urbanSTL

Looking great. Is this privately funded or is this just a plan to seek funding?

They have a whole list of incentives that they would like. In my opinion, this kind of proposal is exactly what you give incentives out for. 

It seems they want to start with manufacturing first, so residential and entertainment may be attached to a second or third phase. 

One can only hope that their seven-year timeline is going to work out and that we won't see later phases cut as we've seen at Centene in Clayton. 

Here are the high quality renderings sent to be by the developer. Notice the little townhouse style buildings on Chouteau.

STLEnginerd wrote: ↑

Aug 11, 2022

If we consider that the 'tangle' is vital and untouchable, then i strongly posit that we should just expect to maintain the status quo in that part of downtown.

I don't think it's untouchable specifically, but the role is vital. So if you touch it you have to replace it somewhere else, as you suggest with your multi-billion dollar move. In fact, that's basically what the railroads are doing: They're replacing all of it and moving it a few feet to the side. (And I think all told it's probably costing them a billion or more just to do that. Slowly. Over decades.) I suspect your budget is overly optimistic, but if you add enough money it would certainly be possible. On the other hand, I'm not at all sure the current developers can pull of what they're envisioning either. I certainly hope they can, but I'm not going to bet the farm on it. That said . . . oh my is it pretty! (Especially the heavy industrial parts. With the cranes, trains, and containers.)

I'm really thankful that they're looking to start this project by the end of this year/early next year, even if it's just revamping the infrastructure. It also looks like they're going to replace part of the flood wall with a grassy levee? Seems like a positive way to connect the neighborhood to the river. 

Ooh, looking at the high-res render it really is a neat idea. They solve the Arch connection problem by closing Poplar street and adding fill to gently bring the north end of the site to the level of the Arch grounds. Fairly tidy. And that street is so little used I suspect no one will even miss it. The donut on top of the concrete tower is creative, and could be a nice location for a restaurant. The round pavilion someone thought might be an oil tank is actually pretty. It's all very ambitious and speculative, but I like it and it connects well to the Arch, which is an impressive feat. The container on barge business might just be a fantasy that the architect threw in with the render. (Like "Bell 2 Center" or some of the other twinzy towers.) Anyway . . . I like it! Not sure it's real, but I like it.

Link to the presentation with videos.

https://drive.google.com/drive/mobile/f ... 1GC8UsThWH

Looks like they intend to make the remnants of the automobile deck of the MacArthur into a linear park. Anyone have a guess as to what's at the end of the U-shaped walkway that goes out into the river?

NextSTL - Gateway South Plan more details, Port Authority begins discussions

https://nextstl.com/2022/08/gateway-sou ... scussions/

Why do I read the comments section when the news outlets posts this on their social media? Some of them I find hilarious, and some I get pissed off. Ugh.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

How can these people complain about the city being a "deserted wasteland" under a post about a project that will help the entire region?

Okay, I'm impressed. They've got big plans that are a heck of a heavy lift, but that really does sound like a great use for the area utilizing what's there now very well indeed and incorporating it into something better. If they want to ship in components and assemble them on site, that explains the wharf. And that probably is exactly the best place for it inside city limits, since it will have rail access as good as or better than more or less anywhere else in town. (Direct access to UP, TRRA, and FTRL, and via TRRA to every railroad in North America.) The land might well be dirt cheap right now. There's real potential for serious tax credits you wouldn't easily get everywhere. I think it's already caught the attention of most or all of the major politicians. It might well capitalize on the American Patriot line and their plans. This sounds like a winner . . . to this composer and transportation fan who seemingly lives with a high functioning economist. (I'm worried I'm going to begin understanding this stuff GC says.)

completed 2030 hmmm

I wonder how much of this project's future hinges on the success of another -- American Patriot Holdings LLC's shipping containers. 

From the overhead view, I believe I see St. Mary of Victories Church as a white building meaning it will be preserved as is.  Happy to see that.

^ i take that as building things at Gateway South and then assembling the building wherever is its final location.

chriss752 wrote: ↑

Aug 11, 2022

Here are the high quality renderings sent to be by the developer. Notice the little townhouse style buildings on Chouteau.
Gateway South.jpgGateway South 2.jpg

I know I'm picking waaay too hard at what are surely aspirational renderings, but I happened to notice that this rendering has replaced the south Archgrounds floodwall with an earthen berm:



It also appears the easternmost rail line (the one running north-south parallel to the river) is removed here. I see the rail line from the south bending to the west (you can see a train set on that track on the left of my crop), and the curved rail bridge from the west bending north into the Archgrounds tunnel is there too if you look closely. But the one that shoots due north? It appears to be a walking path in this image.

Logistical questions from the rail line deletion aside, I love the idea of a walking path between the Archgrounds an activated Chouteau's landing. I wonder if they're working with the NPS to make changes to the park proper? Or if this is just wishful thinking?

Also: Is that a beach barge?!?

-RBB

I wouldn't overthink or dig too deep into the details here.  It's a conceptual rendering to build up excitement and hopefully lead to some partnerships, financing or political support for the project.  I'd bet $1 that 70%+ of the buildings and projects shown are either scrapped or completely value engineered to looks differently than what's presented. 

Also, as always, this is a good read as to why renderings use the same trends and overbuilt / unrealistic deliverables: https://www.archpaper.com/2014/07/from-fireworks-to-kayaks-step-inside-the-well-produced-world-of-renderings/

Also,

[+] Spoiler

renderings are basically the Rick Rolling of development. Show one thing at the very beginning to drive interest, but know you're going to give people something totally different once they've committed.

^I think all the lines are in the rendering, they're just obscured by buildings in places. You can see them here and there in the shot. I've marked them out in red (for the TRRA) and yellow (for UP) with solid lines where you can see them and dashed lines where you can't.



I may go back and make it more obvious, since even with the markings they're a little hard to pick out from the clutter. But they're there. I suppose it's even possible they plan to put them in a tunnel through the berm, which is more or less what happened with the Arch. (They didn't really move the line much if any at all. They just built up a berm where it had been, put it on the berm, and then dropped a cap over it.)

I definitely believe this will be scaled back a bit, but it's still fun to see an ambitious vision presented. I specifically think we'll see the residential/northern towers shrunk a bit. The renderings already show some slight variation. Take for example the white buildings in Chouteau's Landing, they're shown as mass-timber in the 2nd Street rendering. Or take the gray, townhouse-style buildings on Chouteau, they're shown as a warm brown color in this rendering looking east from 4th Street at Chouteau*.

*- No agreement has been made to acquire that land yet from the current owner. I know them really well and this does not seem possible right now. The little parking lot that's there as well isn't even wide enough for the new buildings and trail shown here. If it were condensed, maybe. But the TRRA is supposed to remove that unused car bridge portion from that property soon. It's the last little bit they have to remove from this side of the bridge (they finished removing the stuff west of 4th and east of the highway). 

It really seems the manufacturing side of this project is far more important to the developers than the residential or entertainment portions. 

Even if that's all this area would become, I think that would be a massive win for the city and the region. 

It's far from certain that it will become even that, but it is fun to dream and hope that this is going to be the start of something big. 

STLEnginerd wrote: ↑

Aug 12, 2022

dbInSouthCity wrote: ↑

Aug 12, 2022

^ i take that as building things at Gateway South and then assembling the building wherever is its final location.

Sure but who is doing it?  I get there are no (and wouldn't expect) commitments from 'construction manufacturing companies' at this stage.  I was just asking can anyone think of a few which might represent the type of businesses this is theoretically supposed to attract.  My sense is  Alberici or Clayco wouldn't fall into this description as i didn't think they actually owned the offsite fabrication.  Growing the concept completely organically would be really tough.
Cortex did some but they also pulled in some heavyweight interest like Microsoft.  Plus local institutional interest like BJC, WashU, StLCoP etc.

I was getting the impression they wanted to do it themselves. Sounded like they had a startup in mind. They mention using Boeing tech for it in the PowerPoint Moorlander linked. Seems like a Butler Building type thing on steroids. (Meaning the prefab operation out of KC, not the former dime store warehouse in St. Louis.)

Wish they saved the vehicle deck on the MacArthur Bridge.A bike/PED reuse would have been an excellent compliment to this development.