I also want the Trolley back up and running though I think that the revival of the streetcar in the US is basically a fad. Kansas City is actually somewhat of an exception for having a successful one. Detroit and Cincinnati are having problems too.
- 805
A good point. If only we’d had some federal $ that could have helped with getting this thing some momentum upon its restart.addxb2 wrote:They better get an operations plan up and out of the way quickly so they can turn to maintenance and capital improvement.
Drive down the route. It’s already not looking good in certain places. There will be critical failures in track, wiring, or pavement in the short to mid-term.
How embarrassing if they get it up and running to suddenly have a debilitating multi-million dollar breakdown…
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
- 1,868
Throwing more money after this ill-considered pet project feels uncomfortably like negotiating with hostage-takers. I dunno if it's right or wrong, but it feels bad.
There seems to be something about the Loop Trolley that causes anyone responsible for it in any capacity to suffer a double lobotomy.
I did mentioned it too! Common sense spend $1.26M to operate for two years or pay back $38.5M to the Feds!!
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
- 1,868
If you vote in favor of doing something then you're responsible if it fails. If you vote no then its failure is someone else's fault. This is the axiom governing all American politics.JJ Taino wrote: ↑Dec 28, 2021I did mentioned it too! Common sense spend $1.26M to operate for two years or pay back $38.5M to the Feds!!
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
- 2,419
This situation is the most St. Louis thing imaginable, and a perfect example of how and why this region has tripped over its own feet in its painful-to-watch fifty-plus-year stumble onto its face.
The indignant attitudes here can be so infuriating.
"It'll never work! -- Ever!"
*the Loop is one of the hippest, cleanest strips of retail and restaurants in the city or inner-ring suburbs, with hundreds of apartments being built along the trolley line as I type*
"Psh! -- Ever! Do you hear me? -- Ever! I don't care what we pay to prove this point because I need my validation!"
Sent from my SM-F711U using Tapatalk
The indignant attitudes here can be so infuriating.
"It'll never work! -- Ever!"
*the Loop is one of the hippest, cleanest strips of retail and restaurants in the city or inner-ring suburbs, with hundreds of apartments being built along the trolley line as I type*
"Psh! -- Ever! Do you hear me? -- Ever! I don't care what we pay to prove this point because I need my validation!"
Sent from my SM-F711U using Tapatalk
- 9,563
I’m serious about this. The money is there. City is collecting $12,000,000 a year for transit and already has a $40,000,000 balance
- 2,419
The overall NIMBY and St. Louis overreaction to such a proposal would be deafening, killing the idea before a powerpoint presentation could ever even get to slide-one.
- 2,632
I don't know how useful a historic trolley down Hampton would be. I have been somewhat of a trolley apologist for years now and would much rather see that track looping around Forest Park connecting the major attractions to the existing system.
Low hanging fruit would be a loop with stops at: Base of Grand Basin at Lagoon, Art Museum at the Apotheosis, Zoo Entrance/Shakespeare at the Park on Government between Fine Arts and Washington Drive, The Boathouse on Government Drive right in front of trail connection to nature playscape, Pagoda Circle in front of the Muny, then Grand Drive right in front of Visitor Center. We can talk about other expansion to Steinberg/The Science Center/The CWE later but the loop proposed would give a lot of bang for its buck.
This could even be fairly cheap to construct as you wouldn't be limited to the street, you can build track adjacent to the street in a green field and even make the tracks grassy like below.
![]()
Of course once again, none of this works at all unless its free. Get Forest Park Forever on board and I think it's feasible, useful, and scenic AF.
Low hanging fruit would be a loop with stops at: Base of Grand Basin at Lagoon, Art Museum at the Apotheosis, Zoo Entrance/Shakespeare at the Park on Government between Fine Arts and Washington Drive, The Boathouse on Government Drive right in front of trail connection to nature playscape, Pagoda Circle in front of the Muny, then Grand Drive right in front of Visitor Center. We can talk about other expansion to Steinberg/The Science Center/The CWE later but the loop proposed would give a lot of bang for its buck.
This could even be fairly cheap to construct as you wouldn't be limited to the street, you can build track adjacent to the street in a green field and even make the tracks grassy like below.
Of course once again, none of this works at all unless its free. Get Forest Park Forever on board and I think it's feasible, useful, and scenic AF.
- 2,419
I wish that modern streetcars could be put into the existing system, but from what I have heard, the tracks wouldn't allow that.
I also wish Hampton wasn't so auto-centric. Nobody is going to be taking the trolley from the Loop to a car wash or car dealership.
I also wish Hampton wasn't so auto-centric. Nobody is going to be taking the trolley from the Loop to a car wash or car dealership.
- 2,056
This actually brings to mind something I've been wanting to ask Denis here...
If we were thinking about the best way to make the funds for the NFL lawsuit go the furthest... wouldn't putting those into a position where we could get a match from the Federal government for them? And in this case, Metrolink/Transit funds would be our best bet to turn the $500M into $1B? And is that doable?
If we were thinking about the best way to make the funds for the NFL lawsuit go the furthest... wouldn't putting those into a position where we could get a match from the Federal government for them? And in this case, Metrolink/Transit funds would be our best bet to turn the $500M into $1B? And is that doable?
- 805
Anything this long on those old trolley cars would be awful. They’d need to update to modern streetcars.dbInSouthCity wrote:I’m serious about this. The money is there. City is collecting $12,000,000 a year for transit and already has a $40,000,000 balance
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
- 9,563
Works just fine in a New OrleansSeattleNative wrote: ↑Dec 28, 2021Anything this long on those old trolley cars would be awful. They’d need to update to modern streetcars.dbInSouthCity wrote:I’m serious about this. The money is there. City is collecting $12,000,000 a year for transit and already has a $40,000,000 balance
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
The more local match the better odds at getting federal moneypattimagee wrote: ↑Dec 28, 2021This actually brings to mind something I've been wanting to ask Denis here...
If we were thinking about the best way to make the funds for the NFL lawsuit go the furthest... wouldn't putting those into a position where we could get a match from the Federal government for them? And in this case, Metrolink/Transit funds would be our best bet to turn the $500M into $1B? And is that doable?
Just get it to the zoo. What would this cost? $10M?
I don't see attitudes changing to make an expansion happen.
So many are so gleeful to see it fail. Congrats.
I don't see attitudes changing to make an expansion happen.
So many are so gleeful to see it fail. Congrats.
- 2,419
I just don't think that we're going to get any expansion for the trolley, no matter how much sense it might make, no matter how many more apartments/condos are announced along the line.
I also think that this debacle, and the people dancing on its grave, will be a reason for why local public transit will lack support in the future.
Sending a torpedo into the side of this project sends a torpedo into the side of any future project, too - for both the city and county.
I also think that this debacle, and the people dancing on its grave, will be a reason for why local public transit will lack support in the future.
Sending a torpedo into the side of this project sends a torpedo into the side of any future project, too - for both the city and county.
- 2,056
^Agreed. There is just way too much traffic on these Trolley hit pieces for local media NOT to do these stories... its quite sad.
Yes, not only is it doable and capital could probably be funded by a Forest Park Forever campaign.quincunx wrote: ↑Dec 28, 2021Just get it to the zoo. What would this cost? $10M?
I don't see attitudes changing to make an expansion happen.
So many are so gleeful to see it fail. Congrats.
Capture+_2021-12-28-11-33-52~3.png
More importantly this finally puts the spotlight on what the trolley really is and how it should be looked at the foreseeable future. Simply as a tourist attraction tying together/connecting one of the biggest regional draws (Forest Park), with a vibrant entertain district with the Loop and all conveniently tied in with transit access to the trolley/tourist line from metrolink.
City and Wash U could make a 4 day weekend fare free service happen from Easter through the holidays w mid winter pause by city committing Re store funds and Wash U donation to provide service over the next 5 years. Commit some museum district funds to maintenance. Run trolleys from Zoo to U City from say 9 am to 7 pm. shorten the route from History museum to U City and run additional 2-3 hours to capture restaraunt crowd.
Forget the zoo. Take it to North Euclid, connect the actual residents. Useful for bars/restaurants/nights out in a way that CWE/Loop Metrolink stations never will.
As someone who rode the St. Charles car from Uptown to Downtown for work...... this would be terrible. It works for New Orleans because the majority of riders are tourists or drunkards and also because the line was built when this was peak train innovation......riding that line going to work / getting off from work was a nightmare. Especially when riding a bike was faster and easier.....it's just New Orleans is so damn hot. It is not designed for "everyday" public utility in the 21st century. If I had to ride this route regularly, I would even recommend taking a bus......and I ***** hate busses in America.dbInSouthCity wrote: ↑Dec 28, 2021Works just fine in a New OrleansSeattleNative wrote: ↑Dec 28, 2021Anything this long on those old trolley cars would be awful. They’d need to update to modern streetcars.dbInSouthCity wrote:I’m serious about this. The money is there. City is collecting $12,000,000 a year for transit and already has a $40,000,000 balance
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
- 2,056
There is kind of a funny natural entertainment route here (if money is free)... Loop > Forest Park > Euclid > Grove > South Grand > Cherokee > Soulard > Downtown/Wash Ave
It doesn’t make any sense though. Ask the transit dependent folks that live on the SE Side or the North Side if they think a mixed traffic heritage streetcar running on Hampton in the SW side is a good use of the region’s limited transit money.KansasCitian wrote: ↑Dec 28, 2021I just don't think that we're going to get any expansion for the trolley, no matter how much sense it might make, no matter how many more apartments/condos are announced along the line.
I also think that this debacle, and the people dancing on its grave, will be a reason for why local public transit will lack support in the future.
Sending a torpedo into the side of this project sends a torpedo into the side of any future project, too - for both the city and county.
Regardless of the trolley’s failures, city voters have passed a city-wide tax increase for transit expansion. How do you think city residents would feel if we spent that money on this dumb trolley instead of legitimate N/S transit? Talk about squandering your resources.
Find a million bucks or so to keep it running for another 4 years so we don’t have to pay the full amount back. But expansion? There are FAR better corridors for fixed rail transit than Hampton.