Yeah, but what about between Alton and Downtown?
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New plan - they'll just load the trains onto barges at Alton and then float them down the river to St. Louis. Should cut a good amount of time off that leg.
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^^TRRA is slowly upgrading their system. The improvements won't be flashy and dramatic and the speeds won't suddenly become mystical, but getting a second track back across Merchants, getting rid of slow orders, improving signaling, and improving dispatching can only help. I have no special inside knowledge, but the stuff that's been discussed over in the freight corridor thread will actually help here too. 12.5 miles an hour to 30 is an even bigger jump than 77 to 110 in terms of time saved. Not that I know what the current average speeds in the gateway are, or what they will be after, but I believe there are restrictions and slow orders out the wazoo right now and there should be many fewer after everything is done. It'll be nice to get to a world where TRRA is adding capacity and not deleting it.
High Speed Rail Alliance (advocacy group in Chicago, no actual authority), recommends finishing Chicago to St. Louis as a priority for the new admin.
https://www.hsrail.org/blog/rail-focuse ... hree-parts
https://www.hsrail.org/blog/rail-focuse ... hree-parts
Amtrak is relaunching daily, non-stop service across the Country with funds from the stimulus:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/tr ... story.html
https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/tr ... story.html
Daily service will be restored to long-distance Amtrak trains starting in May, and hundreds of furloughed employees will be called to report back to work as early as next month, the passenger railroad announced Wednesday after Congress passed a pandemic relief package that includes $1.7 billion for the carrier.
Amtrak ended daily service last year to hundreds of stations outside the Northeast as part of cost-saving measures that followed a precipitous drop in ridership and revenue amid the coronavirus pandemic. Most Amtrak long-distance trains have been operating three times a week since October.
The company said it will begin to notify more than 1,200 furloughed employees this month to report to work as early as April.
I had an idea about STL Amtrak service that I wanted to float to the board. Let me know your thoughts, if its impossible, or its been talked about before.
The City of New Orleans travels between Chicago and New Orleans once daily. The train leaves Chicago around 8:30pm and runs on the same route as the corridor services Illini and Saluki up to Carbondale.
My idea is to run the City of New Orleans on the Lincoln Service line from Chicago to STL. STL to Carbondale on the CN and then join up with the rest of the route. I would think that the inclusion of STL would help to boost ridership. The evening Lincoln service would be cut and an extra Illini/Saluki added.
2 Main Issue:
1. Flipping the locomotives at STL. I think this could be avoided by just having 1 pull locomotive in the front and 1 push locomotive at the rear. STL, as a major city, would naturally be a longer stop and could be scheduled as a smoke stop to allow the crews to hope out and get into the locomotive at the other end.
2. Increased mileage. This proposal would add mileage (and more time) to the City of New Orleans route). Its my understanding that the current routing is slow in comparison to my proposed route so it could be a wash.
The City of New Orleans travels between Chicago and New Orleans once daily. The train leaves Chicago around 8:30pm and runs on the same route as the corridor services Illini and Saluki up to Carbondale.
My idea is to run the City of New Orleans on the Lincoln Service line from Chicago to STL. STL to Carbondale on the CN and then join up with the rest of the route. I would think that the inclusion of STL would help to boost ridership. The evening Lincoln service would be cut and an extra Illini/Saluki added.
2 Main Issue:
1. Flipping the locomotives at STL. I think this could be avoided by just having 1 pull locomotive in the front and 1 push locomotive at the rear. STL, as a major city, would naturally be a longer stop and could be scheduled as a smoke stop to allow the crews to hope out and get into the locomotive at the other end.
2. Increased mileage. This proposal would add mileage (and more time) to the City of New Orleans route). Its my understanding that the current routing is slow in comparison to my proposed route so it could be a wash.
I like the idea. Feasibility wise, I don't think it would make much sense. You may get a few extra riders in there, but nothing too significant. It would be nice to have a connection to New Orleans.ldai_phs wrote: ↑Mar 21, 2021I had an idea about STL Amtrak service that I wanted to float to the board. Let me know your thoughts, if its impossible, or its been talked about before.
The City of New Orleans travels between Chicago and New Orleans once daily. The train leaves Chicago around 8:30pm and runs on the same route as the corridor services Illini and Saluki up to Carbondale.
My idea is to run the City of New Orleans on the Lincoln Service line from Chicago to STL. STL to Carbondale on the CN and then join up with the rest of the route. I would think that the inclusion of STL would help to boost ridership. The evening Lincoln service would be cut and an extra Illini/Saluki added.
2 Main Issue:
1. Flipping the locomotives at STL. I think this could be avoided by just having 1 pull locomotive in the front and 1 push locomotive at the rear. STL, as a major city, would naturally be a longer stop and could be scheduled as a smoke stop to allow the crews to hope out and get into the locomotive at the other end.
2. Increased mileage. This proposal would add mileage (and more time) to the City of New Orleans route). Its my understanding that the current routing is slow in comparison to my proposed route so it could be a wash.
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There used to be a spur train from Stl to Centralia that would hitch to the southbound City of NO. I took it back in '86. Before some of you were born. Before a lot of you were born.ldai_phs wrote: ↑Mar 21, 2021I had an idea about STL Amtrak service that I wanted to float to the board. Let me know your thoughts, if its impossible, or its been talked about before.
The City of New Orleans travels between Chicago and New Orleans once daily. The train leaves Chicago around 8:30pm and runs on the same route as the corridor services Illini and Saluki up to Carbondale.
My idea is to run the City of New Orleans on the Lincoln Service line from Chicago to STL. STL to Carbondale on the CN and then join up with the rest of the route. I would think that the inclusion of STL would help to boost ridership. The evening Lincoln service would be cut and an extra Illini/Saluki added.
2 Main Issue:
1. Flipping the locomotives at STL. I think this could be avoided by just having 1 pull locomotive in the front and 1 push locomotive at the rear. STL, as a major city, would naturally be a longer stop and could be scheduled as a smoke stop to allow the crews to hope out and get into the locomotive at the other end.
2. Increased mileage. This proposal would add mileage (and more time) to the City of New Orleans route). Its my understanding that the current routing is slow in comparison to my proposed route so it could be a wash.
I don't know how much rail passenger traffic St. Louis sends straight south. Probably a lot into Mississippi. But given the daily Texas Eagle which gets Arkansas and East Texas, unless there were 100/day that otherwise wouldn't take the train, I doubt they've even looked at it. I still think that a daily to Indianapolis/Ohio or Nashville/Atlanta would add train riders that didn't exist before and would really strengthen the network.
In this version of the schedule, it looks like it was a train from Kansas City to St. Louis to Carbondale, where it joined up with the City of New Orleans (with stops at currently unserved Belleville and Cairo)
To what a few posters have mentioned, simply extending the River Runner to Carbondale would be a great means of linking St. Louis to the City of New Orleans (with overlap at Centralia and Carbondale stations) and providing an additional tie between St. Louis and Southern Illinois in general.ldai_phs wrote: ↑Mar 21, 2021I had an idea about STL Amtrak service that I wanted to float to the board. Let me know your thoughts, if its impossible, or its been talked about before.
The City of New Orleans travels between Chicago and New Orleans once daily. The train leaves Chicago around 8:30pm and runs on the same route as the corridor services Illini and Saluki up to Carbondale.
My idea is to run the City of New Orleans on the Lincoln Service line from Chicago to STL. STL to Carbondale on the CN and then join up with the rest of the route. I would think that the inclusion of STL would help to boost ridership. The evening Lincoln service would be cut and an extra Illini/Saluki added.
2 Main Issue:
1. Flipping the locomotives at STL. I think this could be avoided by just having 1 pull locomotive in the front and 1 push locomotive at the rear. STL, as a major city, would naturally be a longer stop and could be scheduled as a smoke stop to allow the crews to hope out and get into the locomotive at the other end.
2. Increased mileage. This proposal would add mileage (and more time) to the City of New Orleans route). Its my understanding that the current routing is slow in comparison to my proposed route so it could be a wash.
I’m currently researching, as a personal project, what extending the River Runner to Indianapolis on CSX would look like.
I believe KC-STL-INDY is a service concept Illinois would get behind to better connect down state. A good schedule on this route could connect STL and INDY with a short layover in Effingham to the City of New Orleans.
STL-INDY could be an incredible route and could become STLs closest (in time) major city via Amtrak.
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I believe KC-STL-INDY is a service concept Illinois would get behind to better connect down state. A good schedule on this route could connect STL and INDY with a short layover in Effingham to the City of New Orleans.
STL-INDY could be an incredible route and could become STLs closest (in time) major city via Amtrak.
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Another great idea. Let's double KCY-STL and send half to Indy and the other half to Carbondale!
Starting to read a fair share number of articles trying to outline Biden's next moves as it relates to infrastructure. Sounds like going bid and already talking same process
As far as high speed rail. Legislation already introduced in House
https://www.progressiverailroading.com/ ... ion--63015
U.S. Rep. Seth Moulton (D-Mass.) has introduced the American High-Speed Rail Act just as Congress turns its focus to infrastructure.
The bill would invest $205 billion into high-speed rail, create at least 2.6 million direct American jobs over five year, and provide Americans with a new travel option that’s safer than driving, cleaner than flying and never delayed by weather, Moulton said in a press release.
U.S. Reps. Brendan Boyle (D-Pa.), Suzan DelBene (D-Wash.), and Mike Doyle (D-Pa.) joined Moulton as original sponsors of the bill. The International Brotherhood of Teamsters, Teamsters Rail Conference, Brotherhood of Maintenance of Way Employee Division, and the Brotherhood of Locomotive Engineers and Trainmen have endorsed the bill.
As far as high speed rail. Legislation already introduced in House
https://www.progressiverailroading.com/ ... ion--63015
U.S. Rep. Seth Moulton (D-Mass.) has introduced the American High-Speed Rail Act just as Congress turns its focus to infrastructure.
The bill would invest $205 billion into high-speed rail, create at least 2.6 million direct American jobs over five year, and provide Americans with a new travel option that’s safer than driving, cleaner than flying and never delayed by weather, Moulton said in a press release.
U.S. Reps. Brendan Boyle (D-Pa.), Suzan DelBene (D-Wash.), and Mike Doyle (D-Pa.) joined Moulton as original sponsors of the bill. The International Brotherhood of Teamsters, Teamsters Rail Conference, Brotherhood of Maintenance of Way Employee Division, and the Brotherhood of Locomotive Engineers and Trainmen have endorsed the bill.
Something else that can be considered is that the current City of New Orleans route through Illinois is not only slow but struggles with staying on schedule.
Lincoln Service: 76% on time.
Illini: 37% on time.
City of New Orleans (full route): 52% on time.
Lincoln Service: 76% on time.
Illini: 37% on time.
City of New Orleans (full route): 52% on time.
If we could get high speed rail lines from St. Louis to Kansas City, Chicago, Indy, Nashville and Memphis, I'd be happy.dredger wrote: ↑Mar 22, 2021Starting to read a fair share number of articles trying to outline Biden's next moves as it relates to infrastructure. Sounds like going bid and already talking same process
As far as high speed rail. Legislation already introduced in House
https://www.progressiverailroading.com/ ... ion--63015
U.S. Rep. Seth Moulton (D-Mass.) has introduced the American High-Speed Rail Act just as Congress turns its focus to infrastructure.
The bill would invest $205 billion into high-speed rail, create at least 2.6 million direct American jobs over five year, and provide Americans with a new travel option that’s safer than driving, cleaner than flying and never delayed by weather, Moulton said in a press release.
U.S. Reps. Brendan Boyle (D-Pa.), Suzan DelBene (D-Wash.), and Mike Doyle (D-Pa.) joined Moulton as original sponsors of the bill. The International Brotherhood of Teamsters, Teamsters Rail Conference, Brotherhood of Maintenance of Way Employee Division, and the Brotherhood of Locomotive Engineers and Trainmen have endorsed the bill.
Although I feel like that $205 Billion is too little for an adequate nationwide system. And then the breakdown of the money, issuing the grants, and more sort of limit what can be done with it, leaving me to believe that it won't benefit us in the Midwest as much as it would up in the Northeast. If they truly make this a nationwide thing, let's make sure the money is spent wisely and the projects are started and completed on time and on budget.
Example A: California High Speed Rail, which is an utter disaster, is way over budget. Not a dime of the federal money in the legislation proposed by Rep. Moulton should go towards completing that money burner out west. Not to mention the fact that it's not on time either.
https://www.latimes.com/california/stor ... gn-changesThe price tag of the massive project to build a Los Angeles-to-San Francisco high-speed rail system has shot up from an original estimate in 2008 of $33 billion with service starting in 2020 to at least $100 billion with an uncertain start date.
^ I think it would unlikely you would see a legit Midwest HSR over Cali HSR when it comes to funding under Biden. Cali HSR like most big infrastructure was far from final design in the first place (think South County metrolink extension and its overruns when built - initial estimates were not at full design & did not account for the underground portion built for FPP as a change order, added utility work, final design) and Cali is starting to get their act together as the big issue and cost drivers was land acquisition & real estates issues and a bunch of local lawsuits that have been finalized. In addition, It has made more progress under the Environmental Impact Statements for rest of Delta and Cali has pretty much been able to keep funding going on state level with a big portion of Cali's cape and trade credits still going to HSR. Finally, having your VP and Speaker of the House in your court helps as well
Instead, I see this as bucket funding - so Northeast Corridor will gets its pot for bridges & tunnels, a bucket for Virginia/NC expansion & build out, a pot for private proposals such as Brightline projects (FL, West Express & Texas Central) and Midwest pot to continue corridor expansion revolving around Chicago - Empire Builder/Hiawatha service, Detroit & Lincoln/St Louis
Instead, I see this as bucket funding - so Northeast Corridor will gets its pot for bridges & tunnels, a bucket for Virginia/NC expansion & build out, a pot for private proposals such as Brightline projects (FL, West Express & Texas Central) and Midwest pot to continue corridor expansion revolving around Chicago - Empire Builder/Hiawatha service, Detroit & Lincoln/St Louis
^^ Sadly, Missouri would be an uphill climb. Knowing Jefferson City we'd probably try and return the money like Ohio and Florida did when Obama was president and tried for HSR. Apparently the state had $500 million left over from the last stimulus...have another couple billion coming in. I bet we still couldn't get them to spend a dime of that on pubic transit.
I do think STL to Chicago will finally get done...would be great if Illinois could ring out enough cash to get at least the rural stretches up to Acela speeds instead of the 110mph currently planned. A line from here to Memphis and then from Memphis to Nashville would probably make the most sense, connecting Tennessee's two largest cities in the process. Then from Nashville Amtrak could reopen service to Atlanta, which is often discussed down in those parts.
I do think STL to Chicago will finally get done...would be great if Illinois could ring out enough cash to get at least the rural stretches up to Acela speeds instead of the 110mph currently planned. A line from here to Memphis and then from Memphis to Nashville would probably make the most sense, connecting Tennessee's two largest cities in the process. Then from Nashville Amtrak could reopen service to Atlanta, which is often discussed down in those parts.
^ Chicago-STL was a much smaller scope and is also over budget and very delayed. Federal money should be allocated to finish this AND California.
These are new types of projects that engineering firms, contractors, and local governments have little experience implementing. Demanding they be perfectly managed is unreasonable and honestly gives anti-HSR tools to work with.
Do we believe the interstate system was developed without boondoggles or waste? Nope. It took decades of fed commitment to improve project management and we still see miserable failures.
You want HSR on time and on budget?
Gotta throw money at it until we figure it. Boondoggles and all.
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These are new types of projects that engineering firms, contractors, and local governments have little experience implementing. Demanding they be perfectly managed is unreasonable and honestly gives anti-HSR tools to work with.
Do we believe the interstate system was developed without boondoggles or waste? Nope. It took decades of fed commitment to improve project management and we still see miserable failures.
You want HSR on time and on budget?
Gotta throw money at it until we figure it. Boondoggles and all.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
That would require electrification and grade separation, I reckon.sc4mayor wrote: ↑Mar 22, 2021I do think STL to Chicago will finally get done...would be great if Illinois could ring out enough cash to get at least the rural stretches up to Acela speeds instead of the 110mph currently planned.
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I'd love to see better rail connections through the midwest outside of Chicago. Unfortunately, Indiana is more averse to Amtrak funding than Missouri and a connection to Indianapolis would require a lot of funding from Illinois cities. I lived in Indiana for 6 years and for some time the only reason Amtrak still ran was Indianapolis and 1 or 2 other cities funding the route between Chicago and Cincinnati. The state returned federal funding for public transit. If I recall correctly, when I moved, the route from Indy to Cincinnati left at about 2am on Saturday morning and arrived in Cincy at around 5am and that was the best option. This ran maybe once a day, essentially useless for anyone living in these cities.
I don't mean to just be a downer... but if stl wants more rail I don't think looking to Indiana is a realistic option. We have really great options to Chicago and more frequent routes to KC and maybe Memphis or Nashville etc would be a better use of time. Big caveat is that I don't know much about TN right now, so maybe that's not realistic either... I'd love to know what the most promising option is.
With climate change, I think better train mid-range connections will be essential to the future of the city. We can't rely on planes like this for much longer and cities with better transit will be much more appealing to everyone.
I don't mean to just be a downer... but if stl wants more rail I don't think looking to Indiana is a realistic option. We have really great options to Chicago and more frequent routes to KC and maybe Memphis or Nashville etc would be a better use of time. Big caveat is that I don't know much about TN right now, so maybe that's not realistic either... I'd love to know what the most promising option is.
With climate change, I think better train mid-range connections will be essential to the future of the city. We can't rely on planes like this for much longer and cities with better transit will be much more appealing to everyone.
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Getting to Nashville would involve crossing pretty hilly areas where Indy is a relatively straight shot. I guess it depends which is harder to get around; mountains or republicans.
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Tennessee is also full of Republicans though.GoHarvOrGoHome wrote: ↑Mar 23, 2021Getting to Nashville would involve crossing pretty hilly areas where Indy is a relatively straight shot. I guess it depends which is harder to get around; mountains or republicans.
I don't think interstate rail is as polarizing of an issue as it gets made out to be. Sure, Tennessee and Indiana are going to shun funding for urban rail, but I think that might soften when you're talking about jobs and construction investment in places like Terre Haute and Greencastle along existing ROW. There's a nostalgia and all-americanness to train travel that I think plays well with small rural towns (e.g. Ironton/Arcadia Missouri's enthusiasm for their new station). I think once talk turns to high speed rail, new corridors (eminent domain), or more urban focused projects it becomes a harder sell.
That said, extending the River Runner to Carbondale could be an easier sell than anything involving Indy or Ky/Tenn as Illinois is generally more supportive of rail transit. It'd basically be a way of improving St. Louis rail connectivity while avoiding the MO Leg entirely (if anything they should be supportive as MO might be able to share some maintenance and employment costs).
That said, extending the River Runner to Carbondale could be an easier sell than anything involving Indy or Ky/Tenn as Illinois is generally more supportive of rail transit. It'd basically be a way of improving St. Louis rail connectivity while avoiding the MO Leg entirely (if anything they should be supportive as MO might be able to share some maintenance and employment costs).