There has got to be a way to get St. Louis' population growth back on track.
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^Perhaps an answer is getting certain people from cities with very high Costs of Living to relocate here, places like San Francisco where you need to be making $150K+ just to afford an apartment without roommates. Now, with the rise of Covid-19, many companies have been telling their people that they can work from home and continue to do so for as long as they remain with the company, with no loss of pay or benefits. Important here is that these employees can choose to relocate to work from home in another City while maintaining their "expensive City" salary. Many of us know Square to be one of these companies, and it is not the only one. Internet connectivity works just as well here as there.
Therefore, STL can position itself to this demographic with things they can easily do here that they can't do in their current city:
- Buy a 2,500 sq.ft. house. Plenty of a room for a home office in one of these.
- Afford having kids.
- Send them to the best private schools.
- Be able to save money and build wealth.
- Own a car -- and not be stuck in traffic jams all the time.
Or: Keep spending your entire $200K salary in San Francisco which barely pays the bills for your 1BR walkup that's also your office.
Therefore, STL can position itself to this demographic with things they can easily do here that they can't do in their current city:
- Buy a 2,500 sq.ft. house. Plenty of a room for a home office in one of these.
- Afford having kids.
- Send them to the best private schools.
- Be able to save money and build wealth.
- Own a car -- and not be stuck in traffic jams all the time.
Or: Keep spending your entire $200K salary in San Francisco which barely pays the bills for your 1BR walkup that's also your office.
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its really not helping that people in the 1985 and forward age group just arent having kids as much but thats a issue everywhere. colleges are going to be in huge trouble in the 2nd part of the 2020s with huge drops in college age kids dropKansasCitian wrote: ↑Feb 18, 2021There has got to be a way to get St. Louis' population growth back on track.
this strictly depends on people caring more about what they do vs where they live. I think most people care more about where they live vs what they do for work.gone corporate wrote: ↑Feb 18, 2021^Perhaps an answer is getting certain people from cities with very high Costs of Living to relocate here, places like San Francisco where you need to be making $150K+ just to afford an apartment without roommates. Now, with the rise of Covid-19, many companies have been telling their people that they can work from home and continue to do so for as long as they remain with the company, with no loss of pay or benefits. Important here is that these employees can choose to relocate to another City while maintaining their "expensive City" salary. Many of us know Square to be one of these companies, and it is not the only one.
Therefore, STL can position itself to this demographic with things they can easily do here that they can't do in their current city:
- Buy a 2,500 sq.ft. house.
- Afford having kids.
- Send them to the best private schools.
- Be able to save money and build wealth.
- Own a car -- and not be stuck in traffic jams all the time.
Or: Keep spending your entire $200K salary in San Francisco which barely pays the bills for your 1BR walkup that's also your office.
^ All of above is the answer.
Definitely need to focus first and foremost on existing population for workforce development (hint, Centene CEO has some legit points), establish some fare free north - south transit corridors touching on some of city big employment/institutional centers (take a page from KC streetcar whether its streetcar or BRT, or even improved bus service and plop it on Grand, Jeff or the N-S alignment), and finally as GC been noting promote affordability and seize the moment of freightway/logistics as per other threads
Definitely need to focus first and foremost on existing population for workforce development (hint, Centene CEO has some legit points), establish some fare free north - south transit corridors touching on some of city big employment/institutional centers (take a page from KC streetcar whether its streetcar or BRT, or even improved bus service and plop it on Grand, Jeff or the N-S alignment), and finally as GC been noting promote affordability and seize the moment of freightway/logistics as per other threads
Now that Trump is gone, we can expect a more immigrant-friendly national policy. St. Louis should grab hold of that and make a push for becoming a destination city for immigrants.
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First, I don't think chasing the population growth makes sense. Build a city people want to live in, and the population will grow.
That said, I really believe that one of the strongest impediments to St. Louis's population growth is something completely outside of its control: geography. St. Louis is not the sole "big city" for any geographic area. In Missouri, it obviously shares that title with KC, and despite the distance, the moment you cross the bridge into Illinois, Chicago is the big city.
When I say "the Big City" I mean cities that exist in the forefronts of the minds of the people in the surrounding regional communities. St. Louis is not the sole, or even dominant, owner of real estate in the minds of our regional population (excepting StL, StL Co, St. Chuck, and Jeff and Frankling and maybe SEMO). Anecdotally, I am from a rural Southern Illinois town. Most of my graduating HS class will be staying in the small town forever, but a considerable number of us were interested in living in a large metropolitan area. Despite the proximity to StL, Chicago was in forefront of our minds (yours truly excluded), StL was sorta an afterthought.
Compare that with KC which is the sole big city for eastern Kansas and South Eastern Nebraska. Or Minneapolis which has no competition for Minnesota and the Dakotas. Indianapolis is the only game in Indiana.
Which is to say that drawing people (usually young people) from outlying communities is a reliable way to get fresh bodies into your metro area, thereby setting some kind of baseline for growth. Unfortunately, StL isn't in a great position to do this.
That said, I really believe that one of the strongest impediments to St. Louis's population growth is something completely outside of its control: geography. St. Louis is not the sole "big city" for any geographic area. In Missouri, it obviously shares that title with KC, and despite the distance, the moment you cross the bridge into Illinois, Chicago is the big city.
When I say "the Big City" I mean cities that exist in the forefronts of the minds of the people in the surrounding regional communities. St. Louis is not the sole, or even dominant, owner of real estate in the minds of our regional population (excepting StL, StL Co, St. Chuck, and Jeff and Frankling and maybe SEMO). Anecdotally, I am from a rural Southern Illinois town. Most of my graduating HS class will be staying in the small town forever, but a considerable number of us were interested in living in a large metropolitan area. Despite the proximity to StL, Chicago was in forefront of our minds (yours truly excluded), StL was sorta an afterthought.
Compare that with KC which is the sole big city for eastern Kansas and South Eastern Nebraska. Or Minneapolis which has no competition for Minnesota and the Dakotas. Indianapolis is the only game in Indiana.
Which is to say that drawing people (usually young people) from outlying communities is a reliable way to get fresh bodies into your metro area, thereby setting some kind of baseline for growth. Unfortunately, StL isn't in a great position to do this.
I mean, more or less. The only reason I am in St. Louis is because my job brought me here. I mean no disrespect, but there are many other places in the world I would have moved to if I could perform my job from anywhere.dbInSouthCity wrote: ↑Feb 18, 2021gone corporate:
this strictly depends on people caring more about what they do vs where they live. I think most people care more about where they live vs what they do for work.
This is true for a certain class of professionals that I believe are important for the city: academics, doctors, executives, etc. These may be a minority in terms of bodies, but they are not in terms of expenditure and keep a lot of the service and cultural industry of the city going.
I do not understand this sequence of sentences.BellaVilla wrote: ↑Feb 18, 2021First, I don't think chasing the population growth makes sense. Build a city people want to live in, and the population will grow.
“Don’t be Tulsa and pay people to love to your city. Build an attractive city (Nashville, Portland) that draws people and then businesses in. “ I think she meanskipfilet wrote:I do not understand this sequence of sentences.BellaVilla wrote: ↑Feb 18, 2021First, I don't think chasing the population growth makes sense. Build a city people want to live in, and the population will grow.
Right. It's just that the second statement describes a means to achieve the end in the first statement. I think I get it now.ldai_phs wrote: ↑Feb 18, 2021“Don’t be Tulsa and pay people to love to your city. Build an attractive city (Nashville, Portland) that draws people and then businesses in. “ I think she meanskipfilet wrote:I do not understand this sequence of sentences.BellaVilla wrote: ↑Feb 18, 2021First, I don't think chasing the population growth makes sense. Build a city people want to live in, and the population will grow.
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Sorry, I wasn't clear. I just think that the strict goal of population growth is foolish because it can be achieved without actually addressing the core issues your city or region has. The goals should be to address your issues effectively i.e. public transit infrastructure, equitable funding for munis and schools, social justice reforms, criminal justice reform, etc. and hope population growth flows from that.
Not shabby. December loses were revised down to just 500 and about 5,300 jobs added in January. All seasonally adjusted. We’re about 59.5% recovered, progress from 56.7% in December.
It’s fairly clear that closing/opening regs are high impact at this point. If governor/local leaders relaxed rules, they’re probably further in recovery.
Indy: 72.3% (no recovery progress since December)
Kc: 73% (progress from 69.4%)
Nash: 69.7% (progress from 66.8%)
Pittsburgh: 59.8% (progress from 54.7%)
Denver: 54.7% (progress from 45.6%)
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February update.
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Again, not too bad. January numbers were revised up by 500 to 5,800 added, which helps offset the 400 lost in February.
YOY
Raleigh: -3.02%
Charlotte: -3.80%
Indy: -4.01%
Kc: -4.20%
Nash: -4.22%
Denver: -5.33%
Stl: -5.35%
Cincinnati: -5.53%
Baltimore: -5.97%
Cleveland: -6.95%
Milwaukee: -6.98%
Pitt: -7.28%
Detroit: -7.54%
Chi: -8.53%
SD: -8.55%
Again, not too bad. January numbers were revised up by 500 to 5,800 added, which helps offset the 400 lost in February.
YOY
Raleigh: -3.02%
Charlotte: -3.80%
Indy: -4.01%
Kc: -4.20%
Nash: -4.22%
Denver: -5.33%
Stl: -5.35%
Cincinnati: -5.53%
Baltimore: -5.97%
Cleveland: -6.95%
Milwaukee: -6.98%
Pitt: -7.28%
Detroit: -7.54%
Chi: -8.53%
SD: -8.55%
March numbers will be telling. Pre-COVID, Stl lagged national growth. Post-COVID, Stl has matched or done slightly better.
If we match the March jump nationally, 14,000 St. Louisans are heading back to work.
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If we match the March jump nationally, 14,000 St. Louisans are heading back to work.
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Bureau of labor statistics released data for March 2021.
STL added 15,000 non-farm jobs from Feb to March. -4.6% yoy
City: 12-month % Change in Employment for March 2021
Austin:-1.3
Tampa: -2.1
KC: -2.6
Omaha:-2.8
Nashville: -2.8
Indianapolis: -3.0
Atlanta: -4.4
Denver:-4.4
STL:-4.6
Cincinatti: -4.6
Cleveland: -5.8
Pittsburgh: -6.5
This graph shows total employment in the STL metro from 1990-2021.
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Professional, Scientific, and Technical Services
STL. Big drop when COVID hit with no recovery. Continues to decline.
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Kansas City. Small covid drop but back to record highs.
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Nashville. Almost as if nothing happened. The massive Oracle announcement will take them to 80,000+
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Indianapolis. Seems like their tech growth was slowing pre-covid. Still down.
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Cincinatti. Same situation as STL
![]()
Cleveland. Same sitation as STL, maybe a bit better.
![]()
STL added 15,000 non-farm jobs from Feb to March. -4.6% yoy
City: 12-month % Change in Employment for March 2021
Austin:-1.3
Tampa: -2.1
KC: -2.6
Omaha:-2.8
Nashville: -2.8
Indianapolis: -3.0
Atlanta: -4.4
Denver:-4.4
STL:-4.6
Cincinatti: -4.6
Cleveland: -5.8
Pittsburgh: -6.5
This graph shows total employment in the STL metro from 1990-2021.
Professional, Scientific, and Technical Services
STL. Big drop when COVID hit with no recovery. Continues to decline.
Kansas City. Small covid drop but back to record highs.
Nashville. Almost as if nothing happened. The massive Oracle announcement will take them to 80,000+
Indianapolis. Seems like their tech growth was slowing pre-covid. Still down.
Cincinatti. Same situation as STL
Cleveland. Same sitation as STL, maybe a bit better.
Interesting. I wonder what that's about.ldai_phs wrote: ↑Apr 18, 2021STL tech employment has taken a sizable drop.
Okay, thanks. Just for clarification, we're talking this: https://www.bls.gov/iag/tgs/iag54.htm Right?
Correct. It includes for example design and marketing jobs that got absolutely by the pandemic.
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I hadn't looked at this before. I'm glad one of their goals is "Finish the Brickline". I love GRG but I'm continually frustrated by how slow everything seems to go. I know its complicated stuff and you want neighborhood feedback, but I've been to some of those sessions. Everyone says the same thing over & over again. Eventually you just have to build some stuff. Let the experts build the stuff, they know better than I what things should look like.addxb2 wrote: ↑May 05, 2021https://www.greaterstlinc.com/jobsplan/
Let’s get to work!
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The Hodiament Tracks has been unbelievably frustrating to me - having a few listening sessions is great, but the best thing for those neighborhoods would be to have an actual greenway. Spending an extra 3 years making sure you hear every concern is crazy to me.
Makes sense now. Thanks.kipfilet wrote: ↑May 06, 2021Correct. It includes for example design and marketing jobs that got absolutely by the pandemic.
April numbers are out: https://www.bls.gov/eag/eag.mo_stlouis_msa.htm