Centene Corporation HQs

jshank83 · PostDec 16, 2020#15512020-12-16T19:39+00:00

jbacott wrote: ↑
Dec 15, 2020
Might be cynical, but Nierdorff's comments have always struck me as being about providing him cover and justification for when he relocates HQ to Charlotte. It seems like he has a history of taking advantage of certain narratives he's created as leverage for a secondary motive. Ballpark Village flirtation came after he wrestled with Clayton on their original plans. He threatened that jobs would be lost if he didn't get the deal he wanted, floated relocation to other states and ultimately played the city against the county all to land his HQ in the exact spot he originally intended.

Suddenly taking a much more public stance on crime problems in the city that served as their HQ during their explosive growth phase seemed like convenient way to justify the Charlotte investment, which was mostly about the massive incentives. Announcing that they're halting further building in Clayton again seems to be greasing the wheels when most people probably realized they never had intent on building things like the auditorium and the public atriums, etc.

You can sort through this very thread and see how many times they've done the dance

Like you say - Ballpark village flirtation and threatening to move he used as leverage to get what he wanted from Clayton.

This could be the same thing over again to get something else. Saying he could move to Charlotte to get what he wants here. Seems like the same playbook as before to me.

Not saying they will or won't move but to say he is doing the same thing he has done before but this time it will play out differently isn't a great comparison to me.

urban_dilettante · PostDec 16, 2020#15522020-12-16T19:56+00:00

whitherSTL wrote: ↑
Dec 16, 2020
^Agreed. She basically told Centene and that Charlotte is a better option.

“Lovely city”.....so odd. Maybe she now hates STL and can’t wait to get the F out too.

i think it's pretty clear that she's saying "I'm sure Charlotte is a lovely city but the real reason is the $400 million subsidy."

gone corporate · PostDec 16, 2020#15532020-12-16T22:00+00:00

Here's a reminder to what Centene has done in the very recent past:
Opening of the $25MM Centene Ferguson Service Center in 2016, two years after the corporation committed to hands-on work in Ferguson as a direct response to everything related to the Michael Brown Verdicts in 2014.

They put their money where their mouth is.

Last June, Michael Neidorff had a solid CNBC interview calling for more investment in urban education.
CNBC: Centene CEO calls for better education for at-risk youth as one solution to racial disparities

How does STL keep Centene a local company?
Neidorff has told us how: We help the STL poor and disenfranchised get better education and better opportunities to work.

brianadler6545 · PostDec 16, 2020#15542020-12-16T22:24+00:00

gone corporate wrote:Here's a reminder to what Centene has done in the very recent past:
Opening of the $25MM Centene Ferguson Service Center in 2016, two years after the corporation committed to hands-on work in Ferguson as a direct response to everything related to the Michael Brown Verdicts in 2014.

They put their money where their mouth is.

Last June, Michael Neidorff had a solid CNBC interview calling for more investment in urban education.
CNBC: Centene CEO calls for better education for at-risk youth as one solution to racial disparities

How does STL keep Centene a local company?
Neidorff has told us how: We help the STL poor and disenfranchised get better education and better opportunities to work.

I really agree with your final point there. That is truly what we have to do.

On Centene and their CEO, though, I think the only real answer is that it is kind of nuanced. They both put their money where their mouth is and then they also don't.

That center is a great contribution. But they they also say they are going to develop this or that and then they don't actually do it.

So we have reason to admire and appreciate some of their follow through, but also plenty of reason to doubt that they will follow through elsewhere.

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quincunx · PostDec 17, 2020#15552020-12-17T13:44+00:00

I'm not impressed by their Ferguson site choice. Yes, it is within the city limits, but an island next to a highway. W Florissant and Ferguson Ave would have made a statement.

Feels like the back-parring Metro did when they opened the transfer center in Ferguson. "We did something! #Ferguson"

Capture+_2020-12-17-07-34-26~2.png (3.24MiB)

sc4mayor · PostDec 28, 2020#15562020-12-28T14:49+00:00

Messenger on Centene:
https://www.stltoday.com/news/local/col ... c06d2.html

whitherSTL · PostDec 28, 2020#15572020-12-28T17:52+00:00

sc4mayor wrote: ↑
Dec 28, 2020
Messenger on Centene:
https://www.stltoday.com/news/local/col ... c06d2.html

That column didn’t further the topic at all in my opinion.

sc4mayor · PostDec 28, 2020#15582020-12-28T18:33+00:00

^ One could say the same thing for most of your posts here. Opinions are like a**holes. Everyone has one and they all stink.

I actually think it makes sense for the local media to dive into these numbers. If Neidorff is going to make his business decisions in STL and Charlotte based on (in his own telling) crime...then let’s have a look at what his darling on the East Coast is doing.

Turns out not much better, especially when comparing the metro stats. No one is arguing that STL has deeper issues than Charlotte to figure out, it’s been stated here repeatedly. But Neidorff seems more interested in publicly b*tching about them, abandoning Civic Progress, etc then actually furthering any legit changes. Of course he’s pushing some secretive bullsh*t behind the scenes without any public input...which has worked wonders in STL’s past...like Better Together and airport privatization. Or the joint policing initiative he championed that blew up in his face this past fall.

The point is, what’s happened in most large US cities this year (a shocking rise in violence) seems to undercut his primary argument. Now, had he been smart enough to make that argument about the region’s crushing fragmentation, poor educational opportunities for many of the region’s children, our poor population growth, etc., I might be willing to give him a bit more leeway. Instead he picked the one issue that riles up all the rubes in the suburbs but that can’t be solved without addressing said fragmentation, education, poverty, etc.

Crime is not a singular issue that can just be waived away by more cops or some crap. You have to address the root causes and Neidorff seems to have no interest in that.

whitherSTL · PostDec 28, 2020#15592020-12-28T19:50+00:00

Thanks for the shoutout. Charlotte right now has 121 murders and the city, not the county, the city of STL has over 250.

And our crime is similar??!

OnTheEdge · PostDec 28, 2020#15602020-12-28T19:58+00:00

^^ I strongly agree with the sentiment that it can't be solve without addressing fragmentation, and agree with most of what you say here, but at the same time Neidorff can't do it all himself.

I think the only way fragmentation is adequately addressed is when a sizeable percentage of county residents understand that the long term gain of some sort of unification is more valuable than the cost. Until that happens, it's going to be politically unpopular and the county won't have the leadership to get the ball rolling.

Though, I will say that I think people in the region are starting to understand this better, even if slowly, it's at least in a positive direction. But it can't happen fast enough if you ask me.

sc4mayor · PostDec 28, 2020#15612020-12-28T20:08+00:00

^^ Murders are one aspect of crime...are you not familiar with how statistics work?

In 2018, the Charlotte region, with a population of 2.6 million, reported 427 violent crimes per 100,000 people. Those include murders, rapes, robberies and aggravated assaults. The St. Louis metro area, with 2.8 million residents, reported slightly more, at 455.

The numbers mean that a metro Charlotte resident has a 1-in-234 chance of becoming a victim of violent crime, while the figure is 1-in-220 in the St. Louis metro area, Rosenfeld said. "The probability of being threatened, harmed or killed by violence is quite small, regardless of whether you happen to live in the Charlotte or St. Louis metro area," he said, adding that aggregate figures are "small solace to someone who has been killed or their family or friends."

Among large metros examined, Baltimore's rate was highest, at 720 violent crimes per 100,000. Portland's was lowest, at 114.

https://www.bizjournals.com/stlouis/new ... 9#cxrecs_s

No one is arguing the high crime and the significantly higher murder rate in St. Louis. Just that the chances of an average citizen being the victim of a violent crime isn't hugely different between St. Louis and Charlotte. The statistics bare this out. Neidorff seems to be ignoring that in an effort to create this narrative so he can leave town while doing nothing more than some perfunctory "policing reform" behind closed doors while he completely ignores the real issues like fragmentation and public schooling (among other things).

^ Totally agree with you...it takes a village so to speak.

whitherSTL · PostDec 28, 2020#15622020-12-28T20:16+00:00

Being killed by someone is awful because one’s life ends.

And it seems to me that if metropolitan areas are taken into account, one is 3X as likely to get killed in metro STL than metro Charlotte.

moorlander · PostDec 28, 2020#15632020-12-28T20:59+00:00

whitherSTL wrote:Being killed by someone is awful because one’s life ends.

And it seems to me that if metropolitan areas are taken into account, one is 3X as likely to get killed in metro STL than metro Charlotte.

Metro stats

https://listwithclever.com/research/mos ... in-the-us/

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chriss752 · PostJan 01, 2021#15642021-01-01T20:22+00:00

On the sidewalk in front of Cantina Laredo and Pastaria (really that whole frontage on Forsyth), it appears that they installed a heated sidewalk. It was steaming when I just went by.

framer · PostJan 01, 2021#15652021-01-01T22:07+00:00

^Well, I guess that makes up for the theater, office tower, and hotel.

tztag · PostJan 02, 2021#15662021-01-02T15:11+00:00

They installed heated sidewalks at Carondelet and Hanley too. I’m so frustrated that we ended up with massive blank wall #2, an insane amount of parking, and a bunch of city bashing out of this project.

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jshank83 · PostJan 04, 2021#15672021-01-04T14:58+00:00

Well Centene sure isn’t short on cash apparently.

Spending 2.2 billion on Magellan.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.stltod ... 3.amp.html

dbInSouthCity · PostJan 04, 2021#15682021-01-04T15:48+00:00

jshank83 wrote: ↑
Jan 04, 2021
Well Centene sure isn’t short on cash apparently.

Spending 2.2 billion on Magellan.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.stltod ... 3.amp.html

its probably not short on cash but it is used debt for this buy

dredger · PostJan 04, 2021#15692021-01-04T18:22+00:00

^ With debt being cheap these days I can see why they rather go that route and instead of giving up some hard cold cash.

Veer way off topic but it is still strange to me how most of the country could have a pretty good housing market in a middle of a pandemic. Yet, when you look at mortgage rates anyone renting with some stability, savings and a job should be buying a house. To try and get back to thread topic, I guess no different for corporations and wonder if Centene is pursuing a few others, even small acquisitions? Centene with a a strong balance sheet and incoming POTUS that I assume would push to expand medicare seems to be in an ideal situation as a corporate predator.

wabash · PostJan 04, 2021#15702021-01-04T18:45+00:00

Despite the ill will Neidorff and Centene have sown with their crime commentary, Charlotte fawning and development delays, it's always good to see a St. Louis company growing and entering new business lines.

gone corporate · PostJan 04, 2021#15712021-01-04T19:17+00:00

As a stock, CNC is really fascinating right now. It has a Price/Book Ratio of 1.35, which indicates that its stock price is not much higher than the entire company's net asset valuation. This measure usually indicates growth at a fair value. I use this figure to gauge what companies are actually buyout targets, usually looking at companies with P/Bs under 2 as potential acquisitions. Here, the P/B definitely indicates that its competitors could buy CNC at a real good price, but it's so damn big right now that I'm not sure if anyone wants to buy them out. It's just not often that a Fortune 50 company could be a viable buyout target. Meanwhile, she doesn't pay a dividend, and she still isn't at the price she had when she acquired WellPoint last year.

framer · PostJan 04, 2021#15722021-01-04T20:38+00:00

Express Scripts was bigger, but they got bought out easily enough.

jshank83 · PostJan 20, 2021#15732021-01-20T02:52+00:00

I drove by Centene for the first time in awhile. How many of those store fronts on the new garages are actually storefronts? I can't tell if some are fake or not.

SRQ2STL · PostJan 24, 2021#15742021-01-24T13:49+00:00

jshank83 wrote: ↑
Jan 20, 2021
I drove by Centene for the first time in awhile. How many of those store fronts on the new garages are actually storefronts? I can't tell if some are fake or not.

I think the bigger question is..how many of these storefronts will actually ever see commerce happening within? That stretch of Forsyth is not accomodating at all for a lively retail/restaurant district. This whole Centene project was poorly thought-out. It's the biggest disappointment of the decade.

jshank83 · PostJan 24, 2021#15752021-01-24T16:27+00:00

SRQ2STL wrote: ↑
Jan 24, 2021
jshank83 wrote: ↑
Jan 20, 2021
I drove by Centene for the first time in awhile. How many of those store fronts on the new garages are actually storefronts? I can't tell if some are fake or not.
I think the bigger question is..how many of these storefronts will actually ever see commerce happening within? That stretch of Forsyth is not accomodating at all for a lively retail/restaurant district. This whole Centene project was poorly thought-out. It's the biggest disappointment of the decade.

I think if they cut that road down to 2 lanes with a turn lane it would be okay. You have storefronts on both sides once you get closer to the east end, with the potential the two open lots will get built on at some point on the north side of the road. Just needs a road diet. They are supposed to be giving Maryland one so it isn’t like Clayton would be against doing that.

Edit: Even without the diet it’s doable. The other restaurant areas of Clayton have some 4 lane roads and they seem fine. But it would help. I think it’s more about getting both sides activated than the location.

Centene Corporation HQs

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