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PostDec 15, 2020#1526

Here is an interesting ranking of "most dangerous metros". They try to combine crime along with natural disasters and even transportation risk.  Not sure I understand why they rank St. Louis natural disaster risk about double the Nashville risk, especially in light of the tornado that hit Nashville last year.  Maybe because of river flooding, but it may not be clear to them that a tiny per cent of the St. Louis metro is in river bottoms and few residents are affected by river flooding.  This isn't New Orleans.  

Interesting too that they weight property crime at half of violent crime with their rationale.  The FBI used to rank them equally in their index probably because while a violent crime incident is bad, they are also a lot less likely to happen to a resident than a property crime.  St. Louis property crime is always very low -- but I'm not sure why.  

Charlotte ranks a little safer in the total ranking but not so much because of crime.  It's driven more by having half the natural disaster risk than St. Louis, similar to Nashville.  Hmmm.  Really?  They say they just count up the number of natural disasters for a metro.   But I would argue a flood in St. Louis is nothing like a flood in say New Orleans.

https://listwithclever.com/research/most-dangerous-and-safest-metros-in-the-us/?utm_campaign=existing
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PostDec 15, 2020#1527

Centene is just playing a long game.

Managed healthcare is an extremely low margin business. Centene will now have two of its largest corporate footprints in the two states with the lowest corporate taxes in the country (NC @ 2.5% and MO @ 4%). So they get to play the two off each other better. Announce a bunch of hires in NC to put pressure on MO, announce a bunch of hires in MO to put pressure on NC. Having the two locations not only increases their corporate resiliency (something they're probably thinking about more as a Fortune 100 company than they were 5 years ago when the first reports about Phase II was coming out and they had yet to acquire Fidelis or WellCare), but also increases their leverage in an age of tax incentives, tax abatements, corporate tax cuts, and general corporate lobbying and influence. 

I'd prefer if Centene just doubled down on St. Louis like any number of large, admired Fortune 100 companies in mid-sized cities (or the largest company in the country, with 1/2 trillion in revenue, which is based in Bentonville, Arkansas). But I guess they're not taking that approach. 

Centene now has more leverage over the two lowest corporate tax states in the country for their next round of hires, office building construction, basically whatever they want to do. I don't think they're planning on leaving either. They are in exactly the position they want to be. 
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PostDec 15, 2020#1528

Bottom line, Neidorff is telling the powers-that-be that STL has a problem that needs to be solved with more than just lip service. He also has the corporate muscle to get action where the constituency at large has been immobile. And, if changes aren't made to address this problem, then he can make his threat real. I believe he would prefer for STL to get its crime problem in order more than he would like to relocate Centene to Charlotte or anywhere else. Remember, it takes more than just one corporate leader of a publicly traded company to execute such a business strategy all the way to completion. He's not a King, he's a CEO, and CEOs can be fired. What he really is doing is filling up a local leadership vacuum and trying to force change where we all know it's needed. 

Everyone knows that STL has a lot of concentrated crime, both City and County, and it didn't take Neidorff saying so for everyone to acknowledge the elephant in the room. There are legacy reasons for it going back over a hundred years, including the Great Divorce between the City and County, but what remains today are Crime and Inaction. Now, with a very real economic threat against STL, maybe we can see action taken to finally address this in a very real manner. 

Endgame: City and County Police Departments working as one. 


Edit: I think this whole thing belongs just as much in the Crime thread as it does in the Centene Expansion thread, maybe a new thread altogether. 
After all, what's more important to this user base, urban crime or Clayton corporate real estate? 
And I can't believe I'm the one who has to be saying these things... 
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PostDec 15, 2020#1529

^ It’s not like crime isn’t talked about here that it’s become an elephant in the room type of situation. It’s a constant top of mind topic but what’s not talked about is how to fix it because nobody really wants to do the real work to fix it. So the solution that he and every other scared white person is pitching is MORE POLICE!!! or combined city/county PD will do it. It won’t solve sh*t. Police have no real role to play when it comes to crime reduction
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PostDec 15, 2020#1530

Count me as someone who definitely wants more police; lots more! And more cameras (on buildings as well as on police officers). And a return to traffic enforcement. And automatic prison time for gun crimes. And yes, combining the City and County forces, too.

I realize it won't "fix it", but it's a start. 

PostDec 15, 2020#1531

BTW, the police do indeed have a primary role in crime reduction: It's called getting criminals off the streets. Unfortunately, our court system is all too quick to put them right back out there.
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PostDec 15, 2020#1532

^ exhibit 1
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PostDec 15, 2020#1533

Agree in degrees with the both of y'all. I think the consensus is that deliberate actions must be taken to address crime more proactively. STL Metro absolutely needs to work - together - to reduce crime and the image of the region as dangerous. I'd be in favor of a dual-pronged approach, one that works to increase quality of life and opportunities to those most susceptible to falling down the wrong path, and increasing policing so that it actually takes more criminals off the streets. I'm not thinking that some "silver bullet" idea will work, but dammit we need to see real steps taken that, cumulatively, will decrease the crime. If we don't, then we'll all lose. Most of all, inaction will further lose us our corporate base. 
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PostDec 15, 2020#1534

We have actual evidence that more police didn’t reduce crime- the the latest story from
the post dispatch how much/little all the additional police from the feds/operation LeGend did to reduce crime. Not much at all, crime pretty much followed the same annual pattern.

(Feds did this neat little trick where they compared crime from 90 days before and 90 days after the operation started, totally ignoring that it’s a meaningless comp, which was why the Post looked into it and did a year to year comp and noticed the same pattern as before)
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PostDec 15, 2020#1535

^Well, if nothing's working, then what will? Because Centene has put STL on the clock to do something. 
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PostDec 15, 2020#1536

More police presence= more deterrent to criminals usually. Perception is reality. PD cannot be everywhere at every time. Tell those people in North City that sleep in their bathtubs to dodge bullets, we do not need police.
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PostDec 15, 2020#1537

The heavy money in Vegas is on complete inaction fueled by idealistic hatred of corporations by our Leftist leaders and Centene leaves. Simple as that.
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PostDec 15, 2020#1538

DogtownBnR wrote: ↑
Dec 15, 2020
More police presence= more deterrent to criminals usually. Perception is reality. PD cannot be everywhere at every time. Tell those people in North City that sleep in their bathtubs to dodge bullets, we do not need police.
Who said that we don’t need police?

One the reason we are in the situation we find our selves right now is because a large number of people in north city don’t trust the police (for a lot of valid reasons) and because of that crimes don’t get solved. But solving crimes is just half the battled. There is no solution until there is significant investment on the north city (and no a fortified federal spy agency ain’t gonna get the job done)
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PostDec 15, 2020#1539

At least from my own personal experience, there are plenty of people, black, white, etc., that would like to see increased police presence. Personally, I think it's a slippery slope because police do serve a function in society but they've been given a lot of power that has been abused repeatedly.  On a related note to crime, people like to proclaim what won't work but those same people won't ever offer ideas on how to fix the issues at hand.
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PostDec 15, 2020#1540

whitherSTL wrote: ↑
Dec 15, 2020
The heavy money in Vegas is on complete inaction fueled by idealistic hatred of corporations by our Leftist leaders and Centene leaves. Simple as that.
Well, unlike you I prefer not to get on my knees and suck off their CEO every time he looks for a reason to leave without admitting it’s because he got a $500,000,000 gravy boat in NC (ironically given to him by leftist city and state Governor)
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PostDec 15, 2020#1541

whitherSTL wrote: ↑
Dec 15, 2020
The heavy money in Vegas is on complete inaction fueled by idealistic hatred of corporations by our Leftist leaders and Centene leaves. Simple as that.
You forgot the part where MoLeg fiddles.
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PostDec 16, 2020#1542

dbInSouthCity wrote: ↑
Dec 15, 2020
We have actual evidence that more police didn’t reduce crime- the the latest story from
the post dispatch how much/little all the additional police from the feds/operation LeGend did to reduce crime. Not much at all, crime pretty much followed the same annual pattern.

(Feds did this neat little trick where they compared crime from 90 days before and 90 days after the operation started, totally ignoring that it’s a meaningless comp, which was why the Post looked into it and did a year to year comp and noticed the same pattern as before)
it's pretty clear that STL needs both police and systemic change, but you're conflating STL's police dysfunction with general ineffectiveness. even with unprecedented investment in North City over the next 20 years, the rolling gun battles that claim innocent lives are not going away any time soon because, as discussed previously, those currently involved with or exposed to drug and gang culture are not suddenly gonna go to college. that culture is not going away until there is sufficient distance between it and black youth. and minimizing people's immediate safety concerns—god forbid anybody not want to be gunned down while trying to drive to work to make ends meet—as those of "scared white people" isn't helping sh*t.
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PostDec 16, 2020#1543

dbInSouthCity wrote: ↑
Dec 15, 2020
whitherSTL wrote: ↑
Dec 15, 2020
The heavy money in Vegas is on complete inaction fueled by idealistic hatred of corporations by our Leftist leaders and Centene leaves. Simple as that.
Well, unlike you I prefer not to get on my knees and suck off their CEO every time he looks for a reason to leave without admitting it’s because he got a $500,000,000 gravy boat in NC (ironically given to him by leftist city and state Governor)
Then let them go. Screw it. I’m used to it. Just like most defeatist St. Louisans.
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PostDec 16, 2020#1544

I love St. Louis, and I'm staying in St. Louis, but St. Louis made its bed and now it has to sleep in it.

I still don't understand how this city was okay with essentially chopping off its left arm and left leg.... oftentimes under the guise of progress.

I don't understand it. I really don't. They let this situation sit and rot and fester. And now it's a full blown infection.

Again, I love St. Louis and I am staying, but I had a gun go off NEXT DOOR to me two nights ago. Pretty sure the gunman was trying to kill my neighbor, for reasons I don't know. But this was on the side of the house my children sleep on. And this was Tower Grove South, not North City.

St. Louis needs to wake up and smell the roses. We need investment in North City and parts of South City. We need social services. We need major investment in the school system. And for f's sake, we need cops. It's actually insane how many people drive around with expired tags. How many people don't stop at stop signs or stop lights.

Anyway, I blame Missouri about three or four times more than I blame St. Louis leadership - which is absolutely horrible all on its own.

Sent from my SM-A716U using Tapatalk

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PostDec 16, 2020#1545

Much of this belongs in the crime thread. What we have been doing for the last half century has not worked. Three things I would wish for:

Focus incentives on small projects that shore up what’s left of north (and south) St. Louis rather than luxury towers in the central corridor. People will return to these neighborhoods and will create the stakeholder community that has been lost.

Figure out a way to create a regional metro school system. We should all be responsible for all the children of St. Louis. The next generation is already being taught segregation based on race, income and zip code. Show the kids in disinvested neighborhoods that they matter just as much.

When juveniles are caught committing crime, figure out the root causes and intervene. Rehabilitation rather than punishment should be priority.

Do things with a long term benefit. Not just the current reactionary approach to crime.
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PostDec 16, 2020#1546

Krewson responds:
https://www.stltoday.com/business/local ... 1363c.html
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PostDec 16, 2020#1547

Crime is a symptom, not the problem. The problem is concentrated poverty. The problem is lack of opportunity. The problem is racism. The problem is that in the region it is always someone else’s fault rather than recognizing that it is everyone’s fault and that everyone needs to be part of the solution.

I appreciate Centene for pushing the region’s leaders to do better. It is better than Clayco, which bashed the region on its way out the door to downtown Chicago, complaining they couldn’t recruit talent, without acknowledging that their office in a soul sucking office park along a highway might have been part of the talent issue. Clayco blamed others and bailed rather than recognizing that is was part of them problem and needed to be part of the solution.

It is better than many other large corporations in St. Louis that want the region to improve but then put their offices in parts of the region wholly inaccessible to many and unattractive to the talent they profess to want (Bunge, MasterCard, etc. ).

I just hope we get more out of this than consolidation of the city and county police forces. The region needs something bigger and bolder. The last consolidation push, for all its flaws, was on the right track.

But, it also means Centene needs to come to the table with more, because the stick of losing a single major corporation has never done enough to motivate the leadership to change. We need multiple stick and carrots. More corporations who are willing to pull out if things don’t change. More corporations who are willing to locate in the area inside of 170 and north of 44 if things do. More local hiring and training commitments. More investment.
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PostDec 16, 2020#1548

gone corporate wrote: ↑
Dec 15, 2020
Bottom line, Neidorff is telling the powers-that-be that STL has a problem that needs to be solved with more than just lip service. He also has the corporate muscle to get action where the constituency at large has been immobile. And, if changes aren't made to address this problem, then he can make his threat real. I believe he would prefer for STL to get its crime problem in order more than he would like to relocate Centene to Charlotte or anywhere else. Remember, it takes more than just one corporate leader of a publicly traded company to execute such a business strategy all the way to completion. He's not a King, he's a CEO, and CEOs can be fired. What he really is doing is filling up a local leadership vacuum and trying to force change where we all know it's needed. 

Everyone knows that STL has a lot of concentrated crime, both City and County, and it didn't take Neidorff saying so for everyone to acknowledge the elephant in the room. There are legacy reasons for it going back over a hundred years, including the Great Divorce between the City and County, but what remains today are Crime and Inaction. Now, with a very real economic threat against STL, maybe we can see action taken to finally address this in a very real manner. 

Endgame: City and County Police Departments working as one. 
I don't think that's Neirdorff's endgame though. I think his endgame has been in play for quite some time which is to justify the move to Charlotte.  Crime is an easy red herring to throw out there because no matter what happens, he can always claim it wasn't enough considering crime is never going away. 

If his threats actually result in some positive change then bonus for us, but my opinion is that Centene isn't the type of company that makes public statements like this without a secondary agenda as demonstrated by their methods to get what they want over the past decade.
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PostDec 16, 2020#1549

sc4mayor wrote: ↑
Dec 16, 2020
Krewson responds:
https://www.stltoday.com/business/local ... 1363c.html
I found this quote from Krewson...  Interesting?...

“I understand Centene has to make the decision that’s best for its stockholders, and they did get a $400 million subsidy in Charlotte, the biggest in the state’s history, but that said, Charlotte’s a lovely city, and Mr. Neidorff is correct, there is way too much violence in our community and in the region,” Krewson said.
I kept waiting for the "but, this is what St. Louis does have...." statement, but she either didn't deliver it or the post didn't report it.  ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
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PostDec 16, 2020#1550

^Agreed. She basically told Centene and that Charlotte is a better option.

“Lovely city”.....so odd. Maybe she now hates STL and can’t wait to get the F out too.
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