This can probably move to the crime thread in the sub forum above, but doing anything other than roundly condemning the increased lawlessness that has been accelerating over the last 14 months is doing more of a disservice to those involved than anything else. It's well past time to enforce laws in the city.
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I see numerous cars with paper temp plates (expired) or no plate at all driving all over city and county
Many times those are the ones speeding/driving recklessly
Why not stop them/or get them while they are parked and tow them to the city/county car pound
Many times those are the ones speeding/driving recklessly
Why not stop them/or get them while they are parked and tow them to the city/county car pound
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^ we can fix this issue be allowing taxes to be rolled into the loan when the car is bought but Missouri legislature is busy solving none existent problems like transgender kids in sports
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^ that would solve the temp plates problem but not the expired tags problem.
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Expired plates are a $24.50 a year issue. Expired temp plates are $1700 issue on a $20,000 car. And I don’t notice many expired plates, half the time people get the renewed but never put the new stickers on. I’ve had mine in the glove compartment since feb 1 (mostly because I’ve been traveling for work ever since and rarely drive)
A lot of those residential lots downtown (like 16th and Locust), the percentage of unexpired Missouri plates is like 30-40%.
A few expired temp tags. Lots of Illinois and other states, most of which are expired. There's a Virginia "dealer transport plate" on a car along Washington Ave at 11th. That guy must be taking one really long pit stop while transporting that car. Those people are costing us more than $24 a year.
Is the parking division not permitted to ticket the expired plates? It can't be legal to park a car with expired tags on a public street.
A few expired temp tags. Lots of Illinois and other states, most of which are expired. There's a Virginia "dealer transport plate" on a car along Washington Ave at 11th. That guy must be taking one really long pit stop while transporting that car. Those people are costing us more than $24 a year.
Is the parking division not permitted to ticket the expired plates? It can't be legal to park a car with expired tags on a public street.
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i haven't been there in a year and a half, but i noticed a ton of expired tags. i doubt it's gotten any better.dbInSouthCity wrote: ↑May 26, 2021Expired plates are a $24.50 a year issue. Expired temp plates are $1700 issue on a $20,000 car. And I don’t notice many expired plates, half the time people get the renewed but never put the new stickers on. I’ve had mine in the glove compartment since feb 1 (mostly because I’ve been traveling for work ever since and rarely drive)
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This is an extremely inaccurate statement. You have to pay personal property tax in StL (MO?) annually to have a legally registered vehicle. I have a 7 year old mid-range SUV that cost $450 to pay the personal property tax in 2020.dbInSouthCity wrote: ↑May 26, 2021Expired plates are a $24.50 a year issue. Expired temp plates are $1700 issue on a $20,000 car. And I don’t notice many expired plates, half the time people get the renewed but never put the new stickers on. I’ve had mine in the glove compartment since feb 1 (mostly because I’ve been traveling for work ever since and rarely drive)
Edit: Also, the assessor's office has lost its damn mind.
He's talking about folks riding on temp tags in order to avoid paying sales tax on a purchased car, not personal property taxes. You don't get permanent plates for a new car unless you pay the tax in full.newstl2020 wrote: ↑May 26, 2021This is an extremely inaccurate statement. You have to pay personal property tax in StL (MO?) annually to have a legally registered vehicle. I have a 7 year old mid-range SUV that cost $450 to pay the personal property tax in 2020.dbInSouthCity wrote: ↑May 26, 2021Expired plates are a $24.50 a year issue. Expired temp plates are $1700 issue on a $20,000 car. And I don’t notice many expired plates, half the time people get the renewed but never put the new stickers on. I’ve had mine in the glove compartment since feb 1 (mostly because I’ve been traveling for work ever since and rarely drive)
Edit: Also, the assessor's office has lost its damn mind.
$1700 actually seems low - the MO DOR sales tax calculator shows more than that for my location:
Source: https://sa.dor.mo.gov/mv/stc/Net Price: $20,000.00
Local Tax Due (5.013%)
$1,002.60
State Tax Due (4.225%)
$845.00
Total Tax Due (9.238%)
$1,847.60
-RBB
The expired plates issue is tricky. The Missouri vehicle property tax is one of the most regressive explicit taxes I have ever seen. Think of how it lower income people who need to drive to work in a city with subpar public transit such as St. Louis. I always interpreted the city's lack of enforcement for expired plates/tags as an implicit acknowledgement of this issue by the authorities, but maybe I have too much of a benign view on the subject.
This absolutely does not excuse the fact that any other type of traffic law goes unenforced.
This absolutely does not excuse the fact that any other type of traffic law goes unenforced.
The regressive tax is coercing everyone to drive.
Shifting the public burden of driving to other forms of taxation would be quite unfair and add to the already big pile of driving subsidies.
Shifting the public burden of driving to other forms of taxation would be quite unfair and add to the already big pile of driving subsidies.
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This is not accurate.rbb wrote: ↑May 26, 2021He's talking about folks riding on temp tags in order to avoid paying sales tax on a purchased car, not personal property taxes. You don't get permanent plates for a new car unless you pay the tax in full.newstl2020 wrote: ↑May 26, 2021This is an extremely inaccurate statement. You have to pay personal property tax in StL (MO?) annually to have a legally registered vehicle. I have a 7 year old mid-range SUV that cost $450 to pay the personal property tax in 2020.dbInSouthCity wrote: ↑May 26, 2021Expired plates are a $24.50 a year issue. Expired temp plates are $1700 issue on a $20,000 car. And I don’t notice many expired plates, half the time people get the renewed but never put the new stickers on. I’ve had mine in the glove compartment since feb 1 (mostly because I’ve been traveling for work ever since and rarely drive)
Edit: Also, the assessor's office has lost its damn mind.
-RBB
Regressive as the personal property tax may be (believe me I hate it and think it is completely misaligned and makes no sense and the assessors office is out of its mind lately with regard to valuations) it is the law. So we either need to change the laws, or enforce the laws. If you can't pay what is necessary by law to be able to drive a car, you should not be able to drive a car. That is not the current case in St. Louis and is resulting in way more than expired plates on the road. So many of our criminal problems are cascading effects from the city police not enforcing even the most basic of laws. It has to stop.
We should probably either move to the crime thread or get back to "the state of downtown," however, even though the state of downtown right now is...well...a lot of this past 8pm.
The property tax on cars make a lot of sense and is quite appropriate. Who should pay for emergency response to car wrecks? And the other ways local government is burdened with car-related costs to society.
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Cool then we agree it needs to be enforced and people without legally registered and or expired vehicles need to face consequences. Awesome.quincunx wrote: ↑May 26, 2021The property tax on cars make a lot of sense and is quite appropriate. Who should pay for emergency response to car wrecks? And the other ways local government is burdened with car-related costs to society.
Okay, here's one:newstl2020 wrote: ↑May 26, 2021We should probably either move to the crime thread or get back to "the state of downtown," however, even though the state of downtown right now is...well...a lot of this past 8pm.
https://www.kmov.com/news/cars-hit-afte ... _id=676556
"Police said shots were fired at 10 Spruce Street near Wheelhouse and Start Bar before 9:30 p.m. A News 4 photographer saw one car with at least seven bullet holes."
If KMOV would just stop being such trolls at reporting this nonsense everyone could safely enjoy downtown and life would be peachy.</s>
Back to the office this week. Downtown looks livelier than I expected. Some business casualties but good to see some new stuff popped up during Covid (coffeeshop by mansion house). Park Avenue Coffee is moving to the former Starbucks by the Met Plaza, which is great for me but sounds like a weird business decision as they already have another location downtown (unless they are moving).
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Mayor Jones with a plan to address downtown issues. And it’s not just tossing out some concrete barriers .
Excellent news! Now if she would rethink the whole defunding the police, we'll be in business.
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No such thing happened and if the PD hires the 50 open positions it has now, I bet the city would gladly create more, since 70% of the money from the 98 open positions that were “eliminated” never went anywhere. I’m surprised nobody did the math on just saving $2.4 million in salary from “eliminating” 98 positions
The gunfire is nonstop.OnTheEdge wrote: ↑May 26, 2021Okay, here's one:newstl2020 wrote: ↑May 26, 2021We should probably either move to the crime thread or get back to "the state of downtown," however, even though the state of downtown right now is...well...a lot of this past 8pm.
https://www.kmov.com/news/cars-hit-afte ... _id=676556
"Police said shots were fired at 10 Spruce Street near Wheelhouse and Start Bar before 9:30 p.m. A News 4 photographer saw one car with at least seven bullet holes."
If KMOV would just stop being such trolls at reporting this nonsense everyone could safely enjoy downtown and life would be peachy.</s>
I've been awoken by a burst of gunfire just outside the window twice in the past few weeks, and this is in a quiet part of downtown. I don't bother calling the police, because what's even accomplished?
I think we can assume there are many hundreds, possibly even thousands of incidents of gunfire downtown per year. Luckily most of it is probably morons firing out of car windows, but still, it's insane how much gunfire is downtown.
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That's great news re: Park Avenue.kipfilet wrote: ↑May 26, 2021Back to the office this week. Downtown looks livelier than I expected. Some business casualties but good to see some new stuff popped up during Covid (coffeeshop by mansion house). Park Avenue Coffee is moving to the former Starbucks by the Met Plaza, which is great for me but sounds like a weird business decision as they already have another location downtown (unless they are moving).
What's the coffee shop by Mansion House?
It might actually be Gentry's Landing (not sure where Mansion House ends and GL begins...). It's called Cafe de Blaire, they also make their own ice cream (haven't tried it, might give it a shot today):
https://www.google.com/maps/place/Cafe+ ... 90.1865781
https://www.google.com/maps/place/Cafe+ ... 90.1865781
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Thanks - just checked out their Facebook page. Looks great!kipfilet wrote: ↑May 27, 2021It might actually be Gentry's Landing (not sure where Mansion House ends and GL begins...). It's called Cafe de Blaire, they also make their own ice cream (haven't tried it, might give it a shot today):
https://www.google.com/maps/place/Cafe+ ... 90.1865781
I think that's great for the short term. Hasn't leadership already gotten feedback for long-term safety in Downtown? They are supposed to be implementing a multi-modal plan for Downtown/Downtown West to slow vehicles and make it safer for pedestrians and cyclists. Or, wait, do we need more feedback?
The extra patrols are a great start to alleviate the immediate issues. I just mean, the clock has been ticking for years now.
The extra patrols are a great start to alleviate the immediate issues. I just mean, the clock has been ticking for years now.