urbanSTL

ldai_phs wrote: ↑

Oct 30, 2020

sc4mayor wrote:^ I would venture to guess no...an article in the PD a couple years back said that most newer buildings weren't using it and were installing their own systems.  At one point they had over 130 buildings downtown on the "loop" as it's called.  Today it's around 70 or fewer buildings.  There's been some talk of legislation that would require downtown buildings to use the steam loop if the city provides incentives for their projects...but I don't think that ever went anywhere.

But I also wouldn't say it's not possible...Busch Stadium and dozens of hotels use it.  So it's not like it's totally out of the realm of possibility.

Residential buildings stay away for some reason. The weirdest thing I saw when I first got started were downtown apartment buildings with 100+ individual AC units

Well, unless it's an old building that's already connected, what developer would gamble on the steam plant being in operation 5-10 years from now?

Of course, you could have a boiler or individual unit water heaters as a backup, but then what would be the point in connecting in the first place?

urbanitas wrote: ↑

Oct 30, 2020

ldai_phs wrote: ↑

Oct 30, 2020

sc4mayor wrote:^ I would venture to guess no...an article in the PD a couple years back said that most newer buildings weren't using it and were installing their own systems.  At one point they had over 130 buildings downtown on the "loop" as it's called.  Today it's around 70 or fewer buildings.  There's been some talk of legislation that would require downtown buildings to use the steam loop if the city provides incentives for their projects...but I don't think that ever went anywhere.

But I also wouldn't say it's not possible...Busch Stadium and dozens of hotels use it.  So it's not like it's totally out of the realm of possibility.

Residential buildings stay away for some reason. The weirdest thing I saw when I first got started were downtown apartment buildings with 100+ individual AC units

Well, unless it's an old building that's already connected, what developer would gamble on the steam plant being in operation 5-10 years from now?

Of course, you could have a boiler or individual unit water heaters as a backup, but then what would be the point in connecting in the first place?

Could you just leave space to install a boiler in the future if needed? Use that space as storage or something else now?

No clue how feasible that is.

sc4mayor wrote:I’m not going to pretend to be an expert but district heating has been pretty popular over the last several years. I’ll be the first to say that the current steam loop has lost some business but it is one of the cleaner ways to heat large buildings downtown. The Ashley Street Power House ditched coal back in the 70s...It’s much cleaner to use that plant for heating downtown buildings than having each individual building buying their own power.

Kansas City has a similar system that is privately owned and operated. Some of the new high rises and other projects in the downtown are tied to it (along with factories across the river and the old buildings downtown). They even laid an expansion line in the past year.


District heating and cooling can be cheaper and is more efficient than stand alone systems. That bill to require big projects that receive incentives to use it sounds like a good start.

jshank83 wrote: ↑

Oct 31, 2020

Could you just leave space to install a boiler in the future if needed? Use that space as storage or something else now?

No clue how feasible that is.

Boilers are large and very heavy, but sure, if the space can be accessed, like off of a parking garage or a basement with a mechanical well. The cost of the boiler itself is small compared to all of the necessary infrastructure and space requirements though, so...

urbanitas wrote:Remember also that the Ashley plant was shut down last year during the Stanley Cup, due to the high river stage, forcing a lot of the downtown hotels to either go without hot water or to park temporary boilers outside in the street. 

I'm guessing that will have an impact on future decisions to connect to the steam loop.

That is a bad look for the system. Would it be possible to build some sort of new steam plant in a better location? It could just be a pony system.

^ Yep, looks good.  Gives me some confidence for Phase 3.  I think it's been brought up before, but the one gripe is the giant blank wall along Broadway.  I can't imagine anything can ever be done with that...it just sucks that stretch is flanked by garages on both sides.  As with most things recently, though, infinitely better than what was previously there.

I got a drone yesterday and sent it up today.

OMG; Chris got a drone! This is gonna be great!

framer wrote:OMG; Chris got a drone! This is gonna be great!

Oh yes. You know it.

Just make sure you have all the permits!  Most of downtown is within the controlled airspace for Parks airport, so you can't (or at least legally shouldn't) fly drones above 200 feet without prior FAA approval.  Check out AirMap to see the different height requirements: https://app.airmap.com/geo?38.594365,-9 ... 12.500000z

chriss752 wrote: ↑

Nov 03, 2020

That is, by far, the best image I have seen on that display.

^Totally agreed. Well done Chris. Great shots. Great city. 

One Cardinal Way leasing update: 86% leased (43 apartments remain to be leased).

^ Great to hear.  Now let's get that Two Cardinal Way announcement!

chriss752 wrote: ↑

Dec 15, 2020

One Cardinal Way leasing update: 86% leased (43 apartments remain to be leased).

A bit interesting, according to the website, 57 of the 297 apartments at One Cardinal Way are available. Vacancy went up. Now sitting at 81% occupancy/leased.

Not overly surprising with COVID, uncertainty over what the next baseball season will look like (both from a schedule perspective and just how competitive the team may be0, and what appears to be an inevitable labor stoppage the following year.  

Laife Fulk wrote: ↑

Jan 03, 2021

Not overly surprising with COVID, uncertainty over what the next baseball season will look like (both from a schedule perspective and just how competitive the team may be0, and what appears to be an inevitable labor stoppage the following year.  

I think you’re way over thinking what your average ballpark village apartment prospect is thinking about

When I was walking back from the Dobbs on Broadway last Thursday morning, I heard the very tail end of a conversation from some contractors outside One Cardinal Way that mentioned a building somewhere being struck by gunfire.  I was in a hurry (to get to Pharaoh's) and just gave the building a brief glance.  The furthest southern unit facing Broadway on the 2nd or 3rd residential floor appears to have a damaged window.  It was hard to tell for sure what the damage was from where I was on the sidewalk, but it kind of looked like the shattering you see when a window gets hit with a bullet.

As I said though, I couldn't see the window super well and might be completely wrong about One Cardinal Way getting hit (maybe the window wasn't even damaged and I was just seeing things ).  If the building was hit with gunfire recently, however, I don't imagine any of the tenants would have had the opportunity to finalize breaking their leases yet with the holidays going on.

We just gave the police $6000 a year raise few years ago and that’s gone well in reducing crime.......


Downtown is doing just fine, once covid is in the past it will be back to what it was in 2019, on a roll. It was packed today with people all over the arch grounds, you had to wait to get a seat at Chris’, blondies and rooster

chriss752 wrote:
Interesting to see Cordish planning on bringing the Spark Coworking concept to BPV. They’re about ready to open the location in KC. I imagine ours will go in the PwC Pennant Building.

This is more or less confirmed now. Building permits reveal it will go on the 9th floor of the PwC building. $1.1 Million building permit applied for on December 29th but has not yet been issued.