Now coming Summer 2022
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Updated site plan shows El Burro Loco taking this space.moorlander wrote: ↑May 26, 2020P.F. Chang’s close permenantly
Phase 2 will have a Pedestrian Plaza in it now.
The updated rendering and a few observations...
- Office building shrunk (now up to 115,000sf with 22,000sf of retail on the first floor).
- Despite the reduction in office space, the design remains the same as we have seen previously.
- Apartment building was redesigned some and seems to have gained more apartments by placing some on top of the garage.
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I like it a lot. Especially the apartments added on top the garage. Good use of space.
This is also reminiscent of some more dense mixed use areas in Los Angeles. I think it is a pretty good look.
Hopefully this gets built before 2030 given their record.
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This is also reminiscent of some more dense mixed use areas in Los Angeles. I think it is a pretty good look.
Hopefully this gets built before 2030 given their record.
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^^^So, that's an interesting choice. The plan forThe Boulevard - Phase II, does not, in fact, include a boulevard. They just did away with the main feature of the development and replaced part of it with a surface parking lot...
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I....think...it's...already...on...a Boulevard?urbanitas wrote: ↑Nov 11, 2020^^^So, that's an interesting choice. The plan forThe Boulevard - Phase II, does not, in fact, include a boulevard. They just did away with the main feature of the development and replaced part of it with a surface parking lot...
Misplaced snark aside, you think the development was named for the raceway that it doesn't face, or the feature that it does face, aka "The Boulevard", which was to run the whole length of all three phases from Galleria Parkway to Red Bud Ave.?Bart Harley Jarvis wrote: ↑Nov 12, 2020I....think...it's...already...on...a Boulevard?urbanitas wrote: ↑Nov 11, 2020^^^So, that's an interesting choice. The plan forThe Boulevard - Phase II, does not, in fact, include a boulevard. They just did away with the main feature of the development and replaced part of it with a surface parking lot...
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boulevardurbanitas wrote: ↑Nov 13, 2020Misplaced snark aside, you think the development was named for the raceway that it doesn't face, or the feature that it does face, aka "The Boulevard", which was to run the whole length of all three phases from Galleria Parkway to Red Bud Ave.?Bart Harley Jarvis wrote: ↑Nov 12, 2020I....think...it's...already...on...a Boulevard?urbanitas wrote: ↑Nov 11, 2020^^^So, that's an interesting choice. The plan forThe Boulevard - Phase II, does not, in fact, include a boulevard. They just did away with the main feature of the development and replaced part of it with a surface parking lot...
[ bool-uh-vahrd, boo-luh- ]
noun
a broad avenue in a city, usually having areas at the sides or center for trees, grass, or flowers.
Phase 1 also doesn't include said boulevard.
All this pedantry about boulevards aside...what’s wrong with Phase II having a pedestrian walk? That little miniature surface parking lot is a disappointment, I’ll agree with that. But I see no real harm in a short little stretch for pedestrians here.
I actually prefer the small traditional street. But that's just because I overall prefer traditional streets over pedestrian ones (coming from someone who has refused to own a car since 2016). Granted they really only work when there's a large grid of them but I still like what the Boulevard was going for. The fact that they shoved a tiny surface lot in there just... sucks.
Have to agree with aprice. The Pedestrian walk thing just doesn't seem like the best choice at end of day and think this Boulevards II would be better off with a small street, maybe a couple spots for drop off/delivery service and everyone else has to go into the parking garage versus the setup in latest plan.aprice wrote: ↑Nov 13, 2020I actually prefer the small traditional street. But that's just because I overall prefer traditional streets over pedestrian ones (coming from someone who has refused to own a car since 2016). Granted they really only work when there's a large grid of them but I still like what the Boulevard was going for. The fact that they shoved a tiny surface lot in there just... sucks.
That was the original Pace Properties concept. A four-block-long street with a "festival atmosphere" including live music, street performers, a mixture of small shops, cafes and restaurants with outdoor dining, all with apartments and offices above. Of course, they needed a few large retail anchors at the ends to bring in the traffic, but the whole "Boulevard" experience was to culminate in a hotel or residential high-rise next to I-64.aprice wrote: ↑Nov 13, 2020I actually prefer the small traditional street. But that's just because I overall prefer traditional streets over pedestrian ones (coming from someone who has refused to own a car since 2016). Granted they really only work when there's a large grid of them but I still like what the Boulevard was going for. The fact that they shoved a tiny surface lot in there just... sucks.
Rather than the pedestrian plaza, they could have simply continued the Boulevard and used removable bollards during events or busy shopping and outdoor dining periods on weekends. But I'd guess the real reason was that some prospective tenant just has to have their dedicated, adjacent surface parking lot...
Right, because marketing people use words literally...Bart Harley Jarvis wrote: ↑Nov 13, 2020boulevard
[ bool-uh-vahrd, boo-luh- ]
noun
a broad avenue in a city, usually having areas at the sides or center for trees, grass, or flowers.
Phase 1 also doesn't include said boulevard.
I suppose they could have named the development "Narrow, Festive, European-style Street", but that just doesn't have quite the same ring to it.
aprice wrote: ↑Nov 13, 2020I actually prefer the small traditional street. But that's just because I overall prefer traditional streets over pedestrian ones (coming from someone who has refused to own a car since 2016). Granted they really only work when there's a large grid of them but I still like what the Boulevard was going for. The fact that they shoved a tiny surface lot in there just... sucks.
I happen to agree with both of you...BUT, like AP said they only seem to work well when supported by a large active grid of them. This is not that, even once they finish the build-out to I-64 in the year 3,000. Brentwood Blvd is overly wide, fast and dangerous through here and the other sides are basically bordered by interstates. This is anecdotal but in my experience with Phase I that street is nearly universally empty and it seems most people are using it to primarily access the parking garage.dredger wrote:Have to agree with aprice. The Pedestrian walk thing just doesn't seem like the best choice at end of day and think this Boulevards II would be better off with a small street, maybe a couple spots for drop off/delivery service and everyone else has to go into the parking garage versus the setup in latest plan.aprice wrote:I actually prefer the small traditional street. But that's just because I overall prefer traditional streets over pedestrian ones (coming from someone who has refused to own a car since 2016). Granted they really only work when there's a large grid of them but I still like what the Boulevard was going for. The fact that they shoved a tiny surface lot in there just... sucks.
Totally agree about the parking lot but that southernmost pad is empty too (at least in the renderings) so maybe if we're lucky when that site gets developed we'll see some changes to that parking lot and it'll look a little similar to the entrance on the north side of Phase II. And for what it's worth I'm not advocating for a ped plaza, I'd be more than happy with a street...I just don't think it's going to make much of a difference here.
And truth be told...it would not be even remotely difficult to add a little street through here should they decide to. Jackhammer the ped plaza, add some curbs and connect it to the existing driveways. If the old 14th Street Mall can be given back to cars...this can be too.
While we're on the subject...here is my pipe dream for the day. "The Blvd" is extended north and runs in front of the Club Tower and the Hilton ending at Clayton Road. This would be their new entrance, allowing the Club Tower's existing lighted entrance on Brentwood to be removed. The remaining western half of the block is rebuilt as a continuation of this development or at the very least, something urban, dense and attractive.
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I got excited in 2013 when they started construction on that bank, I was hoping it was a Blvd extension. This was before I followed any STL development and urbanism news.
I share the dream of incorporating the tower and the hotel. And building some mixed use midrises in the Galleria parking lot.
I share the dream of incorporating the tower and the hotel. And building some mixed use midrises in the Galleria parking lot.
^Yeah; I wonder when the last time the Galleria lot was as full as it is in that picture.
That Building 4 Retail Pad with it's own parking lot is there to attract a unique-to-St. Louis, high-end restaurant chain, think Smith & Wollensky. The type of retailer which would elevate the status of the whole "Boulevard". Also the type of retailer which would demand a dedicated valet lot to show off their wealthy customers' shiny luxury vehicles, so you feel excluded.
Of course, that was all pre-Covid and pre-protesters marching down Brentwood chanting "Eat the Rich", so I'm not sure whether that's going to fly anymore...
Of course, that was all pre-Covid and pre-protesters marching down Brentwood chanting "Eat the Rich", so I'm not sure whether that's going to fly anymore...
To each his own I suppose, but you will not find a $40 steak at Smith & Wollensky in any case.aprice wrote: ↑Nov 17, 2020I'd take protests over a $40 steak any day.
Biz journal update on Boulevard project phase II but not sure if it adds much.
https://www.bizjournals.com/stlouis/new ... 1#cxrecs_s
https://www.bizjournals.com/stlouis/new ... 1#cxrecs_s
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Covid destroyed past plans
Switching focus to luxury apartments
200 apts
120k office
Up to 80k retail, maybe
Switching focus to luxury apartments
200 apts
120k office
Up to 80k retail, maybe
^ Thanks
You have to wonder how firm the commitment is/was for the office space. I thought that was a slam dunk. Obviously brick and mortar retail got blown up with Covid but with the assumption of a committed office anchor tenant and the amount of multi residential construction going on its tough to buy the argument that the pandemic destroyed the plans. Would be interesting to understand how much impact of having to scale back ground floor retail would make as a whole, to the overall office lease rates on a project of this scope and scale. Also thinking of similar developments such as Iron Hill where you have a varied mix of tenants intertwined with multi residential and doubt if Foundry would have ever gotten off the ground during the pandemic.
You have to wonder how firm the commitment is/was for the office space. I thought that was a slam dunk. Obviously brick and mortar retail got blown up with Covid but with the assumption of a committed office anchor tenant and the amount of multi residential construction going on its tough to buy the argument that the pandemic destroyed the plans. Would be interesting to understand how much impact of having to scale back ground floor retail would make as a whole, to the overall office lease rates on a project of this scope and scale. Also thinking of similar developments such as Iron Hill where you have a varied mix of tenants intertwined with multi residential and doubt if Foundry would have ever gotten off the ground during the pandemic.
The previous plan wasn't going to work regardless, pandemic or no.
They really should just forget about the office space, and make that 120k sf a luxury hotel and conference center. Triple the residential, and make at least half a luxury senior living mid-to-high-rise similar to the Clarendale, albeit with a large, landscaped terraced space on the roof and, ideally, on top of the garage. Retail space should be more restaurant and spa space oriented to the hotel and conference center guests and residents, perhaps with something like an indoor TopGolf virtual driving "range".
They really should just forget about the office space, and make that 120k sf a luxury hotel and conference center. Triple the residential, and make at least half a luxury senior living mid-to-high-rise similar to the Clarendale, albeit with a large, landscaped terraced space on the roof and, ideally, on top of the garage. Retail space should be more restaurant and spa space oriented to the hotel and conference center guests and residents, perhaps with something like an indoor TopGolf virtual driving "range".