How easily could the ground floor apartments be converted to retail in the future? Could this be a short-term strategy to generate revenue with that square footage until the market makes retail more lucrative?
I’ll second this as well.wabash wrote: ↑Mar 04, 2021While eCommerce definitely hurts brick & mortar retail, I think experiential spaces - including bars and restaurants - are going to recover significantly. Zoom calls and Uber Eats can't compete with going out with your friends or family.dredger wrote: ↑Mar 04, 2021^ & ^^ I think the hard cold reality going forward is that a lot of people like their delivery service for a lot of things from Amazon to Uber Eats to local businesses savy enough to maintain their own forms of online order and delivery. Or another way to put, their is simply more brick and mortar/commercial space then demand for the foreseeable future. Nothing new to this group. Just preaching.
BPV seems perfectly poised for that since it is almost entirely food, beverage, and experiential (although it is nice to see Arch Apparel going in). A slightly more downhome, less corporate bar at 300 Broadway would be a great alternative for BPV visitors and could help to lure them down to BB's or Broadway Oyster. Maybe, hopefully there will be more developer appetite and market demand for retail space to the west of BPV (e.g. the 1014 Spruce project) as it more easily captures Enterprise Center visitors (thinking of all the out of town Missouri Valley basketball fans that would normally be in Jack Patrick's today and through this weekend).
No disagreement with dredger about the overall trends of brick and mortar compared to e-commerce/delivery services...but I think this is a bit outside of that realm.
Eventually Busch will be packed again, eventually those bars at BPV and in and around downtown south will be packed again. You can’t get that experience delivered at home.
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Solid insight. While I don't have an answer to your question, I have the same ideas in mind: this is all likely a factor of financing and near-term revenue generation that, perhaps, can change in the long term._nomad_ wrote: ↑Mar 04, 2021How easily could the ground floor apartments be converted to retail in the future? Could this be a short-term strategy to generate revenue with that square footage until the market makes retail more lucrative?
The best place for a bar would be on the north half of the first floor (all those floor-to-ceiling windows along Clark), which is the original historic building. But, looking at the drawings, that's where the architect put all the common area space: fitness room, conference rooms, leasing office, sundries, a huge great room with a bar, and a living room-sized space on the Broadway/Clark corner just called "Amenity"...?_nomad_ wrote: ↑Mar 04, 2021How easily could the ground floor apartments be converted to retail in the future? Could this be a short-term strategy to generate revenue with that square footage until the market makes retail more lucrative?
The south half is just 5 small 1BR apartments, which have one window each, either looking out at Broadway or overlooking the pool/courtyard. Why not put all the amenities, which don't need a lot of windows, in the south half, next to the courtyard? I don't get it.
So, yeah it would be easy to convert that amenity space to a bar later, physically. But then the building would have no amenities except the pool and the rooftop lounge/deck.
^So anyway, the question is: how would they come anywhere close renting 5 small, crappy ground floor apartments, compared to what they'd get leasing ~4,000 sf of bar or restaurant space? On that corner?
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^^This assumes that they'd be able to lease ~4,000 sf to a bar or restaurant immediately. In a perfect situation you'd be right, but if their market research tells them that there just isn't enough demand (or realistically too much supply of available space) for another bar or restaurant downtown, then it doesn't matter what the ideal use is.
Just one example, but it probably doesn't help that Flying Saucer closed up shop after 5 years in the same immediate area/market.
Who knows why Flying Saucer closed, it may have had nothing to do with revenue. The timing suggests the closing and subsequent tenant signing were related. Either way, that space had a tenant signed barely a month after they announced they were closing, and it was only empty for 5 months, so...wabash wrote: ↑Mar 05, 2021Just one example, but it probably doesn't help that Flying Saucer closed up shop after 5 years in the same immediate area/market.
That's true, a market study of the overall downtown retail environment would definitely not leave any developer feeling optimistic, even before the pandemic. And yet, just about every new residential development or renovation downtown includes retail space. I'm sure in many cases, they fully expect that space could be empty for two or three years, but they estimate the property will still be more valuable in the long run not just because of the revenue potential, but because residents see it as a potential amenity and neighborhood improvement.Laife Fulk wrote: ↑Mar 05, 2021^^This assumes that they'd be able to lease ~4,000 sf to a bar or restaurant immediately. In a perfect situation you'd be right, but if their market research tells them that there just isn't enough demand (or realistically too much supply of available space) for another bar or restaurant downtown, then it doesn't matter what the ideal use is.
But a downtown retail market study isn't going to be very informative for retail space at 300 S. Broadway in any case, because it's not just another bar or restaurant downtown, it's a unique property. There's nothing else downtown like it.
To determine it's potential, one simply needs to calculate the number of eyeballs attached to wallets which either pass by it, sit in the stadium across the street with a view of it, or mill about on Clark St. near it, over the course of a year. That's a very big number.
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All valid. And yet, they still chose to just turn it into residential right away.
$11.6M building permit application submitted.
Nextstl - 300 S Broadway To Become 80 Apartments
https://nextstl.com/2021/03/300-s-broad ... partments/
Nextstl - 300 S Broadway To Become 80 Apartments
https://nextstl.com/2021/03/300-s-broad ... partments/
^only 5 apartments on the ground floor. So not all that many. I still would want a pretty good discount to be ground level though
And two of those units only have one window, which faces the atrium. I guess they can always rent them or put them on Airbnb for pre- and post-game party pads, but it is still a very strange layout.jshank83 wrote: ↑Mar 26, 2021^only 5 apartments on the ground floor. So not all that many. I still would want a pretty good discount to be ground level though
I hope you are right Richard, but what was the source of this?
" There is a ground floor retail space about 1,000-2,000 sf."
Or did you just eyeball the northwest corner space on the drawings?
" There is a ground floor retail space about 1,000-2,000 sf."
Or did you just eyeball the northwest corner space on the drawings?
Which was my point. Given the potential, there must be some compelling reason or obstacle which caused them to choose small, awkward, ground floor units, other than, "We're never going to get a decent return leasing 4,000sf of retail space across the street from center field Busch Stadium..."Laife Fulk wrote: ↑Mar 20, 2021All valid. And yet, they still chose to just turn it into residential right away.
Except for the corner apartments, it looks like every unit in the building has only one window. Most of them will face either Clark or Broadway, with two or three per floor facing the atrium.urbanitas wrote: ↑Mar 27, 2021And two of those units only have one window, which faces the atrium. I guess they can always rent them or put them on Airbnb for pre- and post-game party pads, but it is still a very strange layout.jshank83 wrote: ↑Mar 26, 2021^only 5 apartments on the ground floor. So not all that many. I still would want a pretty good discount to be ground level though
Issuedquincunx wrote: ↑Mar 26, 2021$11.6M building permit application submitted.
Nextstl - 300 S Broadway To Become 80 Apartments
https://nextstl.com/2021/03/300-s-broad ... partments/
592sf retail space listed on Loopnet. $28 per square foot per year. So I guess yearly rent is $16,576. At the corner...
https://www.loopnet.com/Listing/300-S-B ... /22881952/
Intelica has the project named as "Ballpark Heights"
https://intelicacre.com/commercial-real ... 4588-lease
https://www.loopnet.com/Listing/300-S-B ... /22881952/
Intelica has the project named as "Ballpark Heights"
https://intelicacre.com/commercial-real ... 4588-lease
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Would make a great little coffee shop. I always think DT could use more, especially compared to other urban areas.chriss752 wrote:592sf retail space listed on Loopnet. $28 per square foot per year. So I guess yearly rent is $16,576. At the corner...
https://www.loopnet.com/Listing/300-S-B ... /22881952/
Intelica has the project named as "Ballpark Heights"
https://intelicacre.com/commercial-real ... 4588-lease
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^ & ^^. Hopefully it will have plumbing to accommodate either of those uses.
A newsstand/convenience store would also be welcome.
A newsstand/convenience store would also be welcome.
I’m happy to see they’re adding some commercial space now. Still think this corner is perfect for a non-BPV sanctioned bar but I’m not sure what is basically the size of a studio apartment is big enough for that.
Like the idea of a coffee shop or a newsstand (or even a combination of sorts). Maybe a small corner bodega or convenience store, or a small footprint CVS.
Like the idea of a coffee shop or a newsstand (or even a combination of sorts). Maybe a small corner bodega or convenience store, or a small footprint CVS.
590 sf is extremely small for retail. Almost all users need a minimum of 900sf with most "small shop" being in the 1200sf range. It would almost have to be a small coffee shop or some niche souvenir shop trying to capitalize on the proximity to Busch.
Lol, ya. 590sf is basically a living room, way too small for a bar or restaurant, and definitely no space or vent to accommodate a kitchen. Maybe something that doesn't require a kitchen, like hotdogs, pretzels, and beer, or smoothies, i.e. something you can make in a kitchen elsewhere, keep it warm/cold, and serve it out if a window counter on paper plates and plastic cups... But then you don't need to lease space for that, you could do that out of a food truck or even a cart...jbacott wrote: ↑May 05, 2021590 sf is extremely small for retail. Almost all users need a minimum of 900sf with most "small shop" being in the 1200sf range. It would almost have to be a small coffee shop or some niche souvenir shop trying to capitalize on the proximity to Busch.
My bet is this will be a bank ATM lobby with a ton of signage to score all the "free" advertising. Either that or yet another t-shirt, hat, and souvenir shop, because downtown can never have too many of those, apparently...
It can be done. Eat-Rite, White Knight and Carl's come to mind. But yeah, ATM lobby is a really solid guess.