I think by the time a NBA team opportunity realistically opens up in 10-20 years we will be talking new stadium anyway. Blues went for the renovation but i am not sure they would in 20 years. I think it makes sense to have a under the radar plan in work with that as the assumption anyway.
The question is when do all these NHL teams with buildings opened in the 1990's get antsy? Hopefully it's not for a long while.
I think we should all accept and understand that by every account, we will NOT have a team before Seattle or Vegas. Seattle always had first dibs on any expansion team simply due to the agreements made when Clay Bennett moved the team to OKC and became the Thunder. What I remember there was that all history, titles and colors will stay in Seattle and the new expansion team will resume being the Sonics again (think the new Cleveland Browns after Art Modell took them to Baltimore). So it's a done deal that any expansion team created in the NBA will have Seattle as the first landing spot.
Vegas seems to make the most sense after Seattle owing to the fact that it's been successful (depending on who you ask) in housing the NFL and NHL so it stands to reason that the NBA would look at Vegas as a serious contender for an expansion team. Does it make sense? Who knows. I didn't think it made any sense for the NHL to expand to LV when they did it, but so far that experiment is working out somewhat well for them. Same goes for the Raiders after they left Oakland.
With all that said, it is awesome that Mayor Jones is interested in the possibility of having a NBA team here. The real question is: how serious is the rest of the community? It would be awesome if we have the right business backing, a strong core of leaders willing to spearhead this and the developers who are ready to make this a reality from a construction or development standpoint. Not to mention, a great marketing strategy to boost interest in the region and beyond. If we struggle in forming these things, it will put us more and more out of contention. But we can make this work!
On a side note, if any one on here has a few billion dollars lying around or burning a hole in their pockets, could you speed this whole process up a bit faster please?
Debaliviere91 wrote:It’s fun to rehash the speculation every now and then, but I think there are still numerous cities ahead of St Louis on the expansion list.
And I would point out that KC is a likely candidate after the next round of expansion (Vegas and Seattle would be the next two). This would effectively end any chance of the NBA in St Louis.
I don't think we could have a chance without a new arena. That said with a solid arena proposal i think we would be one of a handful of locations for consideration. Also would need to find a $$$ owner....
I do think Seattle is a shoe in and Vegas has us beat on odds.
^ Uh no. St. Louis could beat out KC for a team. If I thought there were a real chance either would have a team this decade I would outline in more detail why.
St. Louis has more corporate sponsorship opportunities, a feasible ownership group with enough worth (Chafietz), an updated arena with only moderate changes necessary, and is driving distance to three potential rivals.
Why STL would be ahead of KC- There are 8 Fortune 500 companies in Missouri and 7 are here and 1 in Springfield (we also have Bunge which is in the 500 but uses a foreign address for tax purposes) and F1000 its like 15 to 2
dbInSouthCity wrote:Why STL would be ahead of KC- There are 8 Fortune 500 companies in Missouri and 7 are here and 1 in Springfield (we also have Bunge which is in the 500 but uses a foreign address for tax purposes) and F1000 its like 15 to 2
I don’t disagree with your logic at all. But KC is definitely ahead of St Louis in the odds for getting a team.
dbInSouthCity wrote:Why STL would be ahead of KC- There are 8 Fortune 500 companies in Missouri and 7 are here and 1 in Springfield (we also have Bunge which is in the 500 but uses a foreign address for tax purposes) and F1000 its like 15 to 2
I don’t disagree with your logic at all. But KC is definitely ahead of St Louis in the odds for getting a team.
Vegas doesn’t have nearly the corporate presence St Louis does either, and they are solidly next on the list. NBA really isn’t considering metro areas that aren’t growing. That’s our biggest detractor, assuming we secured and ownership group. We would need to be looking at a 40 team NBA to have a shot.
addxb2 wrote:^ Uh no. St. Louis could beat out KC for a team. If I thought there were a real chance either would have a team this decade I would outline in more detail why.
St. Louis has more corporate sponsorship opportunities, a feasible ownership group with enough worth (Chafietz), an updated arena with only moderate changes necessary, and is driving distance to three potential rivals.
The Enterprise Center would need substantial investment to host an NBA team. And more likely we would need a new arena to host a team.
I don't see Louisville as a major threat. I think we are ahead of KC. Nashville I'm not as sure. Between KC, Nashville, and St. Louis i think all 3 would need new Arenas and a viable ownership group and the first one there would get the team. Seattle and Vegas are favorites for this round and London/Mexico City seem like a stretch to me.
STLEnginerd wrote:I don't see Louisville as a major threat. I think we are ahead of KC. Nashville I'm not as sure. Between KC, Nashville, and St. Louis i think all 3 would need new Arenas and a viable ownership group and the first one there would get the team. Seattle and Vegas are favorites for this round and London/Mexico City seem like a stretch to me.
I have a contact who is privy to the viewpoint of the NBA. Louisville had some momentum in the last 10 years or so, but that has stalled to a degree. I can tell you that St Louis sits on the upper end of the top 10 as far as ranking the leagues desire to expand there. Of course an ownership groups pitch changes things. From the league’s perspective, our stagnate growth as a region is of a primary concern and that’s why they are high on Nashville and KC ahead of St Louis in the next round of expansion after Seattle and Vegas get in.
They haven’t quite figured out what to do internationally yet, but at some point they likely will expand there, and those locations will be ahead of us as well.
STLEnginerd wrote:I don't see Louisville as a major threat. I think we are ahead of KC. Nashville I'm not as sure. Between KC, Nashville, and St. Louis i think all 3 would need new Arenas and a viable ownership group and the first one there would get the team. Seattle and Vegas are favorites for this round and London/Mexico City seem like a stretch to me.
I have a contact who is privy to the viewpoint of the NBA. Louisville had some momentum in the last 10 years or so, but that has stalled to a degree. I can tell you that St Louis sits on the upper end of the top 10 as far as ranking the leagues desire to expand there. Of course an ownership groups pitch changes things. From the league’s perspective, our stagnate growth as a region is of a primary concern and that’s why they are high on Nashville and KC ahead of St Louis in the next round of expansion after Seattle and Vegas get in.
They haven’t quite figured out what to do internationally yet, but at some point they likely will expand there, and those locations will be ahead of us as well.
I understand Nashville but KC isn’t anywhere close to Nashville or Vegas growth rate. When looking at income and “white collar” job growth which are important for airlines and teams, St. Louis is still growing faster than KC.
To your point on ownership group, an aspect that is kept out of view until things get serious, that’s where St. Louis is going to shine brightest.
STLEnginerd wrote:I don't see Louisville as a major threat. I think we are ahead of KC. Nashville I'm not as sure. Between KC, Nashville, and St. Louis i think all 3 would need new Arenas and a viable ownership group and the first one there would get the team. Seattle and Vegas are favorites for this round and London/Mexico City seem like a stretch to me.
I have a contact who is privy to the viewpoint of the NBA. Louisville had some momentum in the last 10 years or so, but that has stalled to a degree. I can tell you that St Louis sits on the upper end of the top 10 as far as ranking the leagues desire to expand there. Of course an ownership groups pitch changes things. From the league’s perspective, our stagnate growth as a region is of a primary concern and that’s why they are high on Nashville and KC ahead of St Louis in the next round of expansion after Seattle and Vegas get in.
They haven’t quite figured out what to do internationally yet, but at some point they likely will expand there, and those locations will be ahead of us as well.
I understand Nashville but KC isn’t anywhere close to Nashville or Vegas growth rate. When looking at income and “white collar” job growth which are important for airlines and teams, St. Louis is still growing faster than KC.
To your point on ownership group, an aspect that is kept out of view until things get serious, that’s where St. Louis is going to shine brightest.
We grew at 1% at the last census. KC grew at 9% and that gap in growth rates will likely expand in 2030. That’s a major blow for us from the NBA’s perspective.
No doubt we are in better shape from a business community standpoint though.
I don’t think St Louis is in a better position from an ownership groups perspective either.
I disagree as far as STL vs KC getting a team - STL is probably much better positioned to get a NBA team before KC will for a few reasons. One, STL is a bigger media market than KC is (STL is ranked 24th while KC is ranked 33rd per Nielsen DMA statistics) and ultimately, the NBA will want to put itself in a market that will get the most amount of viewers watching its games. Obviously, this would need to be maintained through steady population growth but beyond that, KC has a steep hill to climb if it wants to make a case. Secondly, the corporate presence and support that exists here in STL is stronger and has potentially deeper pockets than KC's corporate community there. Posters before me have long pointed out the existence of more F500 and F1000 companies in the STL region which would provide support and sponsorship to a new NBA team and help keep the team here too should such a thing were to happen. Thirdly, the presence of a NBA team in KC would put it in conflict with the KU fanbase and the legions of alumni and fans who live and work in the KC area especially given their legacy of success and deeply passionate fanbase. Not saying that in itself should be a reason for not having a team in KC since there are a number of NBA cities who live in the midst of CBB powerhouse programs, but it would need to be decisively proven in a market like KC's. By contrast, STL wouldn't necessarily have that issue since it's not in the midst of any legacy CBB powerhouses (Mizzou is not nearly as successful or dominant like KU is and same goes for Illini and SLU).
Seattle will be the first city that will get an expansion team - it's long been decided that in the case of an expansion, Seattle will get a team first owing to its agreement to let the team move to OKC in exchange for maintaining the Sonics name, legacy, titles, records, etc. in Seattle. They will be the new Seattle Sonics, so let's move past debating whether Seattle will get a team or not. Additionally, given how other sports teams have fared well, Vegas would be the second city to get an expansion team. As to whether Nashville is in competition, I have doubts on this given that Memphis already has a NBA team and would likely object to having an expansion team take a chunk of its viewership away. Potentially the same argument could be made for Louisville given its close(ish) proximity to Indianapolis, not to mention a much smaller media market than any of the cities mentioned above. Both cities do have a number of potential corporate sponsors (Bridgestone, HCA and Firestone to name a few in Nashville, Humana and YUM! Brands in Louisville) that could support a team in their respective cities so that shouldn't be an issue, but it's a question of whether the owners would object to another team taking a large chunk of their market or not.
In any case, if STL wants to make a strong case for bringing a NBA expansion team here, it needs to make sure that the Enterprise Center is up to snuff and invest in renovations that would bring it up to the standards that the NBA is looking for. It would also require an owner or ownership group that will commit to the region and ensure that they won't cut and run like Kroenke or Bidwell. In addition, there was already an attempt by the former Grizzlies ownership group to move to STL but sadly it was aborted for one reason or another (NBA politics, intent to stay in Vancouver, etc.), giving fuel to the argument that STL can still be considered a strong destination for an expansion team. Hard to necessarily say the same about KC, but I could be wrong and would love to be educated.
AJ1289 wrote:I disagree as far as STL vs KC getting a team - STL is probably much better positioned to get a NBA team before KC will for a few reasons. One, STL is a bigger media market than KC is (STL is ranked 24th while KC is ranked 33rd per Nielsen DMA statistics) and ultimately, the NBA will want to put itself in a market that will get the most amount of viewers watching its games. Obviously, this would need to be maintained through steady population growth but beyond that, KC has a steep hill to climb if it wants to make a case. Secondly, the corporate presence and support that exists here in STL is stronger and has potentially deeper pockets than KC's corporate community there. Posters before me have long pointed out the existence of more F500 and F1000 companies in the STL region which would provide support and sponsorship to a new NBA team and help keep the team here too should such a thing were to happen. Thirdly, the presence of a NBA team in KC would put it in conflict with the KU fanbase and the legions of alumni and fans who live and work in the KC area especially given their legacy of success and deeply passionate fanbase. Not saying that in itself should be a reason for not having a team in KC since there are a number of NBA cities who live in the midst of CBB powerhouse programs, but it would need to be decisively proven in a market like KC's. By contrast, STL wouldn't necessarily have that issue since it's not in the midst of any legacy CBB powerhouses (Mizzou is not nearly as successful or dominant like KU is and same goes for Illini and SLU).
Seattle will be the first city that will get an expansion team - it's long been decided that in the case of an expansion, Seattle will get a team first owing to its agreement to let the team move to OKC in exchange for maintaining the Sonics name, legacy, titles, records, etc. in Seattle. They will be the new Seattle Sonics, so let's move past debating whether Seattle will get a team or not. Additionally, given how other sports teams have fared well, Vegas would be the second city to get an expansion team. As to whether Nashville is in competition, I have doubts on this given that Memphis already has a NBA team and would likely object to having an expansion team take a chunk of its viewership away. Potentially the same argument could be made for Louisville given its close(ish) proximity to Indianapolis, not to mention a much smaller media market than any of the cities mentioned above. Both cities do have a number of potential corporate sponsors (Bridgestone, HCA and Firestone to name a few in Nashville, Humana and YUM! Brands in Louisville) that could support a team in their respective cities so that shouldn't be an issue, but it's a question of whether the owners would object to another team taking a large chunk of their market or not.
In any case, if STL wants to make a strong case for bringing a NBA expansion team here, it needs to make sure that the Enterprise Center is up to snuff and invest in renovations that would bring it up to the standards that the NBA is looking for. It would also require an owner or ownership group that will commit to the region and ensure that they won't cut and run like Kroenke or Bidwell. In addition, there was already an attempt by the former Grizzlies ownership group to move to STL but sadly it was aborted for one reason or another (NBA politics, intent to stay in Vancouver, etc.), giving fuel to the argument that STL can still be considered a strong destination for an expansion team. Hard to necessarily say the same about KC, but I could be wrong and would love to be educated.
I don’t disagree with any of this. Other than your point about KU basketball. Thats not relevant at all, other than it points to the fact the KC has a lot of interest in the sport generally.
I’m merely representing the view point of the NBA, based on a pretty reliable source I have. KC is higher on the list currently than St Louis and the growth rates of the region is the primary reason.
AJ1289 wrote:I disagree as far as STL vs KC getting a team - STL is probably much better positioned to get a NBA team before KC will for a few reasons. One, STL is a bigger media market than KC is (STL is ranked 24th while KC is ranked 33rd per Nielsen DMA statistics) and ultimately, the NBA will want to put itself in a market that will get the most amount of viewers watching its games. Obviously, this would need to be maintained through steady population growth but beyond that, KC has a steep hill to climb if it wants to make a case. Secondly, the corporate presence and support that exists here in STL is stronger and has potentially deeper pockets than KC's corporate community there. Posters before me have long pointed out the existence of more F500 and F1000 companies in the STL region which would provide support and sponsorship to a new NBA team and help keep the team here too should such a thing were to happen. Thirdly, the presence of a NBA team in KC would put it in conflict with the KU fanbase and the legions of alumni and fans who live and work in the KC area especially given their legacy of success and deeply passionate fanbase. Not saying that in itself should be a reason for not having a team in KC since there are a number of NBA cities who live in the midst of CBB powerhouse programs, but it would need to be decisively proven in a market like KC's. By contrast, STL wouldn't necessarily have that issue since it's not in the midst of any legacy CBB powerhouses (Mizzou is not nearly as successful or dominant like KU is and same goes for Illini and SLU).
Seattle will be the first city that will get an expansion team - it's long been decided that in the case of an expansion, Seattle will get a team first owing to its agreement to let the team move to OKC in exchange for maintaining the Sonics name, legacy, titles, records, etc. in Seattle. They will be the new Seattle Sonics, so let's move past debating whether Seattle will get a team or not. Additionally, given how other sports teams have fared well, Vegas would be the second city to get an expansion team. As to whether Nashville is in competition, I have doubts on this given that Memphis already has a NBA team and would likely object to having an expansion team take a chunk of its viewership away. Potentially the same argument could be made for Louisville given its close(ish) proximity to Indianapolis, not to mention a much smaller media market than any of the cities mentioned above. Both cities do have a number of potential corporate sponsors (Bridgestone, HCA and Firestone to name a few in Nashville, Humana and YUM! Brands in Louisville) that could support a team in their respective cities so that shouldn't be an issue, but it's a question of whether the owners would object to another team taking a large chunk of their market or not.
In any case, if STL wants to make a strong case for bringing a NBA expansion team here, it needs to make sure that the Enterprise Center is up to snuff and invest in renovations that would bring it up to the standards that the NBA is looking for. It would also require an owner or ownership group that will commit to the region and ensure that they won't cut and run like Kroenke or Bidwell. In addition, there was already an attempt by the former Grizzlies ownership group to move to STL but sadly it was aborted for one reason or another (NBA politics, intent to stay in Vancouver, etc.), giving fuel to the argument that STL can still be considered a strong destination for an expansion team. Hard to necessarily say the same about KC, but I could be wrong and would love to be educated.
I don’t disagree with any of this. Other than your point about KU basketball. Thats not relevant at all, other than it points to the fact the KC has a lot of interest in the sport generally.
I’m merely representing the view point of the NBA, based on a pretty reliable source I have. KC is higher on the list currently than St Louis and the growth rates of the region is the primary reason.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Fair enough, but it should also be noted that growth rates for a region cannot be the only metric that a professional sports league looks at when it comes to deciding whether to expand the league into a new market or not. If that was the case, there would be plenty of other cities out west or south of us that would make a stronger case for an expansion team to land there if we're solely referring to population growth rates. I'm quite confident that your source would also have heard that as well assuming they are privy to such discussions in the league board room.
Fair point on the KU argument, doesn't really add any value to the discussion. I only added that in to point out that there is a possibility of an uneven split from a viewership perspective. KU alums and fans of varying degrees are dedicated to their basketball team and I would not be surprised if you heard more people willing to watch a KU game over a regular season KC NBA game, thus hurting the viewership and attendance. Again, not saying that it will happen and I would love to be proven wrong, but it's hard not to overlook such a possibility especially given the proximity of KU to the KC metro area.
IMHO. If there was a new viable arena proposal (with real money allocated) and solid ownership group St. Louis would jump to second in line. I don't see anyone scooping Seattle. They will not come to St. Louis without a new Arena. renovated Enterprise will not cut it.
