I would bet $20 that the 1,000 person "waiting list" was / is actually just the "tell me more" list of prospects. If there was that level of demand, where people were actually waiting for a unit to open up, then Two Light would have been doubled in height to meet that demand. I signed up for the 1CW list when they first launched the site over a year ago and I get plenty of marketing emails from them.
Could you clarify what you mean by "the first year had about 40% turnover"? Do you mean 40% of the leases were not renewed AFTER the first year? Not sure how there could be turnover in the middle of the year for a one-year lease, unless you imagine a lot of evictions and people breaking leases, which I assume isn't what you meant.dbehrens011 wrote: ↑Feb 10, 2020My sources says it was about 65-70% pre-leased and it was fully absorbed (100% leased) about 5 months after opening. The first year had about 40% turnover too, which I feel like OCW will have about the same or even higher. So at this pace, OCW is leasing a bit faster than One Light in my opinion.
I'm sure it is. Also... are the pre-leases just people who have placed down the $300 deposits, or is it people who are contractually bound to a one-year leases and all of the expenses that entails? More precisely, if any of the pre-leases changed their mind right now, are they on the hook for more than just the $300 deposit they put down? Just curious, because it's a lot easier to walk away when all you're going to lose is $300 than to walk away when you're facing thousands of dollars in charges for a broken lease.chaifetz10 wrote: ↑Feb 10, 2020I would bet $20 that the 1,000 person "waiting list" was / is actually just the "tell me more" list of prospects. If there was that level of demand, where people were actually waiting for a unit to open up, then Two Light would have been doubled in height to meet that demand. I signed up for the 1CW list when they first launched the site over a year ago and I get plenty of marketing emails from them.
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40% after one year the first year of stabilization (100% leased).DTGstl314 wrote: ↑Feb 10, 2020Could you clarify what you mean by "the first year had about 40% turnover"? Do you mean 40% of the leases were not renewed AFTER the first year? Not sure how there could be turnover in the middle of the year for a one-year lease, unless you imagine a lot of evictions and people breaking leases, which I assume isn't what you meant.dbehrens011 wrote: ↑Feb 10, 2020My sources says it was about 65-70% pre-leased and it was fully absorbed (100% leased) about 5 months after opening. The first year had about 40% turnover too, which I feel like OCW will have about the same or even higher. So at this pace, OCW is leasing a bit faster than One Light in my opinion.
I don’t know what it means. I just copied and pasted the numbers from business journal articles.chaifetz10 wrote:I would bet $20 that the 1,000 person "waiting list" was / is actually just the "tell me more" list of prospects. If there was that level of demand, where people were actually waiting for a unit to open up, then Two Light would have been doubled in height to meet that demand. I signed up for the 1CW list when they first launched the site over a year ago and I get plenty of marketing emails from them.
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I also think 53% is fairly strong for now. For what it's worth, Cordish's Vice President of development, Nick Benjamin, told the BJ in December of last year OCW was on pace to open 100% leased. We'll see if that holds true, my guess is it will be a bit shy of that but likely still pretty solid.chaifetz10 wrote: ↑Feb 10, 2020Sounds like the top floors of 1CW are nearly gone, so that's similar. And the leasing numbers aren't that far off - I don't think anyone has had a chance to move in yet. Let's see where the numbers are at Grand Opening, as that's a different milestone than 1CW's current "under construction" status.
I get the angst here on people wanting this to be 100% leased asap (there's an assumption that if the numbers are really strong then 2CW will be announced - but so far that's nothing more than our assumptions), but it still has a few months when it officially opens before getting too deep in the %s. I view the numbers we have (53%) as being fairly strong. Now, if it's still at 53% come Grand Opening or Opening Day for the Cardinals, then I'll join you in having concerns.
https://www.bizjournals.com/stlouis/new ... on-at.htmlOne Cardinal Way is projected to open in the second quarter of 2020, and officials on Wednesday held a ceremonial topping out for the facility. The building's apartments are on pace to be 100% leased when the tower opens, said Nick Benjamin, vice president of development at Cordish.
Looks like somebody finally took the plunge to put a little over $95K in Bill DeWitt's pocket to borrow 2,600 square feet of penthouse living for one year - "The Cardinal" (29th & 30th floor, 2bd/2ba) has been reserved and is no longer available.chaifetz10 wrote: ↑Feb 10, 2020Sounds like the top floors of 1CW are nearly gone, so that's similar. And the leasing numbers aren't that far off - I don't think anyone has had a chance to move in yet. Let's see where the numbers are at Grand Opening, as that's a different milestone than 1CW's current "under construction" status.
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If TCW will be between 360-430 Ft that would be great Downtown only has 2 400 footers I also wouldn’t mind a TL design however not another PWC design to me it’s way to conservative of a design need some edge and character other than thatElek.borrelli wrote:I know I have done this before, but here is what I hope BPV will look like fully built out (take all of this with a grain of salt). From what I have been told, Two Cardinals Way will be designed by HOK, which is my reasoning behind the more inspiring design (there is no confirmation of this fact, it is just a rumor). It is a little over 380 feet tall (think One Hundred) and will be a Hotel / Residential combo with the first 8-stories being parking. The lot North of OneLife will be a Two Light style apartment building roughly 260 feet tall with a 5-story parking podium. The North-Western lot will be a 250 foot office building of similar design to the PWC Pennant building. It will have 12-stories of office on top of 8-stories of parking; however, I added a crown as the leaked BPV phase III renderings showed an office building with similar ornamentation. Hopefully, this peaks some of your interest as I like envisioning projects like this.
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When they decide to unveil TCW, you can already get a sense of the look of the architecture style by looking at three light. Cordish likes to keep their buildings with the same architectural firm which will be Hord,Coplan,Macht. They will not go a very new design downtown like 100 because of the surrounding architecture of the downtown area. If you even look at the new MLS stadium has more of the look of the Kennedy center architecture.
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This is only my observation on this development as it finishes up. While I’m no expert im just very passionate about St Louis and what it will become as our future progresses. These are only my thoughts
While I’m not in love with the PWC Building it adds much needed new office space and I’m convinced it will eventually lease out.
While Live By Loew’s hasn’t opened yet this shall activate more pedestrian activity at ground level and I actually like the design of it
One Life Fitness while small is a building I like as well shall and will add to neighborhood
Now One Cardinal Way while not as daring as 100 I actually love this building this adds some height 334’ and is the crown jewel
Of this entire phase most of all much needed residents while I’m not expecting this to be fully leased once open anything is possible.
People let’s be real this is not Power and Light District and anyone trying to compare the both need to stop they are completely different in their own respective retrospect.
Once phase 2 is all done this will significantly add more life to this area.
I’ll give this development an over all grade of A-
Once phase 2 commences then the anticipation for phase 3 enters the development forefront.
What can we expect could it be shorter in height or exceed One Cardinal Way?
Anything is possible.
I’ll take today’s downtown vs the 90s and early 2000s
Downtown St Louis has come a very long ways and will only improve.
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While I’m not in love with the PWC Building it adds much needed new office space and I’m convinced it will eventually lease out.
While Live By Loew’s hasn’t opened yet this shall activate more pedestrian activity at ground level and I actually like the design of it
One Life Fitness while small is a building I like as well shall and will add to neighborhood
Now One Cardinal Way while not as daring as 100 I actually love this building this adds some height 334’ and is the crown jewel
Of this entire phase most of all much needed residents while I’m not expecting this to be fully leased once open anything is possible.
People let’s be real this is not Power and Light District and anyone trying to compare the both need to stop they are completely different in their own respective retrospect.
Once phase 2 is all done this will significantly add more life to this area.
I’ll give this development an over all grade of A-
Once phase 2 commences then the anticipation for phase 3 enters the development forefront.
What can we expect could it be shorter in height or exceed One Cardinal Way?
Anything is possible.
I’ll take today’s downtown vs the 90s and early 2000s
Downtown St Louis has come a very long ways and will only improve.
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For future phases of BPV, I would be fine with 2 Cardinal Way and then have the other two lots built on as 1 and 2-floor buildings capable of supporting future construction on top. Get the ground level activated then build over time. There's enough parking in PwC, One, and presumably Two to support two blocks of just retail and restaurants.
Plus, this idea is far better than having two parking lots just sitting there
Plus, this idea is far better than having two parking lots just sitting there
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Maybe me putting $30,600 for 1800 SF penthouse into Lawerence Groups pocket seem like a stealDTGstl314 wrote: ↑Feb 11, 2020Looks like somebody finally took the plunge to put a little over $95K in Bill DeWitt's pocket to borrow 2,600 square feet of penthouse living for one year - "The Cardinal" (29th & 30th floor, 2bd/2ba) has been reserved and is no longer available.chaifetz10 wrote: ↑Feb 10, 2020Sounds like the top floors of 1CW are nearly gone, so that's similar. And the leasing numbers aren't that far off - I don't think anyone has had a chance to move in yet. Let's see where the numbers are at Grand Opening, as that's a different milestone than 1CW's current "under construction" status.
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I only count 40 units available on their website. Would put the rate up over 80%. Am I missing something?
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I’m not trying to start anything but why are people over on the KC rag trashing STL on Downtown & BPV? All I have to say is don’t judge a 5-6 phase development on its first phase which is only 100,000 square feet of entertainment. I’ve personally have never heard anyone complaining about BPV. Once phase 2 commence’s then we can all judge. Either way I still take Downtown St Louis today over the Downtown St Louis 15 years ago.
It’s my apologies if so just don’t understand the dislike of St Louis on the other side of the state It’s very childish
#I
STL
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It’s my apologies if so just don’t understand the dislike of St Louis on the other side of the state It’s very childish
#I
STLSent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
I’d suggest just paying not much attention to that site. There isn’t a a whole lot on it that matters to STL and visa versa. Most anything big that is going on there will probably be posted by one of them in the KC thread on this site.PlatinumBlues wrote: ↑Feb 18, 2020I’m not trying to start anything but why are people over on the KC rag trashing STL on Downtown & BPV? All I have to say is don’t judge a 5-6 phase development on its first phase which is only 100,000 square feet of entertainment. I’ve personally have never heard anyone complaining about BPV. Once phase 2 commence’s then we can all judge. Either way I still take Downtown St Louis today over the Downtown St Louis 15 years ago.
It’s my apologies if so just don’t understand the dislike of St Louis on the other side of the state It’s very childish
#I
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I commented over there about why I don't like One Cardinal Way much. It seems a bit dark. Maybe it will change when completed, but it's pretty dark. The sidewalk experience along Broadway is also going to suck because of how it's a majority blank wall.
I've lived in KC for a little over 12 years and I'm leaving for STL in about 3 weeks. You should hear what they're saying to me lol. Either way don't take it personally, that's just the way they are over here...always have been. Like Pittsburghers with Philadelphia. There's not a whole lot of urban density in KC so if they want to claim their little Cordish development is better than the 7 or 8 other little Cordish developments that's fine by me. I do, however think OCW is significantly nicer looking than either One or Two Light. I think Three Light will be the best of their bunch whenever it shows up.PlatinumBlues wrote: ↑Feb 18, 2020It’s my apologies if so just don’t understand the dislike of St Louis on the other side of the state It’s very childish
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When I lived in KC, people bashed and talked negatively about STL every single day. I thought it was funny at times because most people have no opinion of KC or they support them whenever possible (sports, development, etc). It’s the exact opposite for KC people. However, at times I would also question and ask them why their city is much better to continuously bash STL. Most people didn’t have real reasons and some are very oblivious to KC crime/problems and their rankings on top 10 lists.sc4mayor wrote:I've lived in KC for a little over 12 years and I'm leaving for STL in about 3 weeks. You should hear what they're saying to me lol. Either way, don't take it personally, that's just the way they are over here, always have been. Like Pittsburghers with Philadelphia. There's not a whole lot of urban density in KC so if they want to claim their little Cordish development is better than the 7 or 8 other little Cordish developments that's fine by me. I do, however think OCW is significantly nicer looking than either One or Two Light. I think Three Light will be the best of their bunch whenever it shows up.PlatinumBlues wrote: ↑Feb 18, 2020It’s my apologies if so just don’t understand the dislike of St Louis on the other side of the state It’s very childish
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Napoleon syndrome.PlatinumBlues wrote: ↑Feb 18, 2020I’m not trying to start anything but why are people over on the KC rag trashing STL...
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Yeah I found it a tad bit disturbing however if that’s what will make them feel good then so be it. Anyways hopefully the PWC building will eventually be fully occupied
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From what I heard residents like OCW design, straight lines with the mix of glass and concrete.
Nothing too crazy or out of the ordinary.
Nothing too crazy or out of the ordinary.
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I personally find OCW to be an attractive building it’s definitely what downtown needs right nowGary5071 wrote:From what I heard residents like OCW design, straight lines with the mix of glass and concrete.
Nothing too crazy or out of the ordinary.
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dbehrens011 wrote: ↑Feb 18, 2020When I lived in KC, people bashed and talked negatively about STL every single day. I thought it was funny at times because most people have no opinion of KC or they support them whenever possible (sports, development, etc). It’s the exact opposite for KC people. However, at times I would also question and ask them why their city is much better to continuously bash STL. Most people didn’t have real reasons and some are very oblivious to KC crime/problems and their rankings on top 10 lists.sc4mayor wrote:I've lived in KC for a little over 12 years and I'm leaving for STL in about 3 weeks. You should hear what they're saying to me lol. Either way, don't take it personally, that's just the way they are over here, always have been. Like Pittsburghers with Philadelphia. There's not a whole lot of urban density in KC so if they want to claim their little Cordish development is better than the 7 or 8 other little Cordish developments that's fine by me. I do, however think OCW is significantly nicer looking than either One or Two Light. I think Three Light will be the best of their bunch whenever it shows up.PlatinumBlues wrote: ↑Feb 18, 2020It’s my apologies if so just don’t understand the dislike of St Louis on the other side of the state It’s very childish
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I actually really like the dark charcoal color it makes it stand out more and contrasts with the rest of the development. Its not the 100, but it is a handsome building. Though it would have been nice to activate the Broadway facade.chriss752 wrote: ↑Feb 18, 2020I commented over there about why I don't like One Cardinal Way much. It seems a bit dark. Maybe it will change when completed, but it's pretty dark. The sidewalk experience along Broadway is also going to suck because of how it's a majority blank wall.