urbanSTL

quincunx wrote:

sc4mayor wrote: ↑

Oct 27, 2021

^ Definitely.  Plus you can already ride MetroLink from the Danforth Campus to Richmond Heights (and plenty of other places).  MetroLink is a far more reliable and expansive service than a mixed traffic streetcar.

Sort of. Try going bowling via Metrolnik. Fing miserable. Not their fault of course. Just pointing out "it goes to Richmond Heights" is a generous statement.

Streetcar can be used as an extension of walking. Current MetroLink is not designed well for students and is not utilized much by them. Thus, the presence of WashU’s many private shuttles.

good riddance!! Now return the streets back to bike friendly streets! i.e. Delmar loop

ldai_phs wrote: ↑

Oct 27, 2021

Wish WashU got involved and took Loop Trolley down to Danforth Campus on to Richmond Heights. Would give their students a reliable transport option and they could phase out some of their shuttle lines.

I think that is good idea and would go one step forward as I consider Loop Trolley nothing  more than a tourist/development tool then transit.   But connecting with Danforth Campus does offer utility that goes beyond current use as well as connects Danforth to all the space that Wash U owns around Delmar Metrolink Station.  

So how about the following if leadership can get its act together

-  Has to be no fare box
- Forest Park Forever & Wash U split infrastructure cost to extend trolley past Art Hill to Danforth Campus
- Three way operating cost split - TDD taxes & Wash U chip in to operate.  Zoo-Museum District chips in to maintain/service trolleys (Vintage trolley/street cars).   
-Weekday service for students and park visitors & extended weekend evening/night hours.

if leadership can get its act together
ya right hahahaha
Post Dispatch: The Bottom Line: Convention center dispute is typical St. Louis gridlock

sc4mayor wrote: ↑

Oct 27, 2021

quincunx wrote: ↑

Oct 27, 2021

sc4mayor wrote: ↑

Oct 27, 2021

^ Definitely.  Plus you can already ride MetroLink from the Danforth Campus to Richmond Heights (and plenty of other places).  MetroLink is a far more reliable and expansive service than a mixed traffic streetcar.

Sort of. Try going bowling via Metrolnik. Fing miserable. Not their fault of course. Just pointing out "it goes to Richmond Heights" is a generous statement.

True.  But the 2 and 16 buses cover RH pretty well and the 2 would take you right past Tropicana.  The 2 runs right through Wash U (I think on Forsyth) and the 16 runs right past it on Skinker, eventually over to Bellevue and would take students (or anyone else) directly into downtown Maplewood.  It's really not that inconvenient if people saw buses in a better light.

Like SP said when someone was recently complaining that the Grand MetroLink station is out of the way...OK...so get on the 70 and it'll take you right there.  The two modes are supposed to be used in tandem.  I'm sure frequency could be better, but the routes are already there.  Not everything needs to be rail based.  

Buses can be used as an extension of walking...

I'm very familiar with the bus. The 2 sucks now. It runs once an hour.

We agree on that.

quincunx wrote: ↑

Oct 27, 2021

sc4mayor wrote: ↑

Oct 27, 2021

^ Definitely.  Plus you can already ride MetroLink from the Danforth Campus to Richmond Heights (and plenty of other places).  MetroLink is a far more reliable and expansive service than a mixed traffic streetcar.

Sort of. Try going bowling via Metrolnik. Fing miserable. Not their fault of course. Just pointing out "it goes to Richmond Heights" is a generous statement.

Going bowling via Metrolink is very easily done. Getting around Richmond Heights is another thing. 

Is this going to kill the trolley? Or will it limp on in a less than appealing state? This definitely puts it at a much greater risk of failing.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

mikenewell481 wrote: ↑

Oct 27, 2021

if leadership can get its act together
ya right hahahaha
Post Dispatch: The Bottom Line: Convention center dispute is typical St. Louis gridlock

Yep, would agree that my line is definitely laughable.  
The thing that I think is feasible is that Wash U has the muscle, the endowment and influence to pull it off if it wants to.  The problem is that it wouldn't have near the flexibility of current shuttles, buses.   I do think Loop Trolley has viability of a tourist line if it can extend further into Forest Park, work on extended Weekend schedule (thurs - fri) and somehow becomes a cost share between TDD & Zoo-Museum District-Preservation group to maintain trolleys.  Heck, for what Zoo Museum districts pays out in salaries over the various museums it could cover a good chunk of trolley operating expenses if they let  a few positions go unfilled over time..  

Was thinking of posting the bottom line commentary article to Convention Center thread as it usually/or I see it as a well written to point factual article to go to but at end of day just local media & business leadership noting more of the same when it comes to regional political players worried more about their fiefdoms rather than seeing region succeed.   

Mayor quote KSDK:

We all know that the Trolley is one of those projects that should've never been built,” said St. Louis Mayor Tishaura Jones. “It's one of those stains on our region that we have to fix."

I still think the owners/developers of apartments along the trolley line would find it in their best interest to chip in to keep it running. 

Do apartment-dwellers care about being able to take the trolley a few blocks down the street?

I'd like to see 10min frequency on every bus line in the metro before basically any other infrastructure additions, but of course they can't even get drivers for the current buses right now.

but of course they can't even get drivers for the current buses right now
that's what I thought too
Where are they going to get and KEEP drivers for this trolley??

I don't care how much people love to hate the trolley, I don't care how much people want to see this thing fail; I want to see this thing succeed, and I think there's a chance it could with a burgeoning corridor down DB and perhaps Delmar. 

Could they at the very least make it free for WashU students to ride?

sc4mayor wrote:Loop Trolley plots a 2022 return, but little has been decided
https://www.bizjournals.com/stlouis/new ... M5pWLRZJAA

Restarting this thing with limited operations is a huge mistake.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

SeattleNative wrote: ↑

Dec 09, 2021

sc4mayor wrote:Loop Trolley plots a 2022 return, but little has been decided
https://www.bizjournals.com/stlouis/new ... M5pWLRZJAA

Restarting this thing with limited operations is a huge mistake.

As long as I don't have to pay for it I'll be happy that my kids get to ride on it at least. Assuming it's running after the pandemic is over.

We turn down free money and still want to keep the thing going….

I’m all for wanting this thing to work…. But I feel like once we said no to the fed money it had to kill it.

KansasCitian wrote: ↑

Dec 09, 2021

I don't care how much people love to hate the trolley, I don't care how much people want to see this thing fail; I want to see this thing succeed, and I think there's a chance it could with a burgeoning corridor down DB and perhaps Delmar. 

Could they at the very least make it free for WashU students to ride?

Exactly, I get that it wasn't an ideal route.  But the constant rooting for it to fail is so weird to me, especially since if/when it fails, it'll be held up as an example to shoot down any other actual better rail/transit routes proposed in the future.

The Trolley Line never should have ended at the History Museum, run it to the CWE shopping/dining district and connect the areas, or run it to the Zoo/Art Museum where there are thousands of people there everyday that could use it to go from the Zoo to the Loop for dinner/entertainment afterwards without trying to find parking.  The History Museum is probably one of the least visited attractions in Forest Park.

But if it finally goes under for good, it'll just be used as an excuse to further hold back future projects.

^So weird.  I understand it and the route aren't ideal, but it can be a neat attraction and functional with the right program and a little more investment.  Rooting for it to fail is so short sighted and so St. Louis.  If you were in Nashville and this was running down one of their main entertainment districts, the same people hating it would say how cool it is and how "Nashville gets it"...  Turning down the federal dollars to restart it when all the infrastructure is in place was so dumb and so politically motivated.  I love it when leadership panders to the lowest common denominator.

If I were in charge of the Loop Trolley, I'd begin retesting the system in the spring and relaunch for passengers towards the end of May (start of summer). I would hope that by that time the trolley can run at full service. But starting with limited service is flawed in the long run. That's one of the reasons why it didn't work in the first place (along with wonky hours and high fare prices). 

The relaunch should focus on full service (or as close as they can get if the other trolley cars aren't ready yet) and defined hours of operation that don't leave out the busiest times on the Loop. As for fares, I'd suggest try bringing them down since the taxing district doesn't apparently bring in enough money to make it free at this time. Maybe later on down the line, but not right now. And if they really do need to do limited service, focus on the evenings since that's when the loop is the busiest. Don't run it during the middle of the day. 

They better get an operations plan up and out of the way quickly so they can turn to maintenance and capital improvement.

Drive down the route. It’s already not looking good in certain places. There will be critical failures in track, wiring, or pavement in the short to mid-term.

How embarrassing if they get it up and running to suddenly have a debilitating multi-million dollar breakdown…

The Hudson construction was not kind to the trolley infrastructure either.