of walking commutes to and from the Stadium Metrolink station, the closest to the neighborhood.
This development will feature a fair bit of green space, would it not?
I want to know how they plan to bridge "Gateway South" to the Arch grounds. The highway makes it harder than it should be.
I hope we see a healthy mix of modern and historic within the development.
Laclede's Landing, with Wash Ave and the casino and convention center and Metrolink station and better connection to the Arch grounds, etc., is somehow lagging behind a spot with none of those amenities.
How many other areas in St. Louis can you watch trains pass by so closely? And on elevated tracks?
It would be wonderful if a walkway could somehow be forged between I-64 and Busch III's southern side. Probably not, I assume, but I think it would cut a few minutes out of walking commutes to and from the Stadium Metrolink station, the closest to the neighborhood.
I think a good chunk of that $1.2 billion development cost will go towards infrastructure updates as well as cleaning up contaminated land and just making it easier to develop. The fact that they're extending the development area way further south is a bit surprising and that's where a ton of cleanup money will surely be spent.
Based on what I've heard, a good chunk of the project will resemble Dumbo in NYC a bit.
Based on what I've heard, a good chunk of the project will resemble Dumbo in NYC a bit.
This seems cool but honestly I've seen too many big construction projects proposed then cancelled or pared down or even make the targeted area worse (Mckee) to get that excited about this. As far as I'm concerned, the bigger and flashier the project, the more difficult it's going to be to make happen and like, I'll believe it when I see it. Hopefully they won't landbank crumbling buildings to the point of collapse at the very least.
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Hopefully some of the infrastructure improvements include the area under the 44 overpass. At minimum it needs interesting lighting and landscaping, but IMO build some courts basketball, pickleball, and "indoor" soccer. Fill it up with activity and the highway is no longer a barrier between the neighborhoods. I would also accept tearing down the highway all together 
I think a lot of the buildings there have already been land-banked and crumbling.PeterXCV wrote: ↑Aug 10, 2022This seems cool but honestly I've seen too many big construction projects proposed then cancelled or pared down or even make the targeted area worse (Mckee) to get that excited about this. As far as I'm concerned, the bigger and flashier the project, the more difficult it's going to be to make happen and like, I'll believe it when I see it. Hopefully they won't landbank crumbling buildings to the point of collapse at the very least.
Yes, please. I wish so much that this be considered aside from amongst ourselves.
I don't want to get my hopes up too much, either, but maybe it's a good sign the development area is now bigger than Chris previously thought/knew? One way or another, something has to happen here eventually...right? It's just too visible and full of potentially to continue on much longer as-is.
Those employees:chriss752 wrote: ↑Aug 09, 2022The employees of Good Developments used to work at JDS, but they aren’t involved, at least anymore. They used to be though.
https://good-developments.com/
https://www.linkedin.com/search/results ... CH&sid=yIU
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Alec Jadacki, CPAView Alec Jadacki, CPA’S profile
• 3rd+3rd+ degree connection
Good Developments Group
Philadelphia, PA
John MazzeoView John Mazzeo’s profile
• 3rd+3rd+ degree connection
Partner, Construction and Design at Good Developments Group
New York, NY
Amanda GarrettView Amanda Garrett’s profile
• 3rd+3rd+ degree connection
Partner, Design & Construction at Good Developments Group // Former Design Director at JDS Development Group
Greater Charlottesville Area
- • 3rd+3rd+ degree connectionTop-Yard.comNew York, NYMessage
Nicki AdlerView Nicki Adler’s profile
Greg GleicherView Greg Gleicher’s profile
• 3rd+3rd+ degree connection
Founder at Good Developments Group
New York, NY
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Hard to imagine this project getting going as long as the spaghetti of railroads run through there. TO me these are a lot more of an impediment than I 64 which imposing but don't actually block much access to the Arch grounds.
I could imagine a couple new flyovers that connect the Macarthur Bridge track to the N/S tracks to retire and potentially repurpose for pedestrians the other flyovers north of Cedar St. That would help a lot but with the grade changes and minimum turn radiuses i am NOT entirely sure its actually feasible.
Then there is the question of the MacArthur Bridge itself. How long before it is retired, and if retired does ANY of the current rail infrustructure make any sense at all. Including the flyovers, and switching yard on Chouteau's pond.
I could imagine a couple new flyovers that connect the Macarthur Bridge track to the N/S tracks to retire and potentially repurpose for pedestrians the other flyovers north of Cedar St. That would help a lot but with the grade changes and minimum turn radiuses i am NOT entirely sure its actually feasible.
Then there is the question of the MacArthur Bridge itself. How long before it is retired, and if retired does ANY of the current rail infrustructure make any sense at all. Including the flyovers, and switching yard on Chouteau's pond.
There's a nearly $100 million project underway right now rebuilding the Missouri rail approach and removing the last of the road approach structure to the MacArthur Bridge right now. It's not going anywhere for another 100 years.STLEnginerd wrote: ↑Aug 10, 2022Then there is the question of the MacArthur Bridge itself. How long before it is retired, and if retired does ANY of the current rail infrustructure make any sense at all. Including the flyovers, and switching yard on Chouteau's pond.
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I don’t see the rail lines being an issue. There are 4 large swath of land to operate in
