Yeah, Canada's leaders had the amazing foresight to place their country in a huge empty place that few people want to live in, and nobody wants to visit from January to April...sc4mayor wrote: ↑Jul 01, 2020Well since the United States so badly ***** up its virus response...it looks like Canada will be getting both NHL hub cities. Toronto and Edmonton.
https://www.stltoday.com/sports/hockey/ ... 4465b.html
^ Only an idiot would think Toronto and Edmonton are huge empty places, but I’m not really surprised considering whose writing these comments lol. Both of these cities are denser (and in Toronto’s case, significantly larger) than St. Louis and most other US cities in contention and both got their sh*t under control which is more than you can say for the dumbasses in America. ***** idiot.
Indeed. Toronto is a GaWC Alpha City, a designation that only three U.S. cities have - Los Angeles, Chicago, and Miami (NYC is one of the world's only two Alpha++ cities, the other being London). Houston, San Francisco, and Washington, DC all rank a step lower than Toronto at Alpha-.sc4mayor wrote: ↑Jul 04, 2020^ Only an idiot would think Toronto and Edmonton are huge empty places, but I’m not really surprised considering whose writing these comments lol. Both of these cities are denser (and in Toronto’s case, significantly larger) than St. Louis and most other US cities in contention and both got their sh*t under control which is more than you can say for the dumbasses in America. ***** idiot.
Vancouver is a Beta+ city in the GaWC rankings, and Calgary is a Beta on the index - that puts those cities in the same range as U.S. cities like Philadelphia, Denver, Atlanta, Dallas, Minneapolis, and Boston.
St. Louis is classified as a Gamma city in the GaWC rankings, which is actually pretty good, relatively speaking. But it puts us behind a little more than 150 other cities in terms of global economic importance. And way behind cities like Toronto, Vancouver, and Calgary.
Also, there's no disputing at this point that the United States has had one of the worst COVID-19 responses in the world. Excluding the behemoth countries of Andorra and San Marino (combined total population ~111,000), the United States has had the 7th most deaths per capita in the world. That's out of more than 150 countries with populations of at least 1 million people. Excluding all countries whose populations are smaller than the city of St. Louis, the U.S. ranks 7th in total cases per capita in the world. Again, not good. The literal opposite of good.
By any sane measurement, the United States of America has completely sh*t the bed in its coronavirus response.
Yeah, I get it, don't let context or reality ever get in the way of an apoplectic, heel-drumming tantrum...cuz it's just so satisfying innit?sc4mayor wrote: ↑Jul 04, 2020^ Only an idiot would think Toronto and Edmonton are huge empty places, but I’m not really surprised considering whose writing these comments lol. Both of these cities are denser (and in Toronto’s case, significantly larger) than St. Louis and most other US cities in contention and both got their sh*t under control which is more than you can say for the dumbasses in America. ***** idiot.
Now shush, adults are talking.
^ See DTGstl314 and jambo’s responses.
I actually forgot I had wrote that, but I stand by it completely.
Now shut up, adults are talking.
I actually forgot I had wrote that, but I stand by it completely.
Now shut up, adults are talking.
Like I said in my last comment, I forgot about this, but since I've been pulled back into it a full 12 days later...I'll also add that Toronto is less than 2 hours from the US border. What a nonsensical comment lol.DTGstl314 wrote: ↑Jul 05, 2020Indeed. Toronto is a GaWC Alpha City, a designation that only three U.S. cities have - Los Angeles, Chicago, and Miami (NYC is one of the world's only two Alpha++ cities, the other being London). Houston, San Francisco, and Washington, DC all rank a step lower than Toronto at Alpha-.sc4mayor wrote: ↑Jul 04, 2020^ Only an idiot would think Toronto and Edmonton are huge empty places, but I’m not really surprised considering whose writing these comments lol. Both of these cities are denser (and in Toronto’s case, significantly larger) than St. Louis and most other US cities in contention and both got their sh*t under control which is more than you can say for the dumbasses in America. ***** idiot.
Vancouver is a Beta+ city in the GaWC rankings, and Calgary is a Beta on the index - that puts those cities in the same range as U.S. cities like Philadelphia, Denver, Atlanta, Dallas, Minneapolis, and Boston.
St. Louis is classified as a Gamma city in the GaWC rankings, which is actually pretty good, relatively speaking. But it puts us behind a little more than 150 other cities in terms of global economic importance. And way behind cities like Toronto, Vancouver, and Calgary.
Also, there's no disputing at this point that the United States has had one of the worst COVID-19 responses in the world. Excluding the behemoth countries of Andorra and San Marino (combined total population ~111,000), the United States has had the 7th most deaths per capita in the world. That's out of more than 150 countries with populations of at least 1 million people. Excluding all countries whose populations are smaller than the city of St. Louis, the U.S. ranks 7th in total cases per capita in the world. Again, not good. The literal opposite of good.
By any sane measurement, the United States of America has completely sh*t the bed in its coronavirus response.
That was a lot of words just to say that Canada has a couple of big cities, and the US "sh*t the bed" while Canada's is full of rose petals.DTGstl314 wrote: ↑Jul 05, 2020Indeed. Toronto is a GaWC Alpha City, a designation that only three U.S. cities have - Los Angeles, Chicago, and Miami (NYC is one of the world's only two Alpha++ cities, the other being London). Houston, San Francisco, and Washington, DC all rank a step lower than Toronto at Alpha-.
Vancouver is a Beta+ city in the GaWC rankings, and Calgary is a Beta on the index - that puts those cities in the same range as U.S. cities like Philadelphia, Denver, Atlanta, Dallas, Minneapolis, and Boston.
St. Louis is classified as a Gamma city in the GaWC rankings, which is actually pretty good, relatively speaking. But it puts us behind a little more than 150 other cities in terms of global economic importance. And way behind cities like Toronto, Vancouver, and Calgary.
Also, there's no disputing at this point that the United States has had one of the worst COVID-19 responses in the world. Excluding the behemoth countries of Andorra and San Marino (combined total population ~111,000), the United States has had the 7th most deaths per capita in the world. That's out of more than 150 countries with populations of at least 1 million people. Excluding all countries whose populations are smaller than the city of St. Louis, the U.S. ranks 7th in total cases per capita in the world. Again, not good. The literal opposite of good.
By any sane measurement, the United States of America has completely sh*t the bed in its coronavirus response.
The relatively high per capita US death toll rank is almost entirely due to the mass super-spreading event in the New York area in early March, which then spread along the high-density northeast urban corridor. The per capita death toll in the New York metro is, so far, far higher than any metro on the planet except maybe Wuhan.
If you remove the deaths and population in the New York metro and commuter rail communities, the per capita death toll for the rest of the US is only about 10% higher than Canada's.
If you do it for the whole urban, commuter rail corridor from DC to Boston, it would be the same as Canada's.
Canada has nothing like these areas. Even it's largest, high-density, consolidated urban area (the Golden Horseshoe) is smaller than Chicago metro, with similar density. And obviously, Canada in the winter sees only a tiny fraction of the international visitors and pass-throughs that the Northeast does, or even NYC for that matter.
And you emphasized that the US is ranked 7th in per capita death toll in the world, but guess what? Canada was ranked 10th - until recently when it was passed by a bunch of Latin American countries. All of those countries will pass the US too, eventually.
So, if you really believe the US pandemic results are so awful, then Canada's must be too, especially when every uncontrollable factor was in their favor...
And btw, unless you think St. Louis is a model of large, high-density urban areas, then citing Edmonton as such is hilarious. I've spent time there, and I'd rather not. It's not even half the size of metro St. Louis (and yet it's the 6th largest in Canada) and the core is only the density of the city of St. Louis.
Do you have any idea how ridiculous that sounds? The northeast megalopolis (DC to Boston corridor) is 52 million people. You're essentially saying, "If you ignore almost 1/6 of the entire U.S. population, we're basically Canada!"urbanitas wrote: ↑Jul 18, 2020If you do it for the whole urban, commuter rail corridor from DC to Boston, it would be the same as Canada's.
I'd say their CBD skyline pretty well puts ours to complete shame...urbanitas wrote: ↑Jul 18, 2020And btw, unless you think St. Louis is a model of large, high-density urban areas, then citing Edmonton as such is hilarious. I've spent time there, and I'd rather not. It's not even half the size of metro St. Louis (and yet it's the 6th largest in Canada) and the core is only the density of the city of St. Louis.
Edmonton has added nine buildings at least 350ft in height to their downtown skyline in the last 10 years - four of which are over 450ft tall - while we have added... zero.
And I would kill to have something like this in St. Louis...
.jpg/1280px-Edmonton_-_Art_Gallery_of_Alberta_(15015846212).jpg)
Also, while it is true that their metropolitan area is less than half the population of the St. Louis metro, it is also significantly smaller in land area (less than half the size). Their metro population density is 363 people/sq mile, which is a little higher than ours at 340 people/sq mile.
^ Yeah, Canadian cities are top notch.
And while I would love to sit here and argue about their wonderful cities...this was my original point.
USA:
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Canada:
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Are there other minor factors that may have led the NHL to pick two Canadian cities for their hubs? Sure, of course. But come on...if you don't think the total failure by the US in containing this thing played a role in that decision then your head is up your ass. Las Vegas and Dallas were considered the "frontrunners" at one point. I wonder what happened in those two places that took them out of contention?
And while I would love to sit here and argue about their wonderful cities...this was my original point.
USA:
Canada:
Are there other minor factors that may have led the NHL to pick two Canadian cities for their hubs? Sure, of course. But come on...if you don't think the total failure by the US in containing this thing played a role in that decision then your head is up your ass. Las Vegas and Dallas were considered the "frontrunners" at one point. I wonder what happened in those two places that took them out of contention?
All of that. It's true that Canada didn't have a great initial response either, but unlike us, they've more or less managed to get the situation under control. We haven't, at all. Not even close. Sh*t is so bad here right now that most countries in the civilized world are banning us from crossing their borders. Imagine that... the orange dotard we have running this country came into power on a white nationalist agenda promising to shield us from the horrors of brown and Muslim foreigners entering our country. And now we're the ones who have seen metaphorical border walls go up around the world to keep us out. There is an American ban in much of the world right now. We're a global laughing stock in this crisis, and the buck stops with the mental midget who is going to be receiving his severance papers from the American electorate in a little more than three months.sc4mayor wrote: ↑Jul 20, 2020^ Yeah, Canadian cities are top notch.
And while I would love to sit here and argue about their wonderful cities...this was my original point.
USA:
Canada:
Are there other minor factors that may have led the NHL to pick two Canadian cities for their hubs? Sure, of course. But come on...if you don't think the total failure by the US in containing this thing played a role in that decision then your head is up your ass. Las Vegas and Dallas were considered the "frontrunners" at one point. I wonder what happened in those two places that took them out of contention?
For the most part I don't think it matters where you put your sports team whether it is Orlando or Toronto as much as how well they manage the bubble. At end of day all these players, coaches, umpires and management are coming from all over the place. A couple infected people get into the bubble and now you got a confined crowd & it really doesn't matter where the hotel is located.
So what I think will matter most going forward is how good the league is at creating a bubble, who and how many people outside of players/referees they let into the bubble or even come close to the bubble, and how they manage the bubble at end of day. In some respects it seems logical that should be easier say for NBA vs NHL/MLS/MLB and say NHL/MLS/MLB vs NFL by shear number of players you have to field and control.
But It will also be interesting to see if the under one rough or one bubble idea that NBA & MLS pursued works better than say having hubs or just simply doing the empty stadium. Once again, I assume the single bubble would work best but it also creates a confined environment that could get out of control in a heartbeat..
So what I think will matter most going forward is how good the league is at creating a bubble, who and how many people outside of players/referees they let into the bubble or even come close to the bubble, and how they manage the bubble at end of day. In some respects it seems logical that should be easier say for NBA vs NHL/MLS/MLB and say NHL/MLS/MLB vs NFL by shear number of players you have to field and control.
But It will also be interesting to see if the under one rough or one bubble idea that NBA & MLS pursued works better than say having hubs or just simply doing the empty stadium. Once again, I assume the single bubble would work best but it also creates a confined environment that could get out of control in a heartbeat..
^ Not a bad point at all. And while team operations are coming in from all over the place, they have been under stricter requirements than the rest of us too. But the arena, hotel and lower level workers that are not going to be traveling with teams could still pose a risk. And I'd argue that risk is greater in Orlando than in Toronto.
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I'd also think there's more necessary hockey infrastructure in Edmonton/Toronto than Orlando & Las Vegas.sc4mayor wrote: ↑Jul 21, 2020^ Not a bad point at all. And while team operations are coming in from all over the place, they have been under stricter requirements than the rest of us too. But the arena, hotel and lower level workers that are not going to be traveling with teams could still pose a risk. And I'd argue that risk is greater in Orlando than in Toronto.
^ Compared to Orlando yes...but Orlando doesn’t have a hockey team anyway. But Las Vegas has the newest and most up to date building in the league, UNLV has rinks, and the hotel accommodations are probably better in Vegas than anywhere else...US or Canada. Probably why they were a front runner in the beginning.
Not completely true. T-Mobile Arena actually opened in April 2016, but the Golden Knights didn't begin play there until October 2017, because they didn't exist prior to the 2017-18 season. Rogers Place in Edmonton opened in September 2016, so it is technically a little newer than T-Mobile Arena. Detroit's Little Caesars Arena opened in September 2017, and it is the newest arena in the NHL. As for T-Mobile Arena being the most up-to-date, maybe. But Rogers Place and Little Caesars Arena are both pretty top notch facilities in their own right.sc4mayor wrote: ↑Jul 21, 2020But Las Vegas has the newest and most up to date building in the league
^ I did forget about Little Ceasers. Can you blame me though? The Red Wings have basically been nonexistent for the last few years lol...but it honestly doesn't make much of a difference. AAC in Toronto, or whatever it's called now, opened in 1999. Age of the buildings doesn't matter. The NHL needed rinks and hotel rooms. Vegas (and the other US cities that were at one time or another in the running, STL included) have all that...and the US didn't get any of it.
Does Cordish have some sort of partnership with Little Caesars Arena? I noticed there's a Sports & Social Detroit built right into the facility...
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^ Yes. Supposed to be a big "village" type development around it. Not going too hot though:
https://www.crainsdetroit.com/real-esta ... delivering
I take that back. After reading that, Cordish was originally going to partner on the residential portion, not the entire District development. But they have backed out it sounds like.
https://www.crainsdetroit.com/real-esta ... delivering
I take that back. After reading that, Cordish was originally going to partner on the residential portion, not the entire District development. But they have backed out it sounds like.
There have been serious discussions about high-rise buildings with Baltimore-based Cordish Cos. in the past. But that was before the developer of what it calls “Live!” mixed-use districts around sports arenas quietly stopped working with the Ilitches last year, according to sources familiar with the matter. Crain’s reported Cordish’s departure in September.
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I just meant for practice/training facilities. WDW has converted a convention hall at Coronado Springs into at least 4 full size courts. You can't just plop down ice wherever there's room. And, you (presumably) need more down time in between Team A and Team B's practice sessions to recuperate the ice. And with +50% more players per roster (23 to 15), that's more space needed, as well.sc4mayor wrote: ↑Jul 21, 2020^ Compared to Orlando yes...but Orlando doesn’t have a hockey team anyway. But Las Vegas has the newest and most up to date building in the league, UNLV has rinks, and the hotel accommodations are probably better in Vegas than anywhere else...US or Canada. Probably why they were a front runner in the beginning.
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Regarding previous posts talking about how much Edmonton’s skyline has grown, keep in mind they have a huge advantage.
BIG energy companies!
Look at what Devon built in OKC.
BIG energy companies!
Look at what Devon built in OKC.
^^ There wouldn't be a need to "plop down ice" wherever. The idea was using local rinks for practice, with the arenas for games. Look at St. Louis for example. Centene has four sheets of ice, Maryville has two or three. Never mind the single sheets all over the region. Same can be said for plenty of other US cities...especially those with NHL teams. Every team has a separate practice facility with a sheet or two of ice (or more)...they don't use their arenas for that.
The Golden Knights practice facility has two additional sheets. The Las Vegas Ice center has another two sheets, the Pepsi Ice Arena has another. That's 5 NHL sized sheets not even counting their arena (I bet there are probably a few more too). Only takes a few minutes to cut the ice (my best friend is the operations manager at a large ice center here in Missouri), so there isn't much downtime at all in terms of preparing the ice for the next group. The downtime will be disinfecting everything like locker rooms and that's going to be an issue no matter where they go.
Yeah...Canada has more rinks, that goes without saying. But that wasn't what I was originally trying to say. The NHL wanted Vegas in the beginning...they knew the rink situation then too. But that's really beside my point...Vegas was just an example since they were the NHL's front runner in the beginning. There are plenty of other US cities with far more rinks and more than enough hockey infrastructure...like Chicago, which was on the NHL's shortlist too...
The Golden Knights practice facility has two additional sheets. The Las Vegas Ice center has another two sheets, the Pepsi Ice Arena has another. That's 5 NHL sized sheets not even counting their arena (I bet there are probably a few more too). Only takes a few minutes to cut the ice (my best friend is the operations manager at a large ice center here in Missouri), so there isn't much downtime at all in terms of preparing the ice for the next group. The downtime will be disinfecting everything like locker rooms and that's going to be an issue no matter where they go.
Yeah...Canada has more rinks, that goes without saying. But that wasn't what I was originally trying to say. The NHL wanted Vegas in the beginning...they knew the rink situation then too. But that's really beside my point...Vegas was just an example since they were the NHL's front runner in the beginning. There are plenty of other US cities with far more rinks and more than enough hockey infrastructure...like Chicago, which was on the NHL's shortlist too...
The District Detroit is (or perhaps was) a massive multi-billion dollar development, spanning something like 50 city blocks - it's not just all the area around Little Caesars Arena, it's also the area around Comerica Park, Ford Field and the Fox Theater. It's basically the entire north end of downtown Detroit.sc4mayor wrote: ↑Jul 21, 2020^ Yes. Supposed to be a big "village" type development around it. Not going too hot though:
https://www.crainsdetroit.com/real-esta ... delivering
I take that back. After reading that, Cordish was originally going to partner on the residential portion, not the entire District development. But they have backed out it sounds like.
There have been serious discussions about high-rise buildings with Baltimore-based Cordish Cos. in the past. But that was before the developer of what it calls “Live!” mixed-use districts around sports arenas quietly stopped working with the Ilitches last year, according to sources familiar with the matter. Crain’s reported Cordish’s departure in September.
Very ambitious project which the Ilitch family (Little Caesars, Red Wings, and Tigers owners) has a very big hand in, but it's moving at glacial speed right now. My guess is the COVID-19 pandemic is only going to make matters worse.