^^^ Of all places, one like Milwaukee that is built on Lake Michigan, a downtown water park seems an obvious folly. /HINDSIGHT
^^ Very uncool. UL has been a mainstay for nearly 30 years!
^^ Very uncool. UL has been a mainstay for nearly 30 years!
- 339
I was worried about this but had hopes that they could occupy the building together. Out of all the empty buildings and parking lots in the area they chose an occupied building? Seriously? A climbing gym is something that draws more people to the area for things other than catching a game.dbInSouthCity wrote: ↑Jul 18, 2022https://upperlimits.com/maryland-height ... agrABPvcl8
Team kicks out upper limits from its hq building
CITY claims that they're motivated to improve DTW and progress it as a 24/7 work, live, leisure neighborhood, but their senseless demolition and annexation has really given off the opposite vibe. At the end of the day, these owners are the average west county resident who happened upon the money and drive to bring MLS to St. Louis and who probably consider The Boulevard "urbanism."
The stadium is far less exciting looking than the renders, the gated practice fields break up what could've been the return of our street grid (and also shun the community), and we have lost numerous downtown buildings to CITY's wrecking ball. I am not a fan of how this development is being handled.
Am I the only one who feels this through the excitement of having a new franchise?
Upper Limits would make an excellent tenant for a redeveloped streetcar power plant on Locust.
Damn it. That's been a great asset to downtown for decades (before all these climbing gyms were cool). Hopefully they can find good alternative in the DT area and reactivate an unused space.dbInSouthCity wrote: ↑Jul 18, 2022https://upperlimits.com/maryland-height ... agrABPvcl8
Team kicks out upper limits from its hq building
100%chriss752 wrote: ↑Jul 18, 2022Upper Limits would make an excellent tenant for a redeveloped streetcar power plant on Locust.
- 6,123
I like the way you think. How much space would they need, how much money would it take to stabilize the building, get it tight, and fundamentally occupiable, and what else could go in there with it if there's extra space?chriss752 wrote: ↑Jul 18, 2022Upper Limits would make an excellent tenant for a redeveloped streetcar power plant on Locust.
Elek, I agree. I don't mind the stadium itself, although I never thought it was that groundbreaking to begin with, so my expectations were never that high. I think it's a bit better than other recent MLS stadiums, though.Elek.borrelli wrote: ↑Jul 18, 2022I was worried about this but had hopes that they could occupy the building together. Out of all the empty buildings and parking lots in the area they chose an occupied building? Seriously? A climbing gym is something that draws more people to the area for things other than catching a game.dbInSouthCity wrote: ↑Jul 18, 2022https://upperlimits.com/maryland-height ... agrABPvcl8
Team kicks out upper limits from its hq building
CITY claims that they're motivated to improve DTW and progress it as a 24/7 work, live, leisure neighborhood, but their senseless demolition and annexation has really given off the opposite vibe. At the end of the day, these owners are the average west county resident who happened upon the money and drive to bring MLS to St. Louis and who probably consider The Boulevard "urbanism."
The stadium is far less exciting looking than the renders, the gated practice fields break up what could've been the return of our street grid (and also shun the community), and we have lost numerous downtown buildings to CITY's wrecking ball. I am not a fan of how this development is being handled.
Am I the only one who feels this through the excitement of having a new franchise?
Regarding the practice fields, they might as well be surface parking, am I right? Yeah, they look shiny and new (and green), but they contribute about the same amount of daily life to our city (arguably less) than a surface parking lot, which we've all sworn an oath to eradicate, last I checked (part of the UrbanSTL terms of agreement, I think). Yeah, the previous interchange was a huge waste of space, but so are three practice fields and a parking garage. I'm still a bit put off by the fact that we've all agreed to buy into this "district" BS. Several block-sized practice fields and a block-sized parking garage does not a district make. I understand that there are other developments planned nearby (by others, I'll note), but I suspect that most of those would have happened anyway, given the momentum that was already building in DT, DT West, and Midtown.
You can put me in the "pro stadium/team, anti practice-field parking-garage granular-CITY-demolishing" camp.
About what DB said price wise would be my guess.symphonicpoet wrote: ↑Jul 18, 2022I like the way you think. How much space would they need, how much money would it take to stabilize the building, get it tight, and fundamentally occupiable, and what else could go in there with it if there's extra space?chriss752 wrote: ↑Jul 18, 2022Upper Limits would make an excellent tenant for a redeveloped streetcar power plant on Locust.
If I owned the place and wanted Upper Limits there, I'd make the back portion the climbing room and the front, along Locust, could be some sort of bar/restaurant thing. So, you retain current clients and get new ones. It's about the only usage I can think of for that building that's not a concert venue or outdoor beer garden thing like Silky Osullivan's in Memphis.
- 6,123
^I could see it being a great replacement for the YMCA that moved, particularly if you could still combine it with the building next door. Maybe you could do a good indoor pool, some basketball courts, the climbing gym, of course, and some of the other trendy and traditional. As the Butler Brothers comes on line there could really be a demand right there. If you can combine those two buildings and get a little creative you could do a lot.
- 2,056
^If Upper Limits is listening or anyone knows them - this would be a good fundraising (Kickstarter/Indiegogo) moment for a new space... Not to mention some folks could bully the Taylors to make a donation.
Not sure downtown west needs any more plazas and associated security to shoo people away, but I guess this was the plan all along.
I really hope the Brickline Greenway remains passable during games and events. This is a major beef with the Chestnut protected bike lane, that it's blocked by festivals half the weekends.
I really hope the Brickline Greenway remains passable during games and events. This is a major beef with the Chestnut protected bike lane, that it's blocked by festivals half the weekends.
I'm not going to get angry about a plaza in front of the stadium. If it was butted right up against the street like the Edward Jones Dome then you end up having lines spilling in to the streets and having to close them down on gameday. Or Enterprise Center how they always close 14th street sometimes close Clark. The plaza will funnel people this way and hopefully keep Olive and Market open on game days.eee123 wrote: ↑Jul 19, 2022Not sure downtown west needs any more plazas and associated security to shoo people away, but I guess this was the plan all along.
I really hope the Brickline Greenway remains passable during games and events. This is a major beef with the Chestnut protected bike lane, that it's blocked by festivals half the weekends.
And my guess is all those annoying people entering the stadium on gameday is going to make the Brickline unpassable for a few hours 25 days a year.
- 9,565
cant wait for next july when its a 105 out to stand in that open plaza and bake.
Yeah, it's bull**** they don't have 20 year mature shade trees there. The Taylors can't do anything right, can they?dbInSouthCity wrote: ↑Jul 19, 2022cant wait for next july when its a 105 out to stand in that open plaza and bake.
- 9,565
You know, mature tree for sale are a thing as are other various shade canopies
If only they hadn't cut down the trees that were there before.dbInSouthCity wrote: ↑Jul 19, 2022You know, mature tree for sale are a thing as are other various shade canopies
"Lou Fusz Plaza will be a 125,500 square foot area comprised of 24,000 square feet of green space including 76 trees and 1,000 linear feet of trail running along 20th street."
Look I know all everyone on here likes to do is complain but this is literally from the press release... The rendering has like 15 trees shown in the plaza, according to the press release there will be more.
Based on the amount of nitpicky complaints im convinced people on this website would of been happier if this site stayed a dilapidated park and run down highway off/on ramps for the rest of time instead of being a project that has actually spurred development in the neighborhood and adjacent neighborhoods from Butler Brothers, 1800 & 1801 Washington, JC Connector, AHM tower and rehabs, 2 hotels at Wells Fargo, Apartment Building at Chestnut and 23rd
Look I know all everyone on here likes to do is complain but this is literally from the press release... The rendering has like 15 trees shown in the plaza, according to the press release there will be more.
Based on the amount of nitpicky complaints im convinced people on this website would of been happier if this site stayed a dilapidated park and run down highway off/on ramps for the rest of time instead of being a project that has actually spurred development in the neighborhood and adjacent neighborhoods from Butler Brothers, 1800 & 1801 Washington, JC Connector, AHM tower and rehabs, 2 hotels at Wells Fargo, Apartment Building at Chestnut and 23rd
Same here.Khakis wrote: ↑Jul 19, 2022Based on the amount of nitpicky complaints im convinced people on this website would of been happier if this site stayed a dilapidated park and run down highway off/on ramps for the rest of time instead of being a project that has actually spurred development in the neighborhood and adjacent neighborhoods from Butler Brothers, 1800 & 1801 Washington, JC Connector, AHM tower and rehabs, 2 hotels at Wells Fargo, Apartment Building at Chestnut and 23rd
Look at the current Busch Stadium and the trees along the west side on 7th and east side on Broadway. They're now some nice shade to stand under on a hot day when waiting to meet up with someone before going in. But those weren't there when Busch opened in 2006. And I'm not going to yell at St. Louis SC because there's isn't a full tree canopy in front of Centene right damn now.
- 2,929
^Agree vehemently. I'm not sure exactly when this happened, but it turns out there are a whole lot of curmudgeons who would rather gripe about something than do something to fix it, who grudge at success and cheer the potential for failure just so they can keep on their high horse and complain. Your right observation, @Khakis, that they didn't even read the GDMF press release before the knee-jerk reaction to the opposite of what it said (re: trees), shows that this is becoming endemic.
"Ooh, the sidewalk's gonna be busy in front of the big project that's funding the sidewalk, sometimes, on a rather limited basis - BOO!!!"
"Practice fields are on the site of an old highway entrance & exit ramp, when it could have been in Earth City - BOO!!!"
"A business I don't frequent has to temporarily relocate after not doing anything with the YEARS of early notice to do so - BOO!!!"
THIS IS WHY WE CAN'T HAVE NICE THINGS!!!
You may have a different opinion than the consensus. That doesn't mean you're right. Sometimes it only means that you're contrarian.
"Ooh, the sidewalk's gonna be busy in front of the big project that's funding the sidewalk, sometimes, on a rather limited basis - BOO!!!"
"Practice fields are on the site of an old highway entrance & exit ramp, when it could have been in Earth City - BOO!!!"
"A business I don't frequent has to temporarily relocate after not doing anything with the YEARS of early notice to do so - BOO!!!"
THIS IS WHY WE CAN'T HAVE NICE THINGS!!!
You may have a different opinion than the consensus. That doesn't mean you're right. Sometimes it only means that you're contrarian.
- 9,565
all im asking is to match the Cardinals who about 1 tree per 600 sq feet on either side of the stadium, this is 1 per 1,650.Khakis wrote: ↑Jul 19, 2022"Lou Fusz Plaza will be a 125,500 square foot area comprised of 24,000 square feet of green space including 76 trees and 1,000 linear feet of trail running along 20th street."
Look I know all everyone on here likes to do is complain but this is literally from the press release... The rendering has like 15 trees shown in the plaza, according to the press release there will be more.
Based on the amount of nitpicky complaints im convinced people on this website would of been happier if this site stayed a dilapidated park and run down highway off/on ramps for the rest of time instead of being a project that has actually spurred development in the neighborhood and adjacent neighborhoods from Butler Brothers, 1800 & 1801 Washington, JC Connector, AHM tower and rehabs, 2 hotels at Wells Fargo, Apartment Building at Chestnut and 23rd
the blues have none at their plaza but their season is fall to spring (although that plaza is horrendous and could use some landscaping)
My complaint about the Greenway is rooted in the lack of infrastructure.
If we had 10 bike paths and protected bike lanes downtown, closures wouldn't be awful.
Instead we have a permanently blocked riverfront trail, a frequently blocked chestnut street lane, and soon the brickline.
Every one of these glowing press releases talks about things like magic parking garages that will bring life to the neighborhood, but for residents I'm not sure 25 dates a year, mostly Saturdays when things are already busy, are really transformative.
As db said, walking past Busch or Enterprise on a summer non game day is pretty unpleasant.
If we had 10 bike paths and protected bike lanes downtown, closures wouldn't be awful.
Instead we have a permanently blocked riverfront trail, a frequently blocked chestnut street lane, and soon the brickline.
Every one of these glowing press releases talks about things like magic parking garages that will bring life to the neighborhood, but for residents I'm not sure 25 dates a year, mostly Saturdays when things are already busy, are really transformative.
As db said, walking past Busch or Enterprise on a summer non game day is pretty unpleasant.
Who said anything about the Brickline being closed on game days? Ya'll are getting too good at making mountains out of molehills.
The Brickline will run along Market where there are no public stadium gates, entrances or exits. So why would they close it down? The 20th Street cycle-track isn't part of the Brickline and considering the large amount of mall space between the track and the gates, I doubt very much there will be any interference or closures on it. No one has even said as much.
![]()
There is more than enough room for all of this to coexist. And if there was any place I would expect people to know better about assuming a rendering is a true representation of the final product (especially landscaping) it would be here.
The Brickline will run along Market where there are no public stadium gates, entrances or exits. So why would they close it down? The 20th Street cycle-track isn't part of the Brickline and considering the large amount of mall space between the track and the gates, I doubt very much there will be any interference or closures on it. No one has even said as much.
There is more than enough room for all of this to coexist. And if there was any place I would expect people to know better about assuming a rendering is a true representation of the final product (especially landscaping) it would be here.
- 2,929
Honestly, and I'm really trying not to be a d*ck here: If it's too much for you for there to be people walking into the stadium on the eastern and western sides while you're wanting to bike past it on the widened sidewalks on the stadium's southern side - the side which doesn't have any pedestrian stadium entrances - on greenway sidewalks that haven't been built yet - at a stadium that's still under construction - only on MLS game days, which'll mostly be at night anyways - all of this years from being complete, both greenway construction and games underway - THEORETICALLY - then you're probably too high strung to be in Downtown to begin with. I'm not kidding, this sounds like a diagnosis for something I'm sure is in the DST-5.