We must be watching different construction sites because I run by the site every working day right when the workers arrive and can attest that they are diverse. There are men and women, white and black, Hispanic and Asian so whatever you're spewing is incorrect.throatybeard wrote: ↑Jul 07, 2021That said, a closer grocery would be at least one saving grace from this grotesque matchstick interstate motel looking pile of lumber. Built by developers obsessed in their public comments with crime, of which there was very little at the strip mall, who called a functioning strip mall blighted because there were AfAm businesses in it, and on whose consruction site you see only white laborers.
Then the developers shouldn't have used racialized language about crime and blight while they're displacing African American human beings.
The podium or base is pretty much irrelevant to the height of the load-bearing wood frame on top of it, at least from an engineering standpoint. It could be concrete or steel, a 10-story garage, 1-4 stories of retail and office, or nothing but a foundation. The only limitations in those cases would be leasing feasibility, fire safety, and elevator access (there's a height limit for hydraulic elevators, for example).symphonicpoet wrote: ↑Jul 07, 2021Sorry, I wasn't clear there. Five over two is a term I've heard thrown around a lot lately for what I used to call four story stick, but with a steel framed garage underneath. I don't mean to say you can make a wood frame structure infinite height, but I think the two stories of steel framing is a minimum amount of steel, for your twigrise not a maximum. (Otherwise downtowns would be a lot shorter than they are.) Mind you, I don't mean to say you could put a four story wooden hat on top of the Sears Tower, but I don't think having a five over two as a part of your structure would prevent you from having five stories of solid steel as another wing.urbanitas wrote: ↑Jul 06, 20216 stories is about the maximum with standard load-bearing wood framing. You can go taller with lighter floors and higher grade, bigger or more closely spaced studs, or with engineered wood products, but that added cost becomes counter-productive very quickly in all but a handful of markets.symphonicpoet wrote: ↑May 13, 2021^There's certainly no rule that you can't put more steel into a building than required. The 5 over 2 is a minimum, if I understand it correctly, not a maximum. And local laws may (and doubtless do) vary. (Stagehands and musicians are doubtless not great resources on local and national building code.)
Unfortunately, the retail space in question is much smaller than even the downtown Schnucks. Possibly one of their new "Fresh" concept stores would fit...SeattleNative wrote: ↑Jul 07, 2021
My hope for the grocer continues to be a Schnucks Culinaria type store that serves all residents from the surrounding neighborhoods and further (as the transit stop gives great access).
How big is the downtown schnucks space? The expo space is about 15,000 sq ft, which is roughly the avg Trader Joe’s size.urbanitas wrote:Unfortunately, the retail space in question is much smaller than even the downtown Schnucks. Possibly one of their new "Fresh" concept stores would fit...SeattleNative wrote: ↑Jul 07, 2021
My hope for the grocer continues to be a Schnucks Culinaria type store that serves all residents from the surrounding neighborhoods and further (as the transit stop gives great access).
You do realize that anyone who criticizes any accusation of racism now, no matter how absurd, is a de facto racist, right?PeterXCV wrote: ↑Jul 07, 2021I understand, though disagree with, the perspective that the strip mall should've stayed because it offered cheap rents to minority owned businesses. But I think it's in very bad faith to argue that anyone who wanted to tear down an ugly strip mall is racist.
The downtown Schnucks is around 27,000 sf, including the mezzanine.SeattleNative wrote: ↑Jul 07, 2021How big is the downtown schnucks space? The expo space is about 15,000 sq ft, which is roughly the avg Trader Joe’s size.urbanitas wrote:Unfortunately, the retail space in question is much smaller than even the downtown Schnucks. Possibly one of their new "Fresh" concept stores would fit...SeattleNative wrote: ↑Jul 07, 2021
My hope for the grocer continues to be a Schnucks Culinaria type store that serves all residents from the surrounding neighborhoods and further (as the transit stop gives great access).
Ah, okay. How big is the mezzanine? Feel like this location could go without that.urbanitas wrote:It's around 27,000 sf including the mezzanine.SeattleNative wrote: ↑Jul 07, 2021How big is the downtown schnucks space? The expo space is about 15,000 sq ft, which is roughly the avg Trader Joe’s size.urbanitas wrote: Unfortunately, the retail space in question is much smaller than even the downtown Schnucks. Possibly one of their new "Fresh" concept stores would fit...
The store footprint is 21,000 sf, so the mezzanine must be around 6,000 sf.SeattleNative wrote: ↑Jul 07, 2021Ah, okay. How big is the mezzanine? Feel like this location could go without that.urbanitas wrote:It's around 27,000 sf including the mezzanine.SeattleNative wrote: ↑Jul 07, 2021How big is the downtown schnucks space? The expo space is about 15,000 sq ft, which is roughly the avg Trader Joe’s size.
Thanks. Any idea how big the Whole Foods in CWE is? Or even the Fields Foods there? Maybe those are better for comparison?urbanitas wrote:The store footprint is 21,000 sf, so the mezzanine must be around 6,000 sf.SeattleNative wrote: ↑Jul 07, 2021Ah, okay. How big is the mezzanine? Feel like this location could go without that.urbanitas wrote: It's around 27,000 sf including the mezzanine.
To your earlier point Urbanitas, the Schnucks Fresh concept opening will be 18k sq ft. So that probably would work. Hopefully they have some interest in filling in the gap between their CWE and Clayton Road locations.SeattleNative wrote:Thanks. Any idea how big the Whole Foods in CWE is? Or even the Fields Foods there? Maybe those are better for comparison?urbanitas wrote:The store footprint is 21,000 sf, so the mezzanine must be around 6,000 sf.SeattleNative wrote: ↑Jul 07, 2021Ah, okay. How big is the mezzanine? Feel like this location could go without that.
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Couple comments:urbanitas wrote: ↑Jul 07, 2021You do realize that anyone who criticizes any accusation of racism now, no matter how absurd, is a de facto racist, right?PeterXCV wrote: ↑Jul 07, 2021I understand, though disagree with, the perspective that the strip mall should've stayed because it offered cheap rents to minority owned businesses. But I think it's in very bad faith to argue that anyone who wanted to tear down an ugly strip mall is racist.
Are there specific statements by the developer that you're referring to?throatybeard wrote: ↑Jul 07, 2021Then the developers shouldn't have used racialized language about crime and blight while they're displacing African American human beings.PeterXCV wrote: ↑Jul 07, 2021I understand, though disagree with, the perspective that the strip mall should've stayed because it offered cheap rents to minority owned businesses. But I think it's in very bad faith to argue that anyone who wanted to tear down an ugly strip mall is racist.
We're talking apples and oranges. If I recall correctly at a quarter to four in the morning my comment was relative to someone expressing shock that someone should use more steel than necessary. I'd gotten the idea the steel was for an amenity space, maybe. (Larger common rooms, a pool maybe, a gym, lots of glass . . . ) I entirely agree with you that wood is limited to five or maybe six stories. There's a reason I used to call it four story stick. But I was never trying to talk about wood. Just steel. My basic point was supposed to be there's nothing structurally stopping a developer from using lots and lots of steel if they want to do something they can't do with toothpicks.urbanitas wrote: ↑Jul 07, 2021The podium or base is pretty much irrelevant to the height of the load-bearing wood frame on top of it, at least from an engineering standpoint. It could be concrete or steel, a 10-story garage, 1-4 stories of retail and office, or nothing but a foundation. The only limitations in those cases would be leasing feasibility, fire safety, and elevator access (there's a height limit for hydraulic elevators, for example).symphonicpoet wrote: ↑Jul 07, 2021Sorry, I wasn't clear there. Five over two is a term I've heard thrown around a lot lately for what I used to call four story stick, but with a steel framed garage underneath. I don't mean to say you can make a wood frame structure infinite height, but I think the two stories of steel framing is a minimum amount of steel, for your twigrise not a maximum. (Otherwise downtowns would be a lot shorter than they are.) Mind you, I don't mean to say you could put a four story wooden hat on top of the Sears Tower, but I don't think having a five over two as a part of your structure would prevent you from having five stories of solid steel as another wing.urbanitas wrote: ↑Jul 06, 20216 stories is about the maximum with standard load-bearing wood framing. You can go taller with lighter floors and higher grade, bigger or more closely spaced studs, or with engineered wood products, but that added cost becomes counter-productive very quickly in all but a handful of markets.
I was just referring to the limitations of the load-bearing wood frame itself. The height limit is simply determined by how much weight can be supported by the wood bearing walls on the lowest level. Obviously, the more walls you have the less load each wall carries, but then that really limits your architectural room layout. This is part of the reason some of these stick-framed residential projects have so many studio apartments.
The Whole Foods is about 28,500sf and Fields Foods is 8,200sf, but I doubt the latter would be considered a "full service" grocer.SeattleNative wrote: ↑Jul 07, 2021
Thanks. Any idea how big the Whole Foods in CWE is? Or even the Fields Foods there? Maybe those are better for comparison?
And the landlord, Cullinan Properties, no longer has any need of a local political goodwill generator...BellaVilla wrote: ↑Jul 08, 2021Field's in the CWE is a convenience mart and nothing more. I wouldn't be surprised if were to close soon.
There was a STL Magazine article this spring that said 200 apartments are planned directly across Euclid form the Fields. Maybe that will help the numbers work for a convenience level grocer, goodwill or not.
The developer and the grocer should deliver on their promises. The people north of Lindell would love to be able to shop for groceries without having to cross that traffic sewer of a road but the Fields doesn't want to sell anything but boozewabash wrote: ↑Jul 09, 2021There was a STL Magazine article this spring that said 200 apartments are planned directly across Euclid form the Fields. Maybe that will help the numbers work for a convenience level grocer, goodwill or not.
Even if those apartments become reality, 200 apartments next door won't make up the difference when they have to start paying market-rate rent. But I suppose liquor sales to addicts at highly-inflated prices might do the trick.wabash wrote: ↑Jul 09, 2021There was a STL Magazine article this spring that said 200 apartments are planned directly across Euclid form the Fields. Maybe that will help the numbers work for a convenience level grocer, goodwill or not.
