Yep. Turns out being fully vaccinated does little to prevent infection from omicron, but it does a lot to prevent you from getting so sick that it hospitalizes you or kills you. So the best thing to do if you don't want to die from COVID is to get vaccinated and get boosted. And if you elect not to do those things, good luck.chris fuller wrote: ↑Jan 08, 2022Death From COVID-19 Very Rare in Fully Vaccinated Adults: Study
https://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/966205
New York City public schools reported a 44.5% attendance rate yesterday. More than 600,000 NYC schoolkids called in sick yesterday.
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https://www.nycenet.edu/PublicApps/Attendance.aspx
https://www.nycenet.edu/PublicApps/Attendance.aspx
You're suggesting that the CFR for people who have been vaccinated and contract omicron is as high as it is for people who are unvaccinated and contract omicron, and there is absolutely no evidence to suggest anything of the sort. You are literally saying that being vaccinated only quadruples your odds of avoiding an omicron infection and does nothing to reduce your odds of dying if you become infected, and the science does not at all back that up. Very, very, very, very few people who have been vaccinated and contract omicron are dying. The CFR for fully vaccinated individuals who contract omicron is nowhere near 1%. Deaths are occurring overwhelmingly amongst unvaccinated individuals. And the vast majority of deaths that happen amongst vaccinated individuals are occurring in the elderly population, or those with significant comorbidities. Point being, there are exceptionally few otherwise healthy people under the age of 65 who have been fully vaccinated who are dying from COVID. It's a virtually non-existent population. If you're 40-something individual in decent health who has been fully vaccinated and boosted, you're more likely to die in a car accident than you are to die of COVID.MarkHaversham wrote: ↑Jan 07, 2022Condoms are 99% effective, vaccines are only 73% effective against Omicron. So if 200mil Americans catch COVID each year and 1% of them die, that's 2mil deaths, while if they're all vaccinated that's only 500k deaths. A big improvement, but still a lot of deaths for our current social structure to handle, not counting increases in sick days, permanent mental or physical disabilities, etc.DTGstl314 wrote: ↑Jan 07, 2022Except that's not what's happening... the analog to condoms is vaccination. Most people are getting vaccinated. Even in the states with the absolute sh*ttiest vaccination rates, the majority of the population has at least one dose now, and there are only four states left where less than 50% of the population is fully vaccinated. The catastrophic health outcomes are occurring almost entirely in the unvaccinated population. And I'm pretty close to being completely out of f*cks left to give for unvaccinated people with a death wish who get COVID and die.MarkHaversham wrote: ↑Jan 07, 2022We're going to have to do something, because this is a deadly and debilitating virus that is circulating freely. You have to contain it, or you have to deal with the consequences (supply chain disruptions, short lifespans, widespread increase in mental and physical disabilities). Doing nothing and ignoring it will work out about as well as if everyone stopped wearing condoms a year after AIDS appeared.
You're also throwing a lot of people under the bus such as those who have compromised immune systems, or are too young to be vaccinated. You're stretching the truth about the demographics of catastrophic outcomes in order to provide moral justification for inaction, but it doesn't fit the facts.
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Chart 1
Boosted individual still have significant infection protection vs omicron, more so with moderna (their 3rd dosage is stronger then Pfizer)
Chart 2
Stunning high level and durable effectiveness of 3-shot vaccines vs Omicron hospitalization for people age 65+
Boosted patients see every little drop in effectiveness against hospitalization vs omicron even 10 weeks after booster.
Boosted individual still have significant infection protection vs omicron, more so with moderna (their 3rd dosage is stronger then Pfizer)
Chart 2
Stunning high level and durable effectiveness of 3-shot vaccines vs Omicron hospitalization for people age 65+
Boosted patients see every little drop in effectiveness against hospitalization vs omicron even 10 weeks after booster.
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First of all, behaving as though the suffering of the weak and disabled is nothing to worry about, as our government has been doing, is disgusting Nazi crap. Like, it's literally how the Nazi's reacted to the 1918 pandemic.DTGstl314 wrote: ↑Jan 08, 2022You're suggesting that the CFR for people who have been vaccinated and contract omicron is as high as it is for people who are unvaccinated and contract omicron, and there is absolutely no evidence to suggest anything of the sort. You are literally saying that being vaccinated only quadruples your odds of avoiding an omicron infection and does nothing to reduce your odds of dying if you become infected, and the science does not at all back that up. Very, very, very, very few people who have been vaccinated and contract omicron are dying. The CFR for fully vaccinated individuals who contract omicron is nowhere near 1%. Deaths are occurring overwhelmingly amongst unvaccinated individuals. And the vast majority of deaths that happen amongst vaccinated individuals are occurring in the elderly population, or those with significant comorbidities. Point being, there are exceptionally few otherwise healthy people under the age of 65 who have been fully vaccinated who are dying from COVID. It's a virtually non-existent population. If you're 40-something individual in decent health who has been fully vaccinated and boosted, you're more likely to die in a car accident than you are to die of COVID.MarkHaversham wrote: ↑Jan 07, 2022Condoms are 99% effective, vaccines are only 73% effective against Omicron. So if 200mil Americans catch COVID each year and 1% of them die, that's 2mil deaths, while if they're all vaccinated that's only 500k deaths. A big improvement, but still a lot of deaths for our current social structure to handle, not counting increases in sick days, permanent mental or physical disabilities, etc.DTGstl314 wrote: ↑Jan 07, 2022Except that's not what's happening... the analog to condoms is vaccination. Most people are getting vaccinated. Even in the states with the absolute sh*ttiest vaccination rates, the majority of the population has at least one dose now, and there are only four states left where less than 50% of the population is fully vaccinated. The catastrophic health outcomes are occurring almost entirely in the unvaccinated population. And I'm pretty close to being completely out of f*cks left to give for unvaccinated people with a death wish who get COVID and die.
You're also throwing a lot of people under the bus such as those who have compromised immune systems, or are too young to be vaccinated. You're stretching the truth about the demographics of catastrophic outcomes in order to provide moral justification for inaction, but it doesn't fit the facts.
What I said is that the vaccine quadruples your odds of surviving infection and does nothing to reduce your odds of infection, which is basically what you said above, so I'm not sure where your disagreement is.
What's the source for these?dbInSouthCity wrote: ↑Jan 08, 2022Chart 1
Boosted individual still have significant infection protection vs omicron, more so with moderna (their 3rd dosage is stronger then Pfizer)
Chart 2
Stunning high level and durable effectiveness of 3-shot vaccines vs Omicron hospitalization for people age 65+
Boosted patients see every little drop in effectiveness against hospitalization vs omicron even 10 weeks after booster.
Note that Chart 1 says you get 70% effective protection as long as you get a booster shot every month, trending toward 30% at 6 months. Seems a lot easier and safer to have people wear masks.
The vaccine more than quadruples your odds of surviving infection.MarkHaversham wrote: ↑Jan 08, 2022First of all, behaving as though the suffering of the weak and disabled is nothing to worry about, as our government has been doing, is disgusting Nazi crap. Like, it's literally how the Nazi's reacted to the 1918 pandemic.DTGstl314 wrote: ↑Jan 08, 2022You're suggesting that the CFR for people who have been vaccinated and contract omicron is as high as it is for people who are unvaccinated and contract omicron, and there is absolutely no evidence to suggest anything of the sort. You are literally saying that being vaccinated only quadruples your odds of avoiding an omicron infection and does nothing to reduce your odds of dying if you become infected, and the science does not at all back that up. Very, very, very, very few people who have been vaccinated and contract omicron are dying. The CFR for fully vaccinated individuals who contract omicron is nowhere near 1%. Deaths are occurring overwhelmingly amongst unvaccinated individuals. And the vast majority of deaths that happen amongst vaccinated individuals are occurring in the elderly population, or those with significant comorbidities. Point being, there are exceptionally few otherwise healthy people under the age of 65 who have been fully vaccinated who are dying from COVID. It's a virtually non-existent population. If you're 40-something individual in decent health who has been fully vaccinated and boosted, you're more likely to die in a car accident than you are to die of COVID.MarkHaversham wrote: ↑Jan 07, 2022Condoms are 99% effective, vaccines are only 73% effective against Omicron. So if 200mil Americans catch COVID each year and 1% of them die, that's 2mil deaths, while if they're all vaccinated that's only 500k deaths. A big improvement, but still a lot of deaths for our current social structure to handle, not counting increases in sick days, permanent mental or physical disabilities, etc.
You're also throwing a lot of people under the bus such as those who have compromised immune systems, or are too young to be vaccinated. You're stretching the truth about the demographics of catastrophic outcomes in order to provide moral justification for inaction, but it doesn't fit the facts.
What I said is that the vaccine quadruples your odds of surviving infection and does nothing to reduce your odds of infection, which is basically what you said above, so I'm not sure where your disagreement is.
Cite your source for claiming that vaccinated and infected individuals are dying at a rate as high as 1/4 that of unvaccinated infected individuals. Latest CDC data, pre-omicron, suggests 11-14 times survival rate increase for vaccinated individuals over unvaccinated individuals. And all available data on omicron shows that while it is considerably more contagious, it is also considerably less lethal than previous strains of COVID-19.
You are addicted to doom.
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^Mark, that's the most transparently ridiculous argument you've made yet. Fascism as an ideology and the NSDAP as a party didn't even exist in 1918. Your argument is an absolutely sublime example of why we used to think the first person calling someone a nazi had essentially admitted they'd lost the argument. Of course . . . that was before fascism came back into style, but maybe you see my point.MarkHaversham wrote: ↑Jan 08, 2022First of all, behaving as though the suffering of the weak and disabled is nothing to worry about, as our government has been doing, is disgusting Nazi crap. Like, it's literally how the Nazi's reacted to the 1918 pandemic.
In all truth, this thread is off the rails. I think it's past time that we limit it to postings of actual information and leave the hyperbolic Facebook grade insanity off.
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"Life Unworthy of Life" was an early Nazi propaganda initiative and murdering disabled people was an early prelude to the Holocaust. Many people were disabled survivors of Spanish Flu pandemic, similar to the wave disabled COVID survivors we're going to be dealing with in the next decade. And Walenski and the Biden administration are currently arguing that we don't need to worry about the pandemic because it only kills people with comorbidities (like 66 million Americans). I don't see how any reasonable person can fail to make the connection between Biden and Nazi policy. If people don't want to be compared to Nazis, maybe don't promote eugenicist policies?symphonicpoet wrote: ↑Jan 09, 2022^Mark, that's the most transparently ridiculous argument you've made yet. Fascism as an ideology and the NSDAP as a party didn't even exist in 1918. Your argument is an absolutely sublime example of why we used to think the first person calling someone a nazi had essentially admitted they'd lost the argument. Of course . . . that was before fascism came back into style, but maybe you see my point.MarkHaversham wrote: ↑Jan 08, 2022First of all, behaving as though the suffering of the weak and disabled is nothing to worry about, as our government has been doing, is disgusting Nazi crap. Like, it's literally how the Nazi's reacted to the 1918 pandemic.
In all truth, this thread is off the rails. I think it's past time that we limit it to postings of actual information and leave the hyperbolic Facebook grade insanity off.
Anyway, my prediction is that city+county will have >700 COVID hospitalizations in four weeks, assuming there's space. I guess we'll see how doomer I am.
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^You're putting an awful lot of words in other people's mouths. Perhaps you're letting your emotion cloud your judgment, which might make it hard to accurately read what everyone else is actually saying. But either way, I have no need to debate someone who insists on calling me a nazi. There's pretty much no arguing with that. You can't debate nazis. If someone actually is a nazi just stop them. If not, there's no surer way to end a conversation. If you can figure out where you went wrong and apologize we can talk, but I'll leave that up to you. It takes too much energy to stay polite when things get this thick. Nazi is a fighting word, not a talking word. I don't want to fight you.
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I quoted exactly who and what I was referring to when I compared the neglect of ill/disabled lives to Nazi eugenics, I didn't put any words in anybody's mouths. I did not call you a Nazi, so I don't know what you're referring to there. I don't think comparing people to Nazis is "fighting words", I think blithely encouraging mass death is. It's a problem that you think calling out malicious policies is a problem.symphonicpoet wrote: ↑Jan 09, 2022^You're putting an awful lot of words in other people's mouths. Perhaps you're letting your emotion cloud your judgment, which might make it hard to accurately read what everyone else is actually saying. But either way, I have no need to debate someone who insists on calling me a nazi. There's pretty much no arguing with that. You can't debate nazis. If someone actually is a nazi just stop them. If not, there's no surer way to end a conversation. If you can figure out where you went wrong and apologize we can talk, but I'll leave that up to you. It takes too much energy to stay polite when things get this thick. Nazi is a fighting word, not a talking word. I don't want to fight you.
I think a few posters here, and more than a few policymakers, are unwilling/incapable of connecting their proposed policies to their obvious outcomes. So people say "we should let everyone get a deadly disease and only unhealthy people will die", and I say "that's a lot of deaths, which is bad" and somehow that's controversial or offensive to people. "We should let millions of people die instead of wearing masks" is somehow mainstream. "It's okay as long as all the dead people are sick, disabled or have different political beliefs than me, please don't compare me to a Nazi that hurts my feelings."
A million Americans have died so far and the pandemic is still going strong! In 2001 we mobilized the military globally for 20 years over a few thousand deaths; today we have that many preventable deaths every week and complaining about it is considered uncouth. 2400 Americans died at Pearl Harbor and we're still observing it 80 years later; pretty soon we're going to let that many people die of COVID every day. Why are people defending this?!? Your government is trying to kill you, you should be mad!
Jesus stop comparing this to the Holocaust or Pearl Harbor. At this point, the vast majority of those who are in an ICU are there by personal choice. A year ago that was not the case, but things have changed a lot and vaccines are extremely effective.
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Right, but the problem is that diseases like COVID are only going to become more and more common as habitat loss forces animals into closer contact with humans and diseases start crossing the species barrier. It's only a matter of time until the worst case scenario plays out, and judging on how people have acted during the current pandemic... we're doomed as a species.DTGstl314 wrote: ↑Jan 08, 2022If that happens, it will probably be an extinction-level event and we won't have to worry about fighting over any of this anymore, because everybody will die. There will be no game plan, because it would not be possible to effectively counter such a scenario. Yesterday, there were 850,000 recorded new infections in the United States. The true number is probably double that, because a lot of asymptomatic infections probably weren't reported, in addition to a significant number of mildly symptomatic cases where the diagnosis was confirmed by home testing and not reported to any health agency. MERS has a case fatality rate of anywhere between 25%-65%, depending on whose data you're looking at. Do the math. There's no point in debating how we would handle a viral outbreak with a disease as contagious as SARS-CoV-2 (omicron) and as deadly as MERS, because it would not be possible to handle such a catastrophe. I wasn't being hyperbolic when I called it an extinction-level event. If what you postulate did actually transpire, it would decimate the human race in record time, and most of us would in fact die.Trololzilla wrote: ↑Jan 08, 2022Wonder what the game plan is once we get a mutation with the transmissibility of Omicron and the deadliness of MERS?
So there's no point in worrying about it, because if it really did happen, we're all f*cked and none of this matters anymore. It's like speculating about how we would deal with an asteroid the size of Rhode Island heading towards earth. We wouldn't. We'd just die.
"It's only a matter of time before the worst case scenario plays out" is just an opinion. We can plan for negative outcomes without assuming disaster is around every corner.
You are conflating indifference and acceptance. I am not indifferent to the truly innocent victims of COVID-19 (those who contract it and die from it despite taking all precautions that they could reasonably be expected to take), but I accept that there will be people who are fully vaccinated who are either elderly or have significant comorbidities who contract this illness and succumb to it despite their best efforts to avoid it. Those losses are absolutely tragic. But they are also inevitable. My choice not to get enraged about that is not the cause of any of those deaths, just as your righteous indignation over it hasn't saved a single one of those lives.MarkHaversham wrote: ↑Jan 08, 2022First of all, behaving as though the suffering of the weak and disabled is nothing to worry about, as our government has been doing, is disgusting Nazi crap. Like, it's literally how the Nazi's reacted to the 1918 pandemic.
Get off your high horse. And stop insinuating that people are like Nazis for disagreeing with you, it makes you look like a shrieking histrionic twit.
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India’s Third Wave Is Here. Don’t Fall For the ‘Omicron Is Mild’ Complacency.
https://science.thewire.in/health/india-third-wave-ongoing-healthcare-system-strain-disease-severity-complacency/
https://science.thewire.in/health/india-third-wave-ongoing-healthcare-system-strain-disease-severity-complacency/
Very good read.
Covid Will Become Endemic. The World Must Decide What That Means
https://www.wired.com/story/covid-will-become-endemic-the-world-must-decide-what-that-means/?utm_campaign=likeshopme&client_service_id=31209&utm_social_type=owned&utm_brand=wired&service_user_id=1.78e+16&utm_content=instagram-bio-link&utm_source=instagram&utm_medium=social&client_service_name=wired&supported_service_name=instagram_publishing
Covid Will Become Endemic. The World Must Decide What That Means
https://www.wired.com/story/covid-will-become-endemic-the-world-must-decide-what-that-means/?utm_campaign=likeshopme&client_service_id=31209&utm_social_type=owned&utm_brand=wired&service_user_id=1.78e+16&utm_content=instagram-bio-link&utm_source=instagram&utm_medium=social&client_service_name=wired&supported_service_name=instagram_publishing
What does "don't fall for the 'omicron is mild' complacency" mean?chris fuller wrote: ↑Jan 10, 2022India’s Third Wave Is Here. Don’t Fall For the ‘Omicron Is Mild’ Complacency.
https://science.thewire.in/health/india-third-wave-ongoing-healthcare-system-strain-disease-severity-complacency/
If a person is fully vaccinated and boosted and always wears a mask when they're in indoor public settings around other people, what more is it that they should they be doing?
Also, if you're vaxxed/boosted, based all presently available data, omicron is mild. That doesn't mean you shouldn't exercise caution or take active steps to avoid getting it, but if you do happen to get it, the good news is that you'll probably only experience a few days of feeling a little crappy and then be OK, as long as you're vaxxed/boosted. There hasn't been a large influx of vaccinated and boosted patients contracting omicron and filling up the hospitals. If you're unvaccinated, it's a different story.
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KSDK: New COVID-19 testing sites opening in St. Louis County, City this week
Story link above also has link to setting appointments at the end of the article.
Also from KSDK:
List: COVID testing sites in the St. Louis area
- Wednesday: Urban League of Metro STL, 1408 North Kingshighway (between Page and Dr King), 8AM-4PM. Drive-thru.
- Monday-Thursday: North County Recreation Complex, 2577 Redman Ave, 63136, 10AM-6PM.
Story link above also has link to setting appointments at the end of the article.
Also from KSDK:
List: COVID testing sites in the St. Louis area
Is there any type of official governmental site listing all the testing locations and hours?
The city site doesn't seem to have complete information, which would seem to be a critical duty for the local health department at this time. We just get various news stories about testing sites opening but obviously no update when they close or reduce hours.
https://www.stlouis-mo.gov/covid-19/dat ... ations.cfm
The city site doesn't seem to have complete information, which would seem to be a critical duty for the local health department at this time. We just get various news stories about testing sites opening but obviously no update when they close or reduce hours.
https://www.stlouis-mo.gov/covid-19/dat ... ations.cfm
Pandemic of the unvaccinated...
If you have been fully vaxxed/boosted and you are between 35-64 years old, the odds that you will contract an omicron infection that is so severe it lands you in the hospital is slightly higher than 1 in 10,000. Live your life, and take reasonable precautions (ie wear a mask when you go grocery shopping) to avoid becoming an infection vector.
I have zero sympathy for anyone who is eligible to get vaccinated (meaning they don't have any medical issues that would make vaccination dangerous) and yet willfully chooses not to who gets really sick and dies because of their own stupidity. None.
If you have been fully vaxxed/boosted and you are between 35-64 years old, the odds that you will contract an omicron infection that is so severe it lands you in the hospital is slightly higher than 1 in 10,000. Live your life, and take reasonable precautions (ie wear a mask when you go grocery shopping) to avoid becoming an infection vector.
I have zero sympathy for anyone who is eligible to get vaccinated (meaning they don't have any medical issues that would make vaccination dangerous) and yet willfully chooses not to who gets really sick and dies because of their own stupidity. None.
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It is absolutely not inevitable that these people die, that's a lie the government is telling you. That these were inevitable, that the victims had it coming, that they weren't fit to survive... this is Nazi thinking and you should not uncritically parrot it. I understand that Adolf Hitler could literally come back to live and conquer the world under the Nazi flag and you'd call me a histrionic twit for complaining about it, but that doesn't make me wrong. Instead of using ad hominim attacks maybe you can actually address topics you disagree with. This tragedy is absolutely not inevitable. To wit:DTGstl314 wrote: ↑Jan 09, 2022You are conflating indifference and acceptance. I am not indifferent to the truly innocent victims of COVID-19 (those who contract it and die from it despite taking all precautions that they could reasonably be expected to take), but I accept that there will be people who are fully vaccinated who are either elderly or have significant comorbidities who contract this illness and succumb to it despite their best efforts to avoid it. Those losses are absolutely tragic. But they are also inevitable. My choice not to get enraged about that is not the cause of any of those deaths, just as your righteous indignation over it hasn't saved a single one of those lives.MarkHaversham wrote: ↑Jan 08, 2022First of all, behaving as though the suffering of the weak and disabled is nothing to worry about, as our government has been doing, is disgusting Nazi crap. Like, it's literally how the Nazi's reacted to the 1918 pandemic.
Get off your high horse. And stop insinuating that people are like Nazis for disagreeing with you, it makes you look like a shrieking histrionic twit.
Of course we can, but the problem is that we decidedly are not planning for anything. We're not even planning for the disaster that is currently happening. It's been two years and we still don't even have a public mask standard. We haven't increased our mask production capacity. Both parties of government have spent all their time insisting that kids can't get sick at school.Ebsy wrote:"It's only a matter of time before the worst case scenario plays out" is just an opinion. We can plan for negative outcomes without assuming disaster is around every corner.
That's why it's only a matter of time before the worst case scenario plays out. Yeah, obviously if someone is driving around a corner it would ordinarily seem histrionic to claim that we're definitely going to hit the guard rail. But if the driver has spent two years asserting that it's impractical to touch the steering wheel, disaster becomes a lot more inevitable.
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Hold on, checking for any news or updates I may have missed....
Nope, still no vax requirement or vax test needed to cross the US southern border illegally (roughly 200k per month).
Please correct me if I'm wrong and if I'm correct please explain how this makes any sense.
Nope, still no vax requirement or vax test needed to cross the US southern border illegally (roughly 200k per month).
Please correct me if I'm wrong and if I'm correct please explain how this makes any sense.