Brickline Greenway- Formerly Chouteau Greenway

sc4mayor · PostJun 10, 2022#7762022-06-10T16:19+00:00

addxb2 wrote: ↑
Jun 10, 2022
Really hope they prioritize the on-street routes. I can’t imagine being stuck between two fences for a quarter mile is going to be a tremendous user experience…

Would hate to be stuck on the trail with the wrong stranger.

I believe they are. The North Grand portion has received a $15 million RAISE grant and Edward Jones is providing matching funds for that, this portion is currently in design. The portion between Compton and MLS on Market will be open by the time the stadium opens next year.

I have no issue with using MetroLink rights of way, kind of feels like a bike highway almost. Definitely need companion options on denser city streets for sure, but I kind of like what they're going for here. I'm also going to assume that the connections in the vicinity of Grand won't be entirely finalized until we get a little deeper into MoDot's Future64 plans.

flipz · PostJun 10, 2022#7772022-06-10T18:41+00:00

I think they need to utilize the overabundance of streets in the city and make them green connectors between parks. Shut down a whole street or leave one way traffic with no parking. On these maps they color areas green that appear to be hundreds of feet wide but then the actual plans are just wider sidewalks and some trees on both sides of the street.

GoHarvOrGoHome · PostJun 13, 2022#7782022-06-13T15:52+00:00

I would love to see the median on Flora turned into a Greenway. Perhaps Reber Place as well, especially if you could get a ped crossing across the railroad

RockChalkSTL · PostJun 13, 2022#7792022-06-13T16:43+00:00

The median on Utah in Tower Grove South could use the same treatment between Grand and Gustine. There are already bike corridor signs down Gustine, and isn't Grand slated to get some street improvements for cyclists, etc.?

PeterXCV · PostJun 16, 2022#7802022-06-16T02:01+00:00

I just took the survey GRG posted about the greenway from Sarah to the Grand Metrolink. It got me thinking more about this spur and honestly I'm not sure how it's useful? I live nearby and was trying to think about when I would use it and I'm kind of drawing a blank here. If I wanted to get from the CWE to Grand Metro I think I would take Metrolink, not walk or bike. And there's nothing really to do in between Sarah and Grand along the path. I guess if they build the new apartment buildings next the station they'll have a shortcut to the Central West End? Can anyone explain to me why this will be useful?

chriss752 · PostJun 16, 2022#7812022-06-16T02:04+00:00

^I'd use it to get my walking in. I'm sure others would do the same. Although it's a bit pointless without a full on connection from Downtown to the CWE, but it's a start.

mjbais1489 · PostJun 16, 2022#7822022-06-16T13:56+00:00

PeterXCV wrote: ↑
Jun 16, 2022
I just took the survey GRG posted about the greenway from Sarah to the Grand Metrolink. It got me thinking more about this spur and honestly I'm not sure how it's useful? I live nearby and was trying to think about when I would use it and I'm kind of drawing a blank here. If I wanted to get from the CWE to Grand Metro I think I would take Metrolink, not walk or bike. And there's nothing really to do in between Sarah and Grand along the path. I guess if they build the new apartment buildings next the station they'll have a shortcut to the Central West End? Can anyone explain to me why this will be useful?

This specific portion by itself is really not at all useful. . Noone lives on this corridor.

But you can see why its useful when the whole things is completed with spurs & connecting lines. You have to have portions of any trail system that dont serve much use when taken out of context. Its a start - I'm not exactly sure why this portion is going first but it sounds like they are working on a few other small segments at the same time. I dont think the the segment they are going to complete near the MLS stadium will be at all useful by itself really.

debaliviere · PostAug 10, 2022#7832022-08-10T20:38+00:00

I had a chance to visit the Beltline in Atlanta last week - it was pretty amazing. Lined with apartments, restaurants, shops, cool art installations, nice landscaping, etc. It kind of felt like Grant's Trail on steroids.

Ideally, the Brickline would become something like that, although it might be pretty difficult, given where it will go. But perhaps the stretch that runs by Harris-Stowe could see some increased development as a result of it.

alexstl · PostAug 11, 2022#7842022-08-11T02:24+00:00

Tbh that area south of Market seems like it'll be the last hold out of industry around downtown. I think that even areas along Chouteau have a better chance of being apartmentified. I think that the best chance of a dramatic development along the greenway would be the land around council tower getting reclaimed from the renovation of the Market-40-FPP spaghetti.

stlexplorer · PostAug 11, 2022#7852022-08-11T03:30+00:00

Hi All - I don't recall the last time I posted on this forum and haven't kept up well with discussions, but have to chime in here. This greenway is a gigantic opportunity and looking at the renderings all I can see is fences (and jersey barriers? really?). I know separation is needed alongside metrolink tracks, but the point is to connect places, however little is developed on the Sarah to Grand corridor that is depicted. We already have desolate streets to walk or bike down in this area - I'd rather be there than on a 10' wide path between two fences!

Ebsy · PostAug 12, 2022#7862022-08-12T03:11+00:00

Fences are also another piece of infrastructure that cost money to maintain.

dredger · PostAug 13, 2022#7872022-08-13T20:26+00:00

In regards to comments to the last day or so, I truly think what MoDOT, City and powers do with the current Market/Forest Park Parkway/I64 mess is also the key to the Brickline success in that you can establish a corridor that interacts with everything. Get rid of this intersection, put Grand & FPP back to at grade intersection and incorporate the Brickline away from metrolink RoW and onto this stretch. Talk about an opportunity all around from expanding Harris Stowe, adding real estate for more housing, connecting jobs & tying current institutions and events/stadiums. Market and Forest Parkway truly needs to be a one continuous east west multimodal Boulevard. You already have the freeway, the fixed transit in metrolink and slowly been adding a bike specific corridor in part with Brickline

imran · PostAug 13, 2022#7882022-08-13T21:29+00:00

Having attended the public meetings on the new i64, the options being favored have forest park ave at grade with grand so it looks like that should happen

gone corporate · PostAug 15, 2022#7892022-08-15T19:07+00:00

^Godspeed their efforts here.

sc4mayor · PostOct 01, 2022#7902022-10-01T17:25+00:00

Brickline and Deer Creek Greenways awarded a total of $7 million in Federal Construction Funds
https://greatriversgreenway.org/brickli ... ion-funds/

$4 Million for Brickline Greenway: Page Avenue to Washington Avenue in the City of St. Louis

This $4 million grant will be used to support a half mile section of the greenway on Spring Avenue between Page Blvd and Washington Avenue. This will extend the reach of the Brickline Greenway from Fairground Park to Page Blvd that was awarded $15 million in Federal RAISE Grant (Rebuilding American Infrastructure with Sustainability and Equity) funding earlier this year.

imran · PostOct 01, 2022#7912022-10-01T19:30+00:00

As nice as this 4 million dollar half mile will be when new, anyone else wondering how sustainable these specialty finishes will be after 20 years when they come apart at the seams or are pulled up by utility company projects and never restored ?

LArchitecture · PostOct 01, 2022#7922022-10-01T20:53+00:00

imran wrote:As nice as this 4 million dollar half mile will be when new, anyone else wondering how sustainable these specialty finishes will be after 20 years when they come apart at the seams or are pulled up by utility company projects and never restored ?

If the right standards are set it would be fine. There is plenty of precedent how to maintain things correctly in other places like Indiannapolis and Atlanta.

I do see your concern though and this is STL so I to am concerned. The budget also seems low for anything specialty from recent cost estimates I have seen on similar projects.

addxb2 · PostDec 19, 2022#7932022-12-19T20:02+00:00

New report, procured by Greater STL, by Ernst & Young. Estimates strong return on investment and gives additional project hints.

https://greaterstlinc.com/news/downtown ... evelopment

East to West corridor. Appears they finally feel comfortable enough to show a single corridor. Clayton Ave -> MetroLink ROW -> Market.

Graph on projected construction jobs indicates bulk of construction will be 2025 - 2028.

LArchitecture · PostJan 18, 2023#7942023-01-18T01:32+00:00

Open house for the grand, cass ave and spring roads was this evening. Here are some images I took.

quincunx · PostJan 19, 2023#7952023-01-19T16:02+00:00

NextSTL - Revisiting the Chouteau Lake and Greenway Plan and Imagining a Traffic Free Corridor

https://nextstl.com/2023/01/revisiting- ... -corridor/

sc4mayor · PostJan 21, 2023#7962023-01-21T01:16+00:00

New bike and pedestrian paths are designed to help north St. Louis neighborhoods
https://news.stlpublicradio.org/economy ... ghborhoods

Construction will be done in phases, with the route along North Grand and part of Spring Street completed by the end of 2025, said T. Christopher Peoples, equity and economic impact director for Great Rivers Greenway, the organization leading the project. That part of the project received a $15 million grant from the Federal Highway Administration, he added.
...............
He expects the section between the Grand MetroLink station and the soccer stadium will be constructed concurrently, with the rest lagging by six to eight months. The overall goal is to have it completed by the end of the decade, Peoples said.
...............
The project won’t be completed for several years, Peoples said. Immediate next steps include Great Rivers Greenway opening a satellite office in north St. Louis, he added, “so that people in the community, when they have questions, concerns related to the development and how it’s moving forward, have direct access to us,” Peoples said.

LArchitecture · PostJan 21, 2023#7972023-01-21T02:01+00:00

sc4mayor wrote:New bike and pedestrian paths are designed to help north St. Louis neighborhoods
https://news.stlpublicradio.org/economy ... ghborhoods

Construction will be done in phases, with the route along North Grand and part of Spring Street completed by the end of 2025, said T. Christopher Peoples, equity and economic impact director for Great Rivers Greenway, the organization leading the project. That part of the project received a $15 million grant from the Federal Highway Administration, he added.
...............
He expects the section between the Grand MetroLink station and the soccer stadium will be constructed concurrently, with the rest lagging by six to eight months. The overall goal is to have it completed by the end of the decade, Peoples said.
...............
The project won’t be completed for several years, Peoples said. Immediate next steps include Great Rivers Greenway opening a satellite office in north St. Louis, he added, “so that people in the community, when they have questions, concerns related to the development and how it’s moving forward, have direct access to us,” Peoples said.

Reading between the lines but they mean to have Brickline completed by the end of the decade? If so very ambitious I like it.

quincunx · PostFeb 03, 2023#7982023-02-03T13:11+00:00

NextSTL - Richard Baron of McCormack Baron Salazar Wants to Set the Record Straight on the Chouteau Lake and Greenway Plan

https://nextstl.com/2023/02/richard-bar ... nway-plan/

framer · PostFeb 03, 2023#7992023-02-03T13:40+00:00

^Good stuff. Thanks for all the info.

TheWayoftheArch_V2.0 · PostFeb 03, 2023#8002023-02-03T15:53+00:00

Great piece, Q. A revelation to me that Slay is the one who halted this transformative project.

Brickline Greenway- Formerly Chouteau Greenway

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