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PostDec 17, 2019#2076

MDFB is very petty. Taylor family are much better than this and I’m sure they’ll find a way to keep the funding as private as possible without taking from the city. I’m no expert but I do think construction will still go on as planned even if there may be a minor delay besides both the Taylor family and the city want to see bulldozers and cranes as soon as possible


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PostDec 18, 2019#2077

I don't think we know how much MoDOT is asking for the 20+ acres it's selling that are absolutely required for this project, do we?  Are they giving it away, or asking market rate value?  Or has a price even been negotiated yet?  Seems to me that the answer to that question is pretty important to the discussion of how much MDFB tax credits they should receive.

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PostDec 18, 2019#2078

urbanitas wrote:
Dec 18, 2019
I don't think we know how much MoDOT is asking for the 20+ acres it's selling that are absolutely required for this project, do we?  Are they giving it away, or asking market rate value?  Or has a price even been negotiated yet?  Seems to me that the answer to that question is pretty important to the discussion of how much MDFB tax credits they should receive.
MoDOT is suppose to sell or lease for fair market value

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PostDec 18, 2019#2079

The idea that this would become a major issue in the gubernatorial race next year is downright laughable.

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PostDec 18, 2019#2080

^I don't know, have you noticed the relative size of the sports and politics sections in Missouri newspapers?

I mean, I think you're right, but the idea isn't completely preposterous. It ain't Texas and Football, but . . . people get bent about their games around here. I might disagree, but Gone Corporate is no slouch. He does his homework.

On the other hand, I'm not sure how many votes a Parson-of-a* governor really has to lose around here anyway. Maybe one or two of my cousins. But probably not enough to be consequential.

*Son of a righteous blackmailed beatch and her high holy smackdown? Son of a guns, gays, and god voter following the Trump-et call? Son of a basket of deplorables feeling the Bernie flu? There are so many options.

. . . but none of those options are football stadia or financial holes chewed in the foundation by the lingering infestation of poly-tic-mites.

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PostDec 18, 2019#2081

The Taylors could always go the reverse-nuclear option and threaten to pull Enterprise out of Missouri if they don't get the funding (barring that them doing that is extremely unlikely to happen).

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PostDec 18, 2019#2082

dbInSouthCity wrote:
Dec 18, 2019
urbanitas wrote:
Dec 18, 2019
I don't think we know how much MoDOT is asking for the 20+ acres it's selling that are absolutely required for this project, do we?  Are they giving it away, or asking market rate value?  Or has a price even been negotiated yet?  Seems to me that the answer to that question is pretty important to the discussion of how much MDFB tax credits they should receive.
MoDOT is suppose to sell or lease for fair market value
True, but they are also supposed to remediate, demo, and clean up the site before they turn it over, which in this case...well, let's just hope we don't have to wait for MoDOT to do that or the MLS team will be playing in Busch Stadium for years.

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PostDec 18, 2019#2083

^It seems to me that is part of the reason the actual stadium location moved north of Market, because the land was more suitable to build on quickly.

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PostDec 18, 2019#2084

addxb2 wrote:
Dec 17, 2019
I dont believe this project will fall apart over $24m. MLS has been forgiving to Miami. MLS2STL counted the money before the deal was closed.
Plus Nashville is having a number of issues and I don't see the MLS threatening them with losing their team.

https://www.tennessean.com/story/news/l ... 384216002/

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PostDec 18, 2019#2085

Ebsy wrote:
Dec 18, 2019
The idea that this would become a major issue in the gubernatorial race next year is downright laughable.
It's very easy to do so, Ebsy: Think outside of sports and more towards general economic development. 

The support from the MDFB was a pledge to a business to establish itself in MO and build hundreds of millions of dollars in new facilities, that was originally pledged full economic support by the Governor's economic development team, and at the last hour is being pulled back, blindsiding the new company's leadership. Specific allocations were announced. The Governor himself stood out in front, including to MLS Commissioner Garber personally, to claim supporting credit for this venture and new investment in Missouri. Then, at the last minute, after all the confirmations were made and the ink was dry, the MDFB clawed back their end of the deal, out of the clear blue sky. 

What if this happened to General Motors in Wentzville? 
Fear of such a thing is now tangible and reasonable, because it's happening before our damn eyes. 

The Governor's administration stepped in, made a promise, took credit, and withdrew their pledge at the last damn minute... How the living eff are we supposed to bring new businesses to Missouri, let alone Saint Louis, if the state government cannot keep its word to local business? More than that, two of the largest private companies in the US, both of which are HQ'd in MO? 

Let's remember that these credits are to go to the remediation of the 22nd Street Parkway site, a failed State-owned highway spur which has been little more than a dirt dumping ground from the widening of 64/40 a decade ago. It's current condition is innately prohibitive to both new investment and proximate neighborhood stabilization. For God's sake, it's an Enterprise Zone and TWO Opportunity Zones in the middle of Downtown West! And let's absolutely not forget all of this is part of the reconstruction of the Jefferson Avenue Bridge anyways, in support of the new NGA West HQ. This land, which is producing ZERO tax revenues, is being bought for Fair Market Value by the ownership group. The State's financial support was to allow the site to be built upon new, after decades of neglect and more than ten years of dumped dirt forming a stupid mound in the middle of it. 

For all those who think the Taylors and Kavanaugh can just find another $20MM to throw at it? Yeah, maybe. They would hate it. They won't give up on everything, but I know they're pretty damn livid right now. And if I was them, I'd begin allocating just as much money MDFB is now shorting them into supporting Galloway's campaign to unseat Parson as Governor. 

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PostDec 18, 2019#2086

Since this a tax credit being requested - return of some of the tax money that will be generated by the project - the state would lose big time if the project did something radical like move right across the River and get a tax credit from Illinois.

But more likely, the Taylor’s will find $20M in cuts to the initial design that it could restore later. Busch III had no right field escalators for a couple of years. People used the ramps or the Left field escalators.


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PostDec 18, 2019#2087

gone corporate wrote:
Dec 18, 2019
For all those who think the Taylors and Kavanaugh can just find another $20MM to throw at it? Yeah, maybe. They would hate it. They won't give up on everything, but I know they're pretty damn livid right now.
They absolutely can find another $20 million.  They're collectively worth over $6 billion.  Whether or not they would want to is an open question and they may be upset about it, but I don't expect this to put the project in jeopardy.

I also doubt very much they were caught off guard by MDFB...this is Missouri after all.  My guess is this will be a minor hiccup along the way and not much more.  And I really don't think this will unseat Parson nor be a large campaign issue.  Missouri Republicans don't care about St. Louis City.  To think this will swing Missouri's overwhelmingly conservative electorate is a pretty big assumption.  Those people will vote for whomever has the (R) behind their name, economic development be damned.  The state's most liberal city getting shot down by Jeff City gets a lot of these people off.

I don't recall Parson or any other state official specifically promising $30 million to the project either.  If I'm understanding this correctly the MDFB isn't allowed to issue credits over it's cap unless it gets special permission from several cabinet members and those cabinet members were Grietens holdovers, so that really shouldn't have come as a surprise considering his stance on the previous plan for a downtown stadium.

Also worth mentioning that people are wising up to the whole public money for stadium scams, especially in St. Louis after the Rams debacle.  For the record I totally support the $30 million ask for this project, as it would be used to clean up land that the state has been using (poorly) for decades now.  But in today's climate where ignorant people just read a headline on Facebook without bothering to read into it any further, all they see is a group of billionaires getting a tax handout.  I can certainly appreciate you framing this as a large company making an investment, but at the end of the day it's a stadium, and your average person is going to see it as such.  People on UrbanSTL are educated and care enough to actually know what is going on here and how all this works...to think your average Missouri voter will care (or even understand) like we do is giving them far, far too much credit.

EDIT:  Team spokesperson says this is unlikely to cause any delay in terms of construction:
The board has an annual cap of $10 million for contribution tax credits. Because the city’s request exceeded that amount, the board needed authorization from state Director of Economic Development Rob Dixon, as well as two other cabinet members.  Miserez said the board did not get that authorization, and therefore would not have been able to take any action. Dixon could not be reached for comment.
A team spokesman said Monday that any delay in issuing tax credits is not likely to push back construction.
https://news.stlpublicradio.org/post/st ... -are-limbo

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PostDec 18, 2019#2088

Ben Frederickson of the STL Post-Dispatch, who has been tweeting about this withdrawal of support for the last day, pointedly referenced an article written by Jacob Barker on August 25th: ‘Clearly a better deal’: City taxpayers’ opposition to 2017 MLS stadium plan worked out in long run

From the article: 
Missouri Gov. Mike Parson’s administration, too, has signaled it is on board, a reversal from former Gov. Eric Greitens’ accusation that using state tax credits for the proposed 2017 stadium was “welfare for millionaires.” The St. Louis Land Clearance for Redevelopment Authority, part of SLDC, has already approved a measure to apply for $30 million in state tax credits from the Missouri Development Finance Board to aid in the stadium financing.

Lt. Gov. Mike Kehoe, who was at Tuesday’s announcement and whose late uncle was St. Louis soccer legend Bob Kehoe, sits on the MDFB board. He told the Post-Dispatch that he and Parson have “a great relationship” with Krewson and “we’ll absolutely be a partner going forward. There’s no doubt in my mind.”
The issue is that these monies were pledged, then withdrawn at the last minute after all other commitments were made. It's important to really recognize that these tax credits were to fund infrastructure improvements around the stadium's footprint, and not for the construction of the stadium itself. This fact has been long established and had not been contested until the time when the MDFB meeting was cancelled. 

Again, it's not that the Governor up and changed his mind, but that his administration's picks on the MDFB (legacy from Greitens) denied what the Governor and the Lieutenant Governor had pledged. This sends a very bad message to businesses considering STL & MO for new operations. It's very damaging politically. 

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PostDec 18, 2019#2089

^ I still see nothing in there that they pledged the full $30 million.  Just some political speak about good relationships and being a partner going forward.  I'm not giving any of these folks a pass, but considering that tax credit request was higher than MDFB's cap maybe someone should have reached out to Rob Dixon and those other cabinet members to see what their thoughts were instead of taking some vague politician speak at face value.  I mean, even at $6 million, they're still technically a "partner."

Again, to reiterate because there seems to be some confusion here, the MDFB did not shoot this down, they attempted to get approval from three of Parson's cabinet members to go over the cap.  When they were informed that those cabinet members (those are the holdovers from the previous administration) would not give them that approval, they simply called off the meeting.  MDFB never even took a vote.

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PostDec 18, 2019#2090

Edit:  Moved my reply to the MLS Stadium and District thread  where it belongs.  😉 

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PostDec 19, 2019#2091

Ben Frederickson, St. Louis Post-Dispatch: Sticking to sports, Missouri governor Parson is the worst kind of teammate

This article succinctly lays all of these issues out, and he's not pulling his punches. Solid write-up. 

Also, question for the Mods... Is this article and line of conversation better in this thread or in the Downtown thread like Urbanitas re-routed his comments? 
Seeking clarity for future participation. Thanks

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PostDec 19, 2019#2092

gone corporate wrote:
Dec 19, 2019
Ben Frederickson, St. Louis Post-Dispatch: Sticking to sports, Missouri governor Parson is the worst kind of teammate

This article succinctly lays all of these issues out, and he's not pulling his punches. Solid write-up. 

Also, question for the Mods... Is this article and line of conversation better in this thread or in the Downtown thread like Urbanitas re-routed his comments? 
Seeking clarity for future participation. Thanks
I have understood this thread as the discussion of getting the MLS team and things that go with that like team names, brands, logos, colors, etc. I see the other thread as pertaining to the building, construction and development of the stadium itself. So with that in mind, I would say the article belongs in the other thread. 

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PostDec 20, 2019#2093

gone corporate wrote:
Dec 19, 2019
Ben Frederickson, St. Louis Post-Dispatch: Sticking to sports, Missouri governor Parson is the worst kind of teammate

This article succinctly lays all of these issues out, and he's not pulling his punches. Solid write-up. 

Also, question for the Mods... Is this article and line of conversation better in this thread or in the Downtown thread like Urbanitas re-routed his comments? 
Seeking clarity for future participation. Thanks
I was referring to the stadium construction schedule discussion, not your post.  But this is the Sports forum, so I agree with LArchitecture that this thread should be for the MLS league and the soccer team.  Business and political discussions are a bit of a grey area of course, but I think anything to do with development and construction of any building project in the city should go in one of the city forums:  Downtown, Central, North, or South.

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PostDec 27, 2019#2094

I believe this is a direct slap in the face to the City of St. Louis.    Republican senators (especially out state)  love to stick it to the Dem controlled City of St Louis anytime they can.
And less just tick off two very large Missouri based companies while we are at it.   One that employs over 5,000 Missourians and by the way  many of those corporate jobs 
are high dollar jobs. 

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PostJan 08, 2020#2095

St. Louis MLS club looks to NFL for key business hire

St. Louis' Major League Soccer expansion franchise has hired one of its first key executives to lead business operations, the Business Journal has learned.

Dennis Moore, a longtime sales and marketing executive with the National Football League's Denver Broncos, is coming to St. Louis as chief revenue officer of #MLS4TheLou, the name of the club's ownership group.

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PostJan 09, 2020#2096



could this possibly be an issue? City requires a public vote to sell a city park, Part of the stadium appears to be in Aloe Plaza west park....yes the city really considers it a park

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PostJan 09, 2020#2097

dbInSouthCity wrote:
Jan 09, 2020


could this possibly be an issue?  City requires a public vote to sell a city park,   Part of the stadium appears to be in Aloe Plaza west park....yes the city really considers it a park
Could they just not sell it? City keeps that land? Now it becomes a park plaza?

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PostJan 09, 2020#2098

Maybe they'll do the ole' switcheroo and make a bit of ground along 20th that's not the stadium the park of equal or greater size.

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PostJan 09, 2020#2099

jshank83 wrote:
Jan 09, 2020
dbInSouthCity wrote:
Jan 09, 2020


could this possibly be an issue?  City requires a public vote to sell a city park,   Part of the stadium appears to be in Aloe Plaza west park....yes the city really considers it a park
Could they just not sell it? City keeps that land? Now it becomes a park plaza?
I guess, If that end of the stadium doesn’t extend into the park land but it looks awfully tight

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PostJan 09, 2020#2100

^ Looks like they may have taken that into consideration.


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