Seattle is definitely out our league, but I don't see how Vegas can realistically support all these teams long term. I know they have a big tourism economy, but is the corporate and civic support really there?
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The Lambert thread finally got its international to continental Europe. Good things can happen!
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Ross Chaifetz is Richard A's son, right? (They're both at the top of Chaifetz group, so at the very least they're comfortable working together. And surely related somehow.) The elder Chaifetz always struck me as the guy for the job. He's tried to buy teams before, down to and including the Rams, apparently, before Stanky Enough Kranky snapped them up. He had 300M in a bid to buy the Marlins, if Wiki is to be believed, before he walked over disagreements with Jeeter. And also looked at the Milwaukee Bucks. I've always wanted to know if Matt Chaifetz of Countour Air is related to them. Anyway . . . never say never. Is it likely? Eh, probably not. But it's a danged nice dream.
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I am here to answer the topic question; no.
See you in 6 months to do it again
See you in 6 months to do it again
Yup, when someone goes “But…(insert reason here).”dbInSouthCity wrote: ↑Jul 13, 2022I am here to answer the topic question; no.
See you in 6 months to do it again
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But what if it could though?dbInSouthCity wrote: ↑Jul 13, 2022I am here to answer the topic question; no.
See you in 6 months to do it again
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Yes, Ross is Richard's son. He also has a daughter.symphonicpoet wrote: ↑Jul 12, 2022Ross Chaifetz is Richard A's son, right? (They're both at the top of Chaifetz group, so at the very least they're comfortable working together. And surely related somehow.) The elder Chaifetz always struck me as the guy for the job. He's tried to buy teams before, down to and including the Rams, apparently, before Stanky Enough Kranky snapped them up. He had 300M in a bid to buy the Marlins, if Wiki is to be believed, before he walked over disagreements with Jeeter. And also looked at the Milwaukee Bucks. I've always wanted to know if Matt Chaifetz of Countour Air is related to them. Anyway . . . never say never. Is it likely? Eh, probably not. But it's a danged nice dream.
And STL is not getting an NBA franchise.
But they could easily play in Enterprise Center and I don't see why the NBA would pick any other city. /sdebaliviere wrote: ↑Jul 13, 2022Yes, Ross is Richard's son. He also has a daughter.symphonicpoet wrote: ↑Jul 12, 2022Ross Chaifetz is Richard A's son, right? (They're both at the top of Chaifetz group, so at the very least they're comfortable working together. And surely related somehow.) The elder Chaifetz always struck me as the guy for the job. He's tried to buy teams before, down to and including the Rams, apparently, before Stanky Enough Kranky snapped them up. He had 300M in a bid to buy the Marlins, if Wiki is to be believed, before he walked over disagreements with Jeeter. And also looked at the Milwaukee Bucks. I've always wanted to know if Matt Chaifetz of Countour Air is related to them. Anyway . . . never say never. Is it likely? Eh, probably not. But it's a danged nice dream.
And STL is not getting an NBA franchise.
I agree, it is definitely a long shot that St. Louis gets a team but I would not say it's impossible. Stranger things have happened and the MLS is not a replacement for an NBA or NFL level sports franchise. I don't know if the Mayor and Chaifetz were just trolling, but I would say that there must be some chattering amongst the local elites. I know it's hard for many urbanists on this forum to comprehend this, but when big companies are recruiting and we're going up against a city like KC or even Indianapolis, not having a sports franchise in NFL or NBA could be a deal breaker if everything else is similar. Those are by far the two most popular sports franchises. Only having MLB, NHL, MLS also perpetuates the stereotype that St. Louis is not an inclusive community, considering the NFL and NBA have much more diverse fan bases, We're not Portland, Denver, or Seattle and do not attract the same demographic.dweebe wrote: ↑Jul 13, 2022But they could easily play in Enterprise Center and I don't see why the NBA would pick any other city. /sdebaliviere wrote: ↑Jul 13, 2022Yes, Ross is Richard's son. He also has a daughter.symphonicpoet wrote: ↑Jul 12, 2022Ross Chaifetz is Richard A's son, right? (They're both at the top of Chaifetz group, so at the very least they're comfortable working together. And surely related somehow.) The elder Chaifetz always struck me as the guy for the job. He's tried to buy teams before, down to and including the Rams, apparently, before Stanky Enough Kranky snapped them up. He had 300M in a bid to buy the Marlins, if Wiki is to be believed, before he walked over disagreements with Jeeter. And also looked at the Milwaukee Bucks. I've always wanted to know if Matt Chaifetz of Countour Air is related to them. Anyway . . . never say never. Is it likely? Eh, probably not. But it's a danged nice dream.
And STL is not getting an NBA franchise.
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And ? Sports aren’t the end all be all. We’re fine with what we have. You want basketball, then support the Billikens who have been a decent program for nearly 40 years and have a good chance to be special in the winter.
Austin seems to be doing fine with no pro teams.nationalpastime82 wrote: ↑Jul 14, 2022And ? Sports aren’t the end all be all. We’re fine with what we have. You want basketball, then support the Billikens who have been a decent program for nearly 40 years and have a good chance to be special in the winter.
Nashville has 2 pro teams and that city is on fire.
Portland always seems to be booming and they have just 1 pro team.
I think the difference is these cities are not peers to St. Louis and clearly appeal to a different audience.dweebe wrote: ↑Jul 14, 2022Austin seems to be doing fine with no pro teams.nationalpastime82 wrote: ↑Jul 14, 2022And ? Sports aren’t the end all be all. We’re fine with what we have. You want basketball, then support the Billikens who have been a decent program for nearly 40 years and have a good chance to be special in the winter.
Nashville has 2 pro teams and that city is on fire.
Portland always seems to be booming and they have just 1 pro team.
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Austin has MLSdweebe wrote: ↑Jul 14, 2022Austin seems to be doing fine with no pro teams.nationalpastime82 wrote: ↑Jul 14, 2022And ? Sports aren’t the end all be all. We’re fine with what we have. You want basketball, then support the Billikens who have been a decent program for nearly 40 years and have a good chance to be special in the winter.
Nashville has 2 pro teams and that city is on fire.
Portland always seems to be booming and they have just 1 pro team.
Nashville MLS NHL and NFL and are trying for MLB
Portland has MLS and NBA
I'm talking the big 4. NFL, NBA, MLB and NHL.midcoaststl wrote: ↑Jul 14, 2022Austin has MLSdweebe wrote: ↑Jul 14, 2022Austin seems to be doing fine with no pro teams.nationalpastime82 wrote: ↑Jul 14, 2022And ? Sports aren’t the end all be all. We’re fine with what we have. You want basketball, then support the Billikens who have been a decent program for nearly 40 years and have a good chance to be special in the winter.
Nashville has 2 pro teams and that city is on fire.
Portland always seems to be booming and they have just 1 pro team.
Nashville MLS NHL and NFL and are trying for MLB
Portland has MLS and NBA
Right now NBA teams are way over valued. There's a crash coming.
The 76ers want to build their own $1.3 billion arena.
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https://www.nba.com/sixers/news/76ers-a ... evelopment
https://www.nba.com/sixers/news/76ers-a ... evelopment
True. But it shows the price tag for the just the arena part of a possible St. Louis team.sc4mayor wrote: ↑Jul 22, 2022^Probably makes more sense in the Philly thread…
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The Blues being so strong over the winter would probably hurt the chances of the NBA coming here too.
Cards and Blues own the market. MLS coming here is fine as they won't step on their toes. Nor will the XFL
And yeah it does look like Vegas is going to get all five and given the climate, the MLS and MLB stadiums are going to need be enclosed so the price tags on those venues will be very big compared to other markets. I think Vegas will probably last around a decade or so with all five then the NHL gets squeezed out first. Its been there the longest so has the shortest novelty and I expect will suffer first. Hockey in sun belt markets with NBA teams to compete with let alone others has been a pretty big failure.
Cards and Blues own the market. MLS coming here is fine as they won't step on their toes. Nor will the XFL
And yeah it does look like Vegas is going to get all five and given the climate, the MLS and MLB stadiums are going to need be enclosed so the price tags on those venues will be very big compared to other markets. I think Vegas will probably last around a decade or so with all five then the NHL gets squeezed out first. Its been there the longest so has the shortest novelty and I expect will suffer first. Hockey in sun belt markets with NBA teams to compete with let alone others has been a pretty big failure.
^ Not sure if I would agree with your comments about Blues and the fact that Cards & Blues own the media market.. However, NHL and NBA are working different demographics nor does it seem they hurt each other in the media market. If anything, having NHL and NBA at enterprise center only strengthens it & fills more days, more concessions and by the likes of it NHL and NBA coordinate their media offerings very well. I think that the biggest issue with Enterprise Center is not the arena itself but how to build out and expand locker rooms, training rooms, and more back office. I think their some very creative ways to go about it considering you have a parking garage on one side (easy to demo) and essentially an empty lot on the other side on a stalled development. Of course, the other Elephant in the room is ownership group.
What I think everyone agrees with, really tough to see a St Louis NBA team anytime soon when their is the support, backing and big time dollars for NBA to pass up on what most likely be two billionaire owners with two new billion dollar arenas in the respective cities of Seattle and Las Vegas. Of course, I believe the Clippers should go back to Seattle and then their is an outside chance of a wild card with two team expansion, Las Vegas and a second city up for grabs.
On side note, think MLB in Vegas is still 50/50. Oakland is inching towards a new stadium and billion dollar development opportunity for the A's owner that will be to good to pass up. However, the decision for Oakland will have to by the end of current season or say Bay Area says adios to A's
What I think everyone agrees with, really tough to see a St Louis NBA team anytime soon when their is the support, backing and big time dollars for NBA to pass up on what most likely be two billionaire owners with two new billion dollar arenas in the respective cities of Seattle and Las Vegas. Of course, I believe the Clippers should go back to Seattle and then their is an outside chance of a wild card with two team expansion, Las Vegas and a second city up for grabs.
On side note, think MLB in Vegas is still 50/50. Oakland is inching towards a new stadium and billion dollar development opportunity for the A's owner that will be to good to pass up. However, the decision for Oakland will have to by the end of current season or say Bay Area says adios to A's
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^I think the odds of Vegas being a city worth describing in fifty years are no better than 50/50. They're on the verge of losing their primary source of both water and electricity. Not sure how long an overgrown amusement park in the desert can survive without cheap sources of both. They'll keep going for a while, as I expect there's enough money to import both. But it'll put the brakes on new development there hard, and once that happens it's only a matter of time before some other place decides they want to be Nevada and starts offering incentives. They'll probably get their teams, but they won't keep them long.
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I do think it's so interesting how many people talk about climate change and environmental change, yet we have people flocking to the American southwest, a region lacking in water.
They're slurping it up and I want to know what that moment will look like when reality slaps them in the face as if it were Daniel Day-Lewis.
"I drink your milkshake!"
Sent from my SM-F711U using Tapatalk
They're slurping it up and I want to know what that moment will look like when reality slaps them in the face as if it were Daniel Day-Lewis.
"I drink your milkshake!"
Sent from my SM-F711U using Tapatalk
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^I fear that the entire country is going to be paying to bail out a select few sexy cities, but there's only so much that can be done and eventually the end will come. We'll probably build pipelines at taxpayer expense. New transmission lines across half a continent. And in effect all we'll be doing is bailing out private businesses that have no real need to be there specifically. (And which wouldn't be there, but for the lax regulations and low taxes that drew them out there in the first place.) It's time to pay the piper, but everyone else will end up holding the bag. For a while, anyway.
Las Vegas and Phoenix are certainly doomed long term. I would also add Miami (possibly the whole state of Florida), Houston, and obviously New Orleans as other environmental ticking time bombs. Just in those cities I named we're talking about 20 million or so people that will likely have to migrate elsewhere by the end of the 21st century.symphonicpoet wrote: ↑Jul 25, 2022^I fear that the entire country is going to be paying to bail out a select few sexy cities, but there's only so much that can be done and eventually the end will come. We'll probably build pipelines at taxpayer expense. New transmission lines across half a continent. And in effect all we'll be doing is bailing out private businesses that have no real need to be there specifically. (And which wouldn't be there, but for the lax regulations and low taxes that drew them out there in the first place.) It's time to pay the piper, but everyone else will end up holding the bag. For a while, anyway.
They've already moved everything they can out of the arena and over to the basement/back parts of Stifel so that the Blues have more room to operate.dredger wrote: ↑Jul 24, 2022^ Not sure if I would agree with your comments about Blues and the fact that Cards & Blues own the media market.. However, NHL and NBA are working different demographics nor does it seem they hurt each other in the media market. If anything, having NHL and NBA at enterprise center only strengthens it & fills more days, more concessions and by the likes of it NHL and NBA coordinate their media offerings very well. I think that the biggest issue with Enterprise Center is not the arena itself but how to build out and expand locker rooms, training rooms, and more back office. I think their some very creative ways to go about it considering you have a parking garage on one side (easy to demo) and essentially an empty lot on the other side on a stalled development. Of course, the other Elephant in the room is ownership group.
The problem is the Kiel Garage is owned by the city and they enjoy the money and power from it too much. The only solution would be to build a garage behind the Civil Courts building and link it to Enterprise via sky bridge. Then let the new NBA team have their offices, locker rooms and practice gym in the current Kiel Garage space.
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I think by the time a NBA team opportunity realistically opens up in 10-20 years we will be talking new stadium anyway. Blues went for the renovation but i am not sure they would in 20 years. I think it makes sense to have a under the radar plan in work with that as the assumption anyway.
I still like my idea of moving the post office out of downtown to a new facility and building out that block with a replacement ready to support both leagues. Not sure whether that fits the post office model but it seems like the postal processing center is not the best use of space in a CBD. There definitely needs to be a large retail post office downtown but the processing makes sense to be done in an industrial setting. North Riverfront, Kosciusko are viable locations. Would preserve the current lobby area as a hotel attached to a new arena.
City government should definitly be more proactive about these sorts of things. Rather than wait until the day comes when your team is threatening to move to another city. Have an actual plan in place.
I still like my idea of moving the post office out of downtown to a new facility and building out that block with a replacement ready to support both leagues. Not sure whether that fits the post office model but it seems like the postal processing center is not the best use of space in a CBD. There definitely needs to be a large retail post office downtown but the processing makes sense to be done in an industrial setting. North Riverfront, Kosciusko are viable locations. Would preserve the current lobby area as a hotel attached to a new arena.
City government should definitly be more proactive about these sorts of things. Rather than wait until the day comes when your team is threatening to move to another city. Have an actual plan in place.