Based on the amount of nitpicky complaints im convinced people on this website would of been happier if this site stayed a dilapidated park and run down highway off/on ramps for the rest of time instead of being a project that has actually spurred development in the neighborhood and adjacent neighborhoods from Butler Brothers, 1800 & 1801 Washington, JC Connector, AHM tower and rehabs, 2 hotels at Wells Fargo, Apartment Building at Chestnut and 23rd
Uh, I have ZERO complaints about this development, but lets be honest with what this has spurred as of yet.
Butlers, AHM tower and rehabs, C&23 are all, in my estimation, tied directly to this stadium build, and only one has a permit. And that is a nice haul, and additionally I don't think we're finished...but the rest were already on the board or likely to happen anyway. Does it help those developments? Certainly, but Wells Fargo was building those hotels for their trainee program regardless, JC Connector has long been happening.
Based on the amount of nitpicky complaints im convinced people on this website would of been happier if this site stayed a dilapidated park and run down highway off/on ramps for the rest of time instead of being a project that has actually spurred development in the neighborhood and adjacent neighborhoods from Butler Brothers, 1800 & 1801 Washington, JC Connector, AHM tower and rehabs, 2 hotels at Wells Fargo, Apartment Building at Chestnut and 23rd
Uh, I have ZERO complaints about this development, but lets be honest with what this has spurred as of yet.
Butlers, AHM tower and rehabs, C&23 are all, in my estimation, tied directly to this stadium build, and only one has a permit. And that is a nice haul, and additionally I don't think we're finished...but the rest were already on the board or likely to happen anyway. Does it help those developments? Certainly, but Wells Fargo was building those hotels for their trainee program regardless, JC Connector has long been happening.
C21 hotel and any other hotel in the area are tied to NGA, as is most of the stuff announced in downtown west 2018-2021. Butler brothers would have happened without stadium
"Practice fields are on the site of an old highway entrance & exit ramp, when it could have been in Earth City - BOO!!!"
"A business I don't frequent has to temporarily relocate after not doing anything with the YEARS of early notice to do so - BOO!!!"
I wouldn't complain about the practice fields securing another superblock in our CBD if they had considered Downtown residents and visitors in their plans. These are entirely closed off to the public with 15-foot-tall fences when they could've easily added a turf pitch for the public to bring some more action south of Market and really drive home the "soccer city" aspect. I'm not overly displeased with what they have done with the area, so to speak, but I have considered the potential of what they could've built as well as the funds and power the Taylor family holds and that's the disappointing part. As someone who plays a lot of soccer, I understand how valuable having a public pitch is, especially in an urban setting like St. Louis that almost entirely neglects them. Onto the next point: Upper Limits was my go-to climbing gym, and I know of several visitors who visited that particular location during their stay. Its removal from the area is just one less thing that DTW has going for it.
Don't get me wrong: this is a fantastic investment and a huge step forward for the city and for Downtown. I just wish we wouldn't constantly have to settle for less, especially for a several hundred-million-dollar project like this. After the demolition of 1900 Olive, it's much harder for me to forgive the little frustrating things they do here and there, especially when they flex their power and disrupt the neighborhood's function. When the stadium opens, hell yeah, I'll be excited. That doesn't mean that I can't be annoyed about the several historic buildings demolished and businesses forced out.
With this being said, I think the ownership group could make it right if they invested in public spaces for soccer. I think various five aside pitches scattered throughout the city would promote their goals of putting STL on the map as the soccer capital. Just my thoughts.
On the topic of trees I’d imagine it was a cost problem. They are very expensive right now with some strange happenings of new unidentified diseases at nursery’s across the country. At least so says one of my suppliers. A 2-3” caliper has gone from about $400 to nearly $700 at times due to lack of supply. People are being very cautious sending trees right now as nobody wants to begin the next emerald ash borer situation.
Based on the amount of nitpicky complaints im convinced people on this website would of been happier if this site stayed a dilapidated park and run down highway off/on ramps for the rest of time instead of being a project that has actually spurred development in the neighborhood and adjacent neighborhoods from Butler Brothers, 1800 & 1801 Washington, JC Connector, AHM tower and rehabs, 2 hotels at Wells Fargo, Apartment Building at Chestnut and 23rd
Uh, I have ZERO complaints about this development, but lets be honest with what this has spurred as of yet.
Butlers, AHM tower and rehabs, C&23 are all, in my estimation, tied directly to this stadium build, and only one has a permit. And that is a nice haul, and additionally I don't think we're finished...but the rest were already on the board or likely to happen anyway. Does it help those developments? Certainly, but Wells Fargo was building those hotels for their trainee program regardless, JC Connector has long been happening.
C21 hotel and any other hotel in the area are tied to NGA, as is most of the stuff announced in downtown west 2018-2021. Butler brothers would have happened without stadium
You've been around long enough to know that renderings with trees are never realistic and developers ALWAYS are always lying when they show tons of big trees by new construction. That first rendering that is now breaking your heart or the Boulevard Phase 2 that shows a 40 year growth tree where the Burger King used to be are one of many examples.
I’m no expert on MLS, but maybe this isn’t a huge deal regarding sun/heat. All of Sporting KC’s upcoming games are at night…I assume our schedule will be similar. If they are all at night in the summer then the situation is no different from Cardinals games.
I'm for one in agreement with a good outcome with the fact of having the stadium, practice fields and team facilities all downtown. Even more so with the removal of the old 22nd parkway and interchange being literally the one example of freeway removal in St. Louis region. Yes, a very short section and replacement interchange so so (but overall significant reduction in freeway footprint). Hooping that removing as such, bringing at least partial street grid back, rebuilt Market and forthcoming Brickline & cycle paths will only encourage a new approach to the whole Market/FPP/and grade separated Grand intersection. In other words, one small changes leads to some bigger changes just down the street.
As far as practice fields themselves. The team could easily decide to open them up to others at any given time, whether it be high school and collegiate or even occasional off season youth tournament, and or even public or who knows, maybe a downtown rec league in the future. But I think the reality is team is focusing on getting things started for the team itself and keeping practice fields to themselves in short term makes a lot of sense IMO.
As far as practice fields In the long run, I can see the land for which the practice facilities sit on change in value to the owners. From practice facilities into a built environment if a lot of the proposed infill and rehabs happens in the next several years.. Simply by moving the training facilities they could break the three current practice pitches into three developable quadrants by phasing in some more street grid and utilities (think BPV). Develop/build out a quadrant at a time while keeping the other practice pitches in place to rent out, host events, local teams, so on.
The demo of built environment, yep on board with a bad move all around simply for the sake of consolidated in house parking revenues. Rehab with some well thought infill would have came out great. The silver lining is the team owners didn't buy up any more parcels if not mistaken. Instead, your starting to see some great rehab/infill proposals like AHM come to light.
@Elek.borrelli Fully agree with your last paragraph above. MLS4STL furthering soccer in and around neighborhoods throughout the region - and especially the City - would do a tremendous amount not just for furthering their own brand/sport but for improving neighborhoods through proactive investment leading to quality of life improvements. While I think it's reasonable to presume that MLS4STL is doing some of this already, you may want to forward them that picture, tell them that you're in favor of such things. Heck, that may spur the development/redevelopment of low-rise buildings with pitches above them. Side note: I bet that the first bar to do so, and create their own leagues, will make a hell of a lot of money.
The trees don’t seem like a big deal to me. Most of the stadium is covered by the roof so most fans will wait in line for a few minutes to get inside and then be shaded once they’re at their seats. Trees take time to grow also. In 10 years, that plaza will be well shaded
The trees don’t seem like a big deal to me. Most of the stadium is covered by the roof so most fans will wait in line for a few minutes to get inside and then be shaded once they’re at their seats. Trees take time to grow also. In 10 years, that plaza will be well shaded
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People won't be happy unless
-the team gives their office building to Upper Limits
-all the trees around the stadium are 20-30 year mature
-the practice fields are moved elsewhere or open to the public
-the Brickline trail is protected/bikes only with no excuses for games
The trees don’t seem like a big deal to me. Most of the stadium is covered by the roof so most fans will wait in line for a few minutes to get inside and then be shaded once they’re at their seats. Trees take time to grow also. In 10 years, that plaza will be well shaded
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People won't be happy unless
-the team gives their office building to Upper Limits
-all the trees around the stadium are 20-30 year mature
-the practice fields are moved elsewhere or open to the public
-the Brickline trail is protected/bikes only with no excuses for games
People are demanding more from CITY than the Cardinals & Blues combined...and the Cards & Blues have had the taxpayers funding a lot of their bills / renovations.
I’m no expert on MLS, but maybe this isn’t a huge deal regarding sun/heat. All of Sporting KC’s upcoming games are at night…I assume our schedule will be similar. If they are all at night in the summer then the situation is no different from Cardinals games.
MLS has a new tv deal starting next year. In it all games will be night games on Saturday or Wednesday. There will be a few exceptions for conflicts but for the most part all night games on those 2 days of the week
I was in Springfield MO making sure I didn't fail every class during the Busch construction from 2004-2006 and when enterprise was built I wasn't in this country.
The practice fields being closed to the public strike me as more of a land-banking strategy than anything else. If they open these fields to the public, there would be an outcry when/if they decide to build over them.
I would love to see these little indoor sized soccer parks pop up around the city though. I love the fact that these are on rooftops. Another good spot would be under the downtown highways. Would be a great connective tissue between the 4th St area and Chouteau's Landing.
I would also accept converting one of the western Gateway Mall parcels into a mini soccer park with 3-4 of these.
The practice fields being closed to the public strike me as more of a land-banking strategy than anything else. If they open these fields to the public, there would be an outcry when/if they decide to build over them.
I would love to see these little indoor sized soccer parks pop up around the city though. I love the fact that these are on rooftops. Another good spot would be under the downtown highways. Would be a great connective tissue between the 4th St area and Chouteau's Landing.
I would also accept converting one of the western Gateway Mall parcels into a mini soccer park with 3-4 of these.
They could start with the old stray rescue building and parcel: convert the building into a soccer bar similar to The Amsterdam and have an outdoor 5-aside pitch with projector screens and bar seating around it.
I have to say... the drone rise on the parking lot just makes me think about how amazing a nice 8-10 story apartment building would look right there.
LHM has zero residential developments in their portfolio, they've never done one and its just not what they do and i dont see them selling that lot- its the main lot for all the events at midway.
Now this lot, which from i can tell isnt really used at all and its in very bad shape, might be a good spot for a 5-6 story building
First, they don't have too!!!
Second, They team itself even hasn't have had a practice on their own field!!!
Third, They can pretty much open it the public at anytime the future!!!
Can we all move on from Dweebe's point and give it a break for a while. I promise I will quit stating the same obvious point about LHM surface lots in return
I have to say... the drone rise on the parking lot just makes me think about how amazing a nice 8-10 story apartment building would look right there.
LHM has zero residential developments in their portfolio, they've never done one and its just not what they do and i dont see them selling that lot- its the main lot for all the events at midway.
Now this lot, which from i can tell isnt really used at all and its in very bad shape, might be a good spot for a 5-6 story building
I have to say... the drone rise on the parking lot just makes me think about how amazing a nice 8-10 story apartment building would look right there.
LHM has zero residential developments in their portfolio, they've never done one and its just not what they do and i dont see them selling that lot- its the main lot for all the events at midway.
Now this lot, which from i can tell isnt really used at all and its in very bad shape, might be a good spot for a 5-6 story building
So a tall hotel then? hah
that lot is owned by Metro (Bi-State) so its much more likely to be sold if someone wants to do anything
