urbanSTL

symphonicpoet wrote: ↑

Feb 19, 2021

^Even if NGA doesn't create new jobs just maintaining the workforce it has will draw new people. Local folks retire. Several of the folks in Town and Country Symphony are recently retired NGA sorts. And at least one of the fellows I sometimes game with is current NGA nearing retirement age. Whomsoever fills their shoes could well be from outside the area and they might look at a loft convenient to the campus. And as you say, other organizations moving in to chase GeoInt capital will most likely bring new job openings with them. I'd guess Chris Fuller has a point.

NGA is going thru a pretty big turnover at the moment (or for the last 2 years I would say) hiring a lot but a pretty good amount of retirements. As others said I don’t think the headcount will change much but it’s a younger crowd. A lot of transplants from out of state.

I know a few that live at the Steelyard and others that live downtown already. I’m sure once the office moves there will be some that move into these new apartments going in or being remodeled in downtown west.

^ I felt old at work for the first time when we had a young professionals meet up with our locust office (who all work primarily outside the office and at the NGA building ) and everyone looked 10 years younger then me.

(This was early December 2019 and I was 33 at the time about to be 34)

You never really feel old until you realize that your doctor is younger than you.

symphonicpoet wrote: ↑

Feb 19, 2021

urbanitas wrote: ↑

Feb 19, 2021

symphonicpoet wrote: ↑

Feb 19, 2021

^Isn't NGA one of the anchors of that innovation district? I think it all plays together. Harmonic amplification. There's some business buzzword that bounces out of my wife's office every now and then that comes to mind.

You mean the NGA West HQ itself, or their incubator space on Washington Ave.?  

Either way, we don't know what the anchors are beyond Square itself, as the Squares haven't defined their District or it's borders yet.

I'm not really referring to either Square or NGA itself, but rather the growing district around them. Different folks give it different names and it's not necessarily terribly formal yet. But at its origin Cortex wasn't necessarily terribly formal either. It took a while before the major backers decided on what to call it (Bio Belt was an early contender, as I recall) or what the official boundaries should be. The Geo Intelligence district is doubtless at an earlier stage than Cortex was ten years ago, but I expect it will move much faster, thanks to the government bucks and the sense of certainty that goes with them. I think it already is going faster. The SCIF space at the Globe building seems like a clear and fairly new outgrowth. (It's doubtless their promotional materials that have cemented the marketing names "Gigabyte Corridor" and "GeoInt Village" into my head. But the names are far less important here than the fact that there's a cluster of stuff . . . anchored by NGA, Square, T-Rex, and arguably Globe.)

And sure, it's a long hike from Butler Brothers to Globe or T-Rex. (Or even NGA.) But it's a really short drive. And I expect that's something the developers are aware of. It'd be a nice short train trip too. Or bus trip. If you can pry us out of our cars somehow. (Adding more people is always a nice step in the process.)

The 'Innovation District' to which I was referring, which is very near the Butler Brothers building, is Starlake Holdings' brainchild. They are the developer associated with Square. They have purchased property around the former Post-Dispatch building, but mostly to the north and west.  It sounds like both Square and Twitter are going to be leaning (more) heavily into the FinTech arena, so I suspect Starlake's focus will be more on office and incubator space for FinTech and the BigTech companies investing in it.

Of course there could be some crossover with GeoInt tech, and they did mention that their 'Innovation District' might include other 'anchors' in the area, but there was no specific inclusion of any of the names or marketing memes you mentioned.

And FWIW, their boundaries may have grown, and they added a few non-biosciences companies like Microsoft and Square, but CORTEX has developed pretty consistently with their strategy statement given when I attended a construction tour of their first building (the aptly-named CORTEX I) back in 2005.

City property records now reflect the ownership change...

OLIVE STREET PARTNERS LLC
40 SOUTH MAIN ST STE. 2200 MEMPHIS, TN 38103

Butler Brothers building will become 384 units, rooftop amenities and have ground level retail spaces.

Looks like a pretty good fit for the building, being so close to the MLS stadium will help give that area more residents and a true neighborhood feel on non-gamedays. 

^ a follow up post corrected the retail to 18th. it also kinda looks like the 18th retail wraps onto Olive for ~1/3 the length of the block. it's something, at least.

Wow. Fantastic news. Between this, MLS and the proposal at 18th & Wash., DTW is really gaining momentum. 

sc4mayor wrote: ↑

May 25, 2021

^ Thanks, I don't have the twitter so I didn't see the follow up.  Good spot on the Olive frontage, and it looks like there might even be a little co-working space fronting the Locust corner, so that would be nice too.

i'm not on Twitter either. you should still be able to click and read the full thread.

Is it just me or is that A LOT of single-bedroom apartments? I mean this building is big enough to be its own tiny ecosystem and I bet (if your trying to raise a family) you would want the option to have 2 or 3 bedrooms.

^i think they’re running into a building code issue with windows

2020STL wrote: ↑

May 25, 2021

Is it just me or is that A LOT of single-bedroom apartments? I mean this building is big enough to be its own tiny ecosystem and I bet (if your trying to raise a family) you would want the option to have 2 or 3 bedrooms.

This mystifies me too. As a person who is mostly work from home and will be half work from home in the future... and shares a bedroom with someone who is in the same position, we are currently cramped with a 2 bedroom. Our second bedroom/office/fun room is now entirely wfh office and our living room is also a wfh office. We both work for large companies that don't plan on changing this. I'm surprised to not see more new layouts with 2+ bedrooms or 1-2 bedrooms with 1-2 small offices.

^ i think fire code requires every bedroom to have a window. looks like they made it work with the corner units, but everywhere else it would have resulted in enormous apartments.

deformative wrote: ↑

May 26, 2021

2020STL wrote: ↑

May 25, 2021

Is it just me or is that A LOT of single-bedroom apartments? I mean this building is big enough to be its own tiny ecosystem and I bet (if your trying to raise a family) you would want the option to have 2 or 3 bedrooms.

This mystifies me too. As a person who is mostly work from home and will be half work from home in the future... and shares a bedroom with someone who is in the same position, we are currently cramped with a 2 bedroom. Our second bedroom/office/fun room is now entirely wfh office and our living room is also a wfh office. We both work for large companies that don't plan on changing this. I'm surprised to not see more new layouts with 2+ bedrooms or 1-2 bedrooms with 1-2 small offices.

Very good point. Honestly curious, how many people in similar situations do you think are in the market to pay the associated increased apartment rents moving from 2 beds up? I feel like this cohort crosses into the home buying population thereby reducing the demand for this from a rental perspective. Certainly seems to be the trend in StL at least.

You know, if they can make this thing work I'm all in favor of it. It's such a great building, and they seem to be doing everything in their power to make it fit with the existing facade.

urban_dilettante wrote: ↑

May 26, 2021

^ i think fire code requires every bedroom to have a window. looks like they made it work with the corner units, but everywhere else it would have resulted in enormous apartments.

(Sorry for ranting, I'm definitely not targeting you, UD. This is a topic I've thought about a bit to much.) 
Okay so I'm an architect (not yet licensed) and I should be able to answer this more confidently and I'm ashamed I can't. But I'm 95% sure this is not the case. I've heard so many people say this that I'm beginning to call it a myth. I'll check a couple versions of IBC later today and see if this is or was ever the case. I can say with confidence that certain funding requires bedrooms to have windows, one HUD funded project gave us trouble with this. I can also say that I have been in at least 3 relatively new (since 2010) apartments in STL that have bedrooms without direct window access. Does an apartment require a window for fire code reasons? I don't know. I think someone told me once that Merchandise Mart has some units that only face the atrium, can anyone confirm? Mostly, apartments have windows because it's a quality of life necessity to have some awareness of sunlight.

If you step back and look at it, we aren't really rescuing old ladies and cats from windows of burning buildings anymore. Mostly because buildings just don't burn down like they used to. Sure, individual apartments catch fire but the likelihood that one would be able to break the window and safely escape through it is pretty low. Plus you have several units in downtown STL that face courtyards, there's no way that a fireman's ladder is going to be able to be carried into that courtyard and reach those windows or balconies. Frankly, door closers, gypsum board, sprinklers, and multiple stairways do their job pretty well. If someone dies in a fire, it's probably because one of those systems were absent. 

It's always been my understanding that a "bedroom" has to have a window which provides emergency egress as well as a closet. But maybe that's just to be able to legally describe the number of bedrooms in a home/unit for real estate purposes.   

Nextstl - Butler Brothers To Become 384 Apartments

https://nextstl.com/2021/05/butler-brot ... partments/

aprice wrote:

urban_dilettante wrote: ↑

May 26, 2021

^ i think fire code requires every bedroom to have a window. looks like they made it work with the corner units, but everywhere else it would have resulted in enormous apartments.

(Sorry for ranting, I'm definitely not targeting you, UD. This is a topic I've thought about a bit to much.) 
Okay so I'm an architect (not yet licensed) and I should be able to answer this more confidently and I'm ashamed I can't. But I'm 95% sure this is not the case. I've heard so many people say this that I'm beginning to call it a myth. I'll check a couple versions of IBC later today and see if this is or was ever the case. I can say with confidence that certain funding requires bedrooms to have windows, one HUD funded project gave us trouble with this. I can also say that I have been in at least 3 relatively new (since 2010) apartments in STL that have bedrooms without direct window access. Does an apartment require a window for fire code reasons? I don't know. I think someone told me once that Merchandise Mart has some units that only face the atrium, can anyone confirm? Mostly, apartments have windows because it's a quality of life necessity to have some awareness of sunlight.

If you step back and look at it, we aren't really rescuing old ladies and cats from windows of burning buildings anymore. Mostly because buildings just don't burn down like they used to. Sure, individual apartments catch fire but the likelihood that one would be able to break the window and safely escape through it is pretty low. Plus you have several units in downtown STL that face courtyards, there's no way that a fireman's ladder is going to be able to be carried into that courtyard and reach those windows or balconies. Frankly, door closers, gypsum board, sprinklers, and multiple stairways do their job pretty well. If someone dies in a fire, it's probably because one of those systems were absent. 

You are very close to correct. I believe IBC doesn’t directly say windows are a requirement but two forms of egress which in most cases is a door and a window. It also varies by state I believe. NYC and Chicago I think are two examples of places that do require a window or “source of light” for a room to be considered a bedroom.

to give one a perspective: 

Damn! Should have done a where am I in St. Louis!

aprice wrote: ↑

May 26, 2021

urban_dilettante wrote: ↑

May 26, 2021

^ i think fire code requires every bedroom to have a window. looks like they made it work with the corner units, but everywhere else it would have resulted in enormous apartments.

(Sorry for ranting, I'm definitely not targeting you, UD. This is a topic I've thought about a bit to much.)

no worries. i'm very definitely just regurgitating something that i heard somewhere. or possibly made up.