urbanSTL

^ second what Sc4mayor stated.   Between Grand, Jefferson Ave and current N-S proposed route their is plenty of north south transit corridors/options that would better serve city residents to connect them w jobs and institutions.  Heck, Euclid corridor not a bad choice either if it has nothing to do with the Loop Trolley.   

Back to my soap box, Loop as  a tourist line, throw the small amount needed to keep it running and limit any idea of expansion to a one mile Forest Park expansion paid for w private monies.    But somehow I think the city is getting to have to put this on its shoulder to protect perception on future transit proposals and investments.  

On a different thought?   Who actually owns the Loop Trolley? and who would technically have to come up with the funds?  Undoubtly Loop Trolley assets are not even close in the value to grant since most of the dollars went to construction and the scarp value of rail & wire is considerably less.  

I believe FTA said East West Gateway owes them


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STL city and county signed on the dotted sign as co signers, like a parent on their child’s first car. One way FTA will get its money back is by withholding future allocated funding and in that case the entire region loses

dbInSouthCity wrote: ↑

Dec 29, 2021

STL city and county signed on the dotted sign as co signers, like a parent on their child’s first car.   One way FTA will get its money back is by withholding future allocated funding and in that case the entire  region loses

It's unfortunate that the government is incapable of doing anything on its own, otherwise they could avoid these sorts of traps.

sc4mayor wrote:

KansasCitian wrote: ↑

Dec 28, 2021

I just don't think that we're going to get any expansion for the trolley, no matter how much sense it might make, no matter how many more apartments/condos are announced along the line. 

I also think that this debacle, and the people dancing on its grave, will be a reason for why local public transit will lack support in the future. 

Sending a torpedo into the side of this project sends a torpedo into the side of any future project, too - for both the city and county. 

It doesn’t make any sense though.  Ask the transit dependent folks that live on the SE Side or the North Side if they think a mixed traffic heritage streetcar running on Hampton in the SW side is a good use of the region’s limited transit money.

Regardless of the trolley’s failures, city voters have passed a city-wide tax increase for transit expansion.  How do you think city residents would feel if we spent that money on this dumb trolley instead of legitimate N/S transit?  Talk about squandering your resources.

Find a million bucks or so to keep it running for another 4 years so we don’t have to pay the full amount back.  But expansion?  There are FAR better corridors for fixed rail transit than Hampton.

I'm not advocating for mass expansion with the Loop Trolley. I do think extending it to the Zoo or Science Center makes some sense - but locals would freak out about it even if it were private money.

I think you'll also see I mentioned that nobody is going to take the trolley from the Loop to a car dealership on Hampton.

I still just don't understand the people that want it to fail at all costs.

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People would rather be right than be responsible for something.

Could this be given to Forest Park Forever?

I think most would agree that the non-profit sector is a strength of the St. Louis region. I’ve personally never witnessed such a strong development and fundraising sector.

When it comes to raising for the public good… no one does it better than Loop Trolley destination, Forest Park Forever. (IMO)

If the regions best PR and development teams had the opportunity, I could see the Loop Trolley becoming as cherished as the Zoo or Science Center.

They should rename the line the Worlds Fair Trolley.  It'd surely spark tourist crowd curiosity better than the current name.  It might even help put the current vibe to bed from a locals standpoint.

addxb2 wrote:Could this be given to Forest Park Forever?

I think most would agree that the non-profit sector is a strength of the St. Louis region. I’ve personally never witnessed such a strong development and fundraising sector.

When it comes to raising for the public good… no one does it better than Loop Trolley destination, Forest Park Forever. (IMO)

If the regions best PR and development teams had the opportunity, I could see the Loop Trolley becoming as cherished as the Zoo or Science Center.

Whatever happens in the next year, The Loop Trolley needs a bold marketing strategy. The current stigma is stifling.


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I doubt Forest Park Forever wants their good name associated with the Loop Trolley, for good reason.

STLinCHI wrote: ↑

Dec 29, 2021

They should rename the line the Worlds Fair Trolley.  It'd surely spark tourist crowd curiosity better than the current name.  It might even help put the current vibe to bed from a locals standpoint.

This might actually make the most sense.  Recreate a Worlds Fair Loop: Delmar, DeBallivre, onto the Zoo, Forsyth, back up Big Bend to Delmar. 

Nextstl - What to do with the Loop Trolley?

https://nextstl.com/2022/01/what-to-do- ... p-trolley/

If we are going to end up tearing up the roads and tracks, could we consider BRT while we're doing it?

Run a BRT line down Delmar, from the circle near City Hall all the way down to Vandeventer, where it turns south until it hits MoBot. It'd be practical and symbolic.

It would run right through a chunk of SLU, making this thing accessible to two student bases, would go by Foundry and IKEA, and The Grove, and through two corridors that should see a ton, ton more buildup over the next decade. You'd also be connecting three entertainment districts, the Loop, the Grove, and the northern side of the CWE.

And then there's the simple fact you'd also be running a transit line right down the symbolic dividing line of St. Louis.

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I think practical transit routes run in straight lines. 

Perhaps so. It'd be nice if you could have a Vandeventer line in general that runs from the MoBot area to Fairground Park. 

I just think connecting those areas - WashU & SLU; Loop, CWE, and Grove - makes a lot of sense. 

How many more years would the Trolley need to run to be off the hook for the fed grants?

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How depressing.

You know I’m happy for KC’s success in the street car although it’s free but still successful. The trolly turned out to be a utter debacle & should have never happened


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I’m not jealous. A street car is just a bus for yuppy white people

JaneJacobsGhost wrote:I’m not jealous. A street car is just a bus for yuppy white people

Exactly what people say about light rail of all forms……

ldai_phs wrote: ↑

Jan 13, 2022

JaneJacobsGhost wrote:I’m not jealous. A street car is just a bus for yuppy white people

Exactly what people say about light rail of all forms……

Um, that’s definitely not what people say about Metrolink

I hope anything St. Louis builds will not resemble the KC Streetcar, to be honest.

I want a people mover, traffic or no traffic. I don't like that the KC Streetcar can get stuck in traffic just like any car or bus.

I hope St. Louis has dedicated lanes to provide a better form of transportation.

sc4mayor wrote: ↑

Jan 13, 2022

It’s almost like one city built their trolley as the spine of a larger transit system and the other city that already has 45+ miles of grade separated rail let some eccentric business owner build a pointless tourist trolley when that money could have been spent elsewhere.

We literally have a light rail system that connects downtown, the metro east, the airport, several universities and other attractions and we’re jealous over a piss ant streetcar in a lesser city.  Only in St. Louis!

Ebsy might be alone in being depressed by the KC streetcar having 1+ million riders.