^ Yeah and there are plenty of red states and red districts with red representatives that have fought tooth and nail to save their Amtrak routes when the long distance lines have been put on the chopping block off and on over the years. I still think we're talking an uphill climb with most of these folks, however. I think Tennessee's best shot is Nashville to Atlanta where the right of way already exists, plus they're two booming cities.
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I've wondered this for a while: let's say there's the proposal for Stl-Indianapolis...this would be a federal undertaking, given Amtrak. Funding would be Indiana DOT, IDOT, and MoDOT, correct? Could the city of St. Louis kick in?
In my hypothetical... Feds, Illinois, City/County of St. Louis, City of Indianapolis, Marion County, City of Terre Haute (or ISU), and private funding would contribute to the route between St. Louis and Indianapolis. Missouri is feuding over what they pay now and Indiana cut funding to support daily Chicago-Indiana in 2019.
I don’t have a number yet... but to establish basic 70mph I’m preliminarily estimating ~$50m in capital improvements (new transfer station in Effingham, new station in Terre Haute, multiple new crossings/switches) and $12m annually in state subsidy (based on MOs payment for similar service level and distance between KC and STL) and lease to CSX.
In other words, we need to get very creative.
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I don’t have a number yet... but to establish basic 70mph I’m preliminarily estimating ~$50m in capital improvements (new transfer station in Effingham, new station in Terre Haute, multiple new crossings/switches) and $12m annually in state subsidy (based on MOs payment for similar service level and distance between KC and STL) and lease to CSX.
In other words, we need to get very creative.
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In other other words, would be a cool initiative for Greater STL to brainstorm around
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Looks like some of those federal dollars are going to have to go to keeping the river runner at 2x daily.
Stltoday - Amtrak service across Missouri could be reduced under GOP-backed budget plan
https://www.stltoday.com/news/local/gov ... 806e9.html
https://www.stltoday.com/news/local/gov ... 806e9.html
Amtrak released their response to the proposed $2 Trillion infrastructure plan. 30+ new routes, enhancements to other corridors. STL-Chicago would be enhanced.
http://media.amtrak.com/wp-content/uplo ... tement.pdf
http://media.amtrak.com/wp-content/uplo ... tement.pdf
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Pretty disappointing that there’s no STL to Indyquincunx wrote:No new destinations from STL
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Looks like a lot of the new routes are going to involve state sponsorship.SeattleNative wrote:Pretty disappointing that there’s no STL to Indyquincunx wrote:No new destinations from STL
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If this transformation comes, it’ll require a structural change of industrial & passenger contracts and federal funding strategies. Stl to Indy is not on this map, but the barriers to request new service will likely be much lower. Local leadership could get it.SeattleNative wrote:Pretty disappointing that there’s no STL to Indyquincunx wrote:No new destinations from STL
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I’m fairly surprised KC, Des Moines, and Omaha are seeing nothing from this. KC to Omaha seems easy. Des Moines to Chicago seems easy. Enhanced service from KC to Chicago or even STL seemed likely. Local leaders need to step to the plate in all three.
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Iowa (R) leadership wants nothing to do with Amtrak. Illinois has been working on Chicago-Moline for ~15 years (and should be done next year, or year after that, or year after that....) There was a proposal to cross the Mississippi into Iowa and run the train to, at first, Iowa City to get U of Iowa connected to Chicago and then push on to Des Moines. That proposal was quickly tossed.
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I'll be relieved if we still have trains to KC in a decade.SeattleNative wrote: ↑Apr 01, 2021Pretty disappointing that there’s no STL to Indyquincunx wrote:No new destinations from STL
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I wonder how much it would cost to build a 110-125mph railway on i70 between KC and STL
I for one rather not see Amtrak wish list make up the bulk of the $80 billion in rail simply for the fact that some of the new routes simply include a fair share of states who simply don't want it and or easy targets for a drastic reduction/or reverse course as soon as political winds change. Think of the train to Duluth MN or the proposed Colorado front range service. Both could easily be incorporated as expanded regional commuter services for Twin Cities & Denver respectively and go through Transit funding.
Instead, would rather see the bulk go to some dedicated buckets and or significant improvement for corridors where their is already some decent buy in and significant engineers/environmental reviews in place. To me, you could easily go with funding bucket
- NEC tunnels starting w Gateway tunnel & new Baltimore tunnel, bridge upgrades. Throw in some funding for planning/engineering/environmental review to connect Boston North & South Stations
- SEC with funds to Potomac River crossing, S line improvements between NC & SC and expanding rail frequency to Atlanta. Essential send equivalent amount of NEC funds going north of DC to VA/NC/GA to continue to build a Southeast rail corridors.
- Midwest corridors to St. Louis & Detroit in order to complete 110 mph service once and for all, more Chicago CREATE funding and for all as well as expanding Empire Builder/Milwaukee corridor while you got two governors going in on rail as well. Iowa, Indiana and Ohio or not going in for it so why go down that road. Maybe a better wishful thought, expand/increase frequency from Chicago to New Orleans with additional train running through St. Louis via Lincoln Service route and then head south to New Orleans from their. That would tie KC/Missouri River nicely as well.
- HSR bucket - Get a slug to Cali HSR so at minimum current central valley line can get into the bay area. From the transit bucket give money to build out the tunnel for Caltrans last mile connection from current San Fran 4th street station into the new Transportation Center as well as LA to build out/electrify its own line.
- Point Defiance upgrade in Pacific Northwest. State of Washington pulled back and left a major piece of the Point Defiance rail project as is due to funding. Essentially a sharp curve immediately after the rail crosses I-5 that requires a significant speed reduction. Probably better known for where the engineer undergoing qualifications with invited guest/riders but didn't reduced speed resulting in a major crash, fatalities, etc. a few years back.
- Finally, a HSR bucket open to loans that can turn into grants for private rail providers Realistically you got Florida Brightline, Brightlne's Xpress from outside LA to Las Vegas & Central Texas. Florida Brightline grant to extend from Orlando Airport to Tampa in conjunction with Transit grant to SunRail to expand its service would strengthen a much needed rail corridor and do a lot to solidify rail as an option in Florida.
Instead, would rather see the bulk go to some dedicated buckets and or significant improvement for corridors where their is already some decent buy in and significant engineers/environmental reviews in place. To me, you could easily go with funding bucket
- NEC tunnels starting w Gateway tunnel & new Baltimore tunnel, bridge upgrades. Throw in some funding for planning/engineering/environmental review to connect Boston North & South Stations
- SEC with funds to Potomac River crossing, S line improvements between NC & SC and expanding rail frequency to Atlanta. Essential send equivalent amount of NEC funds going north of DC to VA/NC/GA to continue to build a Southeast rail corridors.
- Midwest corridors to St. Louis & Detroit in order to complete 110 mph service once and for all, more Chicago CREATE funding and for all as well as expanding Empire Builder/Milwaukee corridor while you got two governors going in on rail as well. Iowa, Indiana and Ohio or not going in for it so why go down that road. Maybe a better wishful thought, expand/increase frequency from Chicago to New Orleans with additional train running through St. Louis via Lincoln Service route and then head south to New Orleans from their. That would tie KC/Missouri River nicely as well.
- HSR bucket - Get a slug to Cali HSR so at minimum current central valley line can get into the bay area. From the transit bucket give money to build out the tunnel for Caltrans last mile connection from current San Fran 4th street station into the new Transportation Center as well as LA to build out/electrify its own line.
- Point Defiance upgrade in Pacific Northwest. State of Washington pulled back and left a major piece of the Point Defiance rail project as is due to funding. Essentially a sharp curve immediately after the rail crosses I-5 that requires a significant speed reduction. Probably better known for where the engineer undergoing qualifications with invited guest/riders but didn't reduced speed resulting in a major crash, fatalities, etc. a few years back.
- Finally, a HSR bucket open to loans that can turn into grants for private rail providers Realistically you got Florida Brightline, Brightlne's Xpress from outside LA to Las Vegas & Central Texas. Florida Brightline grant to extend from Orlando Airport to Tampa in conjunction with Transit grant to SunRail to expand its service would strengthen a much needed rail corridor and do a lot to solidify rail as an option in Florida.
Not sure if it will get out of the President's budget and into appropriations but hints of a POTUS who truly wants to invest in rail and some opportunity for Lincoln Service/mobility investments for St Louis. I think a real opportunity for Lincoln Service to get much needed capital funding to complete some capital projects as well as an opportunity for St. Louis to tie some of its greenway projects to mobility/transit/rail service such Lincoln & River Runner corridors.
I think St. Louis/Memphis would be in good position for additional Crescent City service if the added train would route through St. Louis and then continue southward to Memphis/New Orleans. However, would need to identify route and costs from St. Louis to Cario or maybe follow the Texas Eagle to Poplar Bluff MO and then onto Memphis/New Orleans. I couldn't see how it could hurt considering that MS is not trying that hard and Alabama is pushing back from resuming rail service east of New Orleans. So why not explore a stronger Chicago - New Orleans corridor with added service and folding St. Louis metro area into that corridor if the gulf states don't want it...
https://www.progressiverailroading.com/ ... ion--63251
President Joe Biden last week presented to Congress his fiscal-year 2022 discretionary budget request, including $25.6 billion for the U.S. Department of Transportation (USDOT).
The amount proposed for USDOT represents a 1.3% increase over FY2021 enacted funding. The budget proposal "sparks the second great rail revolution" by including $625 million for a new competitive grant program to invest in passenger rail as a competitive, low-carbon option for intercity travel, according to the president's request.
In addition, the budget calls for $375 million for Consolidated Rail Infrastructure and Safety Improvement (CRISI) grants "to improve safety, throughput and reliability of the nation's rail network," according to the budget document.
Also included in the president’s request are:
• $2.7 billion for Amtrak, a 35% increase from the FY 2021 enacted level, to provide improvements and expansion on the Northeast Corridor and throughout the nation’s passenger rail network;
• $2.5 billion for the Capital Investment Grant program, a 23% increase from the 2021 enacted level, to improve accessibility to high-quality transit; and
• $1 billion for the Rebuilding American Infrastructure with Sustainability and Equity (RAISE) program, formerly known as the Better Utilizing Investments to Leverage Development (BUILD) transportation grant program.
The majority of surface transportation funding for public transit and highways is considered mandatory spending and is not identified in this part of the president’s budget. The president’s mandatory budget will be submitted at a later date.
I think St. Louis/Memphis would be in good position for additional Crescent City service if the added train would route through St. Louis and then continue southward to Memphis/New Orleans. However, would need to identify route and costs from St. Louis to Cario or maybe follow the Texas Eagle to Poplar Bluff MO and then onto Memphis/New Orleans. I couldn't see how it could hurt considering that MS is not trying that hard and Alabama is pushing back from resuming rail service east of New Orleans. So why not explore a stronger Chicago - New Orleans corridor with added service and folding St. Louis metro area into that corridor if the gulf states don't want it...
https://www.progressiverailroading.com/ ... ion--63251
President Joe Biden last week presented to Congress his fiscal-year 2022 discretionary budget request, including $25.6 billion for the U.S. Department of Transportation (USDOT).
The amount proposed for USDOT represents a 1.3% increase over FY2021 enacted funding. The budget proposal "sparks the second great rail revolution" by including $625 million for a new competitive grant program to invest in passenger rail as a competitive, low-carbon option for intercity travel, according to the president's request.
In addition, the budget calls for $375 million for Consolidated Rail Infrastructure and Safety Improvement (CRISI) grants "to improve safety, throughput and reliability of the nation's rail network," according to the budget document.
Also included in the president’s request are:
• $2.7 billion for Amtrak, a 35% increase from the FY 2021 enacted level, to provide improvements and expansion on the Northeast Corridor and throughout the nation’s passenger rail network;
• $2.5 billion for the Capital Investment Grant program, a 23% increase from the 2021 enacted level, to improve accessibility to high-quality transit; and
• $1 billion for the Rebuilding American Infrastructure with Sustainability and Equity (RAISE) program, formerly known as the Better Utilizing Investments to Leverage Development (BUILD) transportation grant program.
The majority of surface transportation funding for public transit and highways is considered mandatory spending and is not identified in this part of the president’s budget. The president’s mandatory budget will be submitted at a later date.
I'd like to see Amtrak focus any increased funding on existing corridors, and maybe even eliminate a few current routes (namely parts of the Southwest Chief and Sunset Limited). Between the Covid cutbacks and new infrastructure funding this is the perfect time to assess what is and isn't in the best longterm interest of the system. It's great that the current administration is supportive of Amtrak, but another administration/party could take the exact opposite approach, and I worry that pouring funding into new service to Wichita, Macon, Montgomery, Iowa City, Duluth, Baton Rouge, Eau Claire, Asheville, and Scranton would only help the anti-Amtrak argument and hurt the longterm viability of the system. There are a couple exceptions - the trans-Ohio line and Detroit-to-Toronto could make sense (although it's not clear what Amtrak's role would be for the latter).
As nice as it'd be for St. Louis to have connectivity to Memphis or Indianapolis, faster, more frequent and on-time service to Chi (and KC, although that's not an "enhanced service" corridor) would probably result in greater ridership and marketshare gains and general overall utility to the region (and hopefully sustainability in the case of the River Runner). Taking the train to New Orleans would be fun, but 4.5hr on-time service to CHI (5-6x a day) and KC (3-4x a day) would be much more useful.
As nice as it'd be for St. Louis to have connectivity to Memphis or Indianapolis, faster, more frequent and on-time service to Chi (and KC, although that's not an "enhanced service" corridor) would probably result in greater ridership and marketshare gains and general overall utility to the region (and hopefully sustainability in the case of the River Runner). Taking the train to New Orleans would be fun, but 4.5hr on-time service to CHI (5-6x a day) and KC (3-4x a day) would be much more useful.
Seems like most of the Amtrak expansions are places that are willing to produce local funds for transit. For example, Kansas has been discussing the rail connect to Oklahoma for a while and recently did some official studies with the railroads.wabash wrote:I'd like to see Amtrak focus any increased funding on existing corridors, and maybe even eliminate a few current routes (namely parts of the Southwest Chief and Sunset Limited). Between the Covid cutbacks and new infrastructure funding this is the perfect time to assess what is and isn't in the best longterm interest of the system. It's great that the current administration is supportive of Amtrak, but another administration/party could take the exact opposite approach, and I worry that pouring funding into new service to Wichita, Macon, Montgomery, Iowa City, Duluth, Baton Rouge, Eau Claire, Asheville, and Scranton would only help the anti-Amtrak argument and hurt the longterm viability of the system. There are a couple exceptions - the trans-Ohio line and Detroit-to-Toronto could make sense (although it's not clear what Amtrak's role would be for the latter).
As nice as it'd be for St. Louis to have connectivity to Memphis or Indianapolis, faster, more frequent and on-time service to Chi (and KC, although that's not an "enhanced service" corridor) would probably result in greater ridership and marketshare gains and general overall utility to the region (and hopefully sustainability in the case of the River Runner). Taking the train to New Orleans would be fun, but 4.5hr on-time service to CHI (5-6x a day) and KC (3-4x a day) would be much more useful.
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I long to see the day when they can again take the train to Chicago. Or Kansas City or Cincinnati for that matter.
I want to say in previous years the Blues have also used trains for East Coast series or to get between Toronto and Montreal.symphonicpoet wrote: ↑Apr 21, 2021I long to see the day when they can again take the train to Chicago. Or Kansas City or Cincinnati for that matter.